Road subways

[Pete from Boston]

In 1894, there were no streetcar tunnels in Massachusetts, but construction of the Tremont St. subway (opened 1897) may have been underway.  Underground heavy rail transit was a ways off.  The only railroad tunnels in the Commonwealth at the time would have been for regular heavy rail.

[odditude]

Not even the bus rapid transit line is called a subway, because subway necessarily means train here.

Either that or a popular fast-food chain, but I digress. While many large cities do have subway lines, the only one I've ever been aware of that actually describes its system as such is the New York MTA. Other places, like Washington, call it Metro.

Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority uses "Subway". http://www.mbta.com/schedules_and_maps/subway/

Except nobody calls it that. Unless things have changed recently, it's the T.

Expanding slightly outside the US, Toronto's rapid transit lines are referred to as the Subway, both officially and colloquially.

Are there any cities in the US other than New York that colloquially uses the term "subway" for their underground rail line? DC uses Metro.

Locals in Philly refer to the Broad St Line and the depressed portion of the Market-Frankford Line as the subway. (The remainder of the Market-Frankford Line is elevated and referred to as the El.)

[TheStranger]

Are there any cities in the US other than New York that colloquially uses the term "subway" for their underground rail line? DC uses Metro.

Locals in Philly refer to the Broad St Line and the depressed portion of the Market-Frankford Line as the subway. (The remainder of the Market-Frankford Line is elevated and referred to as the El.)

The co-routed BART & MUNI Metro line in downtown San Francisco uses the Market Street Subway (which includes several stations that are MUNI-only), and the under-construction MUNI Metro tunnel along 4th and Stockton Streets for the T-Third line is the Central Subway.

[english si]

I was thinking this thread would be about pedestrian underpasses beneath roads. I can't help but think that stuff like this.

[empirestate]

I was thinking this thread would be about pedestrian underpasses beneath roads. I can't help but think that stuff like this.

It's about them now, at least in areas where the term isn't standard. I had thought there were a good helping of them in the States, but almost nobody here seems to have even heard of them. In fact, I'm surprised (and interested) by the number of remarks that seem to suggest subways can't refer to anything without rails!


iPhone

[Revive 755]

A section of Fairchild Street in Danville, IL, used to be referred to as "the subway."  Streetview

It has since been replaced by a more conventional overpass.

[Bruce]

The Battery Street Tunnel in Seattle (carrying US 99 and later SR 99 at the north end of the viaduct) was once known as the Battery Street Subway. Would have been confusing had the proposed subway here actually been approved and built, but that never happened.

[empirestate]

A section of Fairchild Street in Danville, IL, used to be referred to as "the subway."  Streetview

It has since been replaced by a more conventional overpass.

Since the StreetView and Google 3D imagery were captured you mean? Do you have a picture of what replaced it?

No, I don't have a legal definition, but that's the way people tend to use the term. Wikipedia and Wiktionary agree with me, though official dictionaries do not. See also this discussion: http://www.city-data.com/forum/urban-planning/1513095-can-you-call-underground-light-rail.html

Quite a few...interesting assertions in that forum thread, huh? 

Anyhow, yeah, I don't think there's any disagreement on what the word means the vast majority of the time in the U.S. My only question was whether by "supposed to" you meant "ought to", implying some kind of prescriptive source like the above-referenced (and evidently unfounded) legal assertion, but I see you just meant "presumed to".

But in its most fundamental sense, there's nothing in the word "subway" that connotes rail travel or even public transit of any mode. It is quite simply "sub-" (meaning "under") + "way" (a way of passage or travel), so any facility that allows any kind of passage by going beneath or below something would be a subway. For many people, the only things they will ever in their lives hear referred to as subways will involve trains, but there's still no semantic requirement that they do.

[cl94]

A section of Fairchild Street in Danville, IL, used to be referred to as "the subway."  Streetview

It has since been replaced by a more conventional overpass.

Since the StreetView and Google 3D imagery were captured you mean? Do you have a picture of what replaced it?

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1387781,-87.6140862,3a,29.1y,303.27h,87.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk493k4lc7Hc9tIRJaCVsOg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Pete from Boston]

I was thinking this thread would be about pedestrian underpasses beneath roads. I can't help but think that stuff like this.

It's about them now, at least in areas where the term isn't standard. I had thought there were a good helping of them in the States, but almost nobody here seems to have even heard of them. In fact, I'm surprised (and interested) by the number of remarks that seem to suggest subways can't refer to anything without rails!

Is this exclusive predominantly the case in places with rapid transit subways?  It's my experience that where that's the case, that's all "subway" means.

[empirestate]

I was thinking this thread would be about pedestrian underpasses beneath roads. I can't help but think that stuff like this.

It's about them now, at least in areas where the term isn't standard. I had thought there were a good helping of them in the States, but almost nobody here seems to have even heard of them. In fact, I'm surprised (and interested) by the number of remarks that seem to suggest subways can't refer to anything without rails!

Is this exclusive predominantly the case in places with rapid transit subways?  It's my experience that where that's the case, that's all "subway" means.

I'm not sure I quite follow the question, but yes; typically where "subway" means a rapid transit system, it very rarely means a pedestrian undercrossing or a roadway. But apparently the term isn't completely exclusive in those areas, and it's those rare exceptions that I'm specifically looking for here. In fact, it looks like Boston is a good spot to find multiple uses of the term: we've got the parts of the T that are subway, we've got the Harvard Square bus tunnel (an ex-trolley subway), and reports of some pedestrians subways at places like Roslindale station.

[roadman65]

What is the nature of the Senate Subway in Washington, DC?  Is a train or a walkway that goes underground from the Capitol to the Offices of the US Senate?

[cl94]

What is the nature of the Senate Subway in Washington, DC?  Is a train or a walkway that goes underground from the Capitol to the Offices of the US Senate?

Both. Train runs alongside the walkway.

[roadman65]

What is the nature of the Senate Subway in Washington, DC?  Is a train or a walkway that goes underground from the Capitol to the Offices of the US Senate?

Both. Train runs alongside the walkway.

Sounds like the Atlanta Airport.

I guess though for the sake of this topic, Subways are generally for trains and not underground roads, or walkways even though the name could fit it.

[Pete from Boston]

What is the nature of the Senate Subway in Washington, DC?  Is a train or a walkway that goes underground from the Capitol to the Offices of the US Senate?

I just looked at a picture of this for the very first time.  It is quite something to see members of the nation's highest deliberative body tooling about in what looks like an amusement park kiddie-train ride.

[cl94]

What is the nature of the Senate Subway in Washington, DC?  Is a train or a walkway that goes underground from the Capitol to the Offices of the US Senate?

I just looked at a picture of this for the very first time.  It is quite something to see members of the nation's highest deliberative body tooling about in what looks like an amusement park kiddie-train ride.

The House Subway is very similar. Of course, you can't get anywhere near them now with the security restrictions.

[empirestate]

I guess though for the sake of this topic, Subways are generally for trains and not underground roads, or walkways even though the name could fit it.

For Americans, anyway. What apparently happened is that one or two subways become enormously well-known across the country, and since they happened to be the type that carries trains, it was the train-carrying aspect that became the most closely associated with the word, even though it's not an aspect actually reflected in the term's origin. That's why New Yorkers will refer to elevated portions of the transit system as part of the "subway", even though it isn't underground.

This didn't happen in England, since the word "subway" wasn't widely applied to their version of America's best-known subway. So in that country, I guess the term most often connotes pedestrians tunnels; but in that case it's really the tunnel itself that's evoked by the term rather than the fact that they're generally walked through. That's presumably why Londoners don't refer to all sidewalks as "subways", even though sidewalks are also walked upon.

[1995hoo]

The planners of DC's tube system made an effort to get people to say "Metro" because they were afraid the term "subway" would conjure images of New York's system, which was at its nadir in the 1960s and 1970s due to crime and graffiti, and that people would then refuse to ride.

[cl94]

The planners of DC's tube system made an effort to get people to say "Metro" because they were afraid the term "subway" would conjure images of New York's system, which was at its nadir in the 1960s and 1970s due to crime and graffiti, and that people would then refuse to ride.

"Metro" sounds so...um...prissy, as in "we're better than you, so we call it the metro"

[thenetwork]

Back to "subways" used by vehicular traffic:

The Fearing Boulevard "Subway" (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6403831,-83.593643,1257m/data=!3m1!1e3) is a stretch of road in Toledo on US-24 (Old US-25) where the road travels under 7 railroad overpasses (some since abandoned) in less than a mile.

It was built as the Fearing Street Subway a little over 100 years ago, and to my knowledge -- outside of possible streetcars, there has been no trains which traversed Fearing Street.

[Pete from Boston]

I guess though for the sake of this topic, Subways are generally for trains and not underground roads, or walkways even though the name could fit it.

For Americans, anyway. What apparently happened is that one or two subways become enormously well-known across the country, and since they happened to be the type that carries trains, it was the train-carrying aspect that became the most closely associated with the word, even though it's not an aspect actually reflected in the term's origin. That's why New Yorkers will refer to elevated portions of the transit system as part of the "subway", even though it isn't underground.

This didn't happen in England, since the word "subway" wasn't widely applied to their version of America's best-known subway. So in that country, I guess the term most often connotes pedestrians tunnels; but in that case it's really the tunnel itself that's evoked by the term rather than the fact that they're generally walked through. That's presumably why Londoners don't refer to all sidewalks as "subways", even though sidewalks are also walked upon.

Indeed, In Boston the first subway (first in the hemisphere) was in fact a cut-and-cover run of a few blocks to get streetcars off the most congested part of Tremont Street.  It was not any kind of network of full underground train lines.  This fits a little more with the old British sense of the word than our modern idea does.

[empirestate]

Back to "subways" used by vehicular traffic:

Oh right, I almost forgot. :-)

The Fearing Boulevard "Subway" (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6403831,-83.593643,1257m/data=!3m1!1e3) is a stretch of road in Toledo on US-24 (Old US-25) where the road travels under 7 railroad overpasses (some since abandoned) in less than a mile.

It was built as the Fearing Street Subway a little over 100 years ago, and to my knowledge -- outside of possible streetcars, there has been no trains which traversed Fearing Street.

That looks surprisingly un-subterranean, even imagining all the missing overpasses. From the StreetView, it scarcely seems to dip below grade.

[vtk]

Apparently these underpasses were called subways, and they carried vehicular traffic, but I walked through two of them and they were probably less than 12 feet wide...

[empirestate]

Apparently these underpasses were called subways, and they carried vehicular traffic, but I walked through two of them and they were probably less than 12 feet wide...

Gosh, yeah, they do look quite skinny for vehicles! I can't even find the E. 79th St. one; does it still exist?