Jackie Robinson Pkwy safety improvements

[route17fan]

D262685 are plans for safety improvements along the Jackie Robinson Pkwy - I suppose this means bye-bye to the button copy here too.

https://www.dot.ny.gov/doing-business/opportunities/const-contract-docs?p_d_id=D262685

[Mergingtraffic]

D262685 are plans for safety improvements along the Jackie Robinson Pkwy - I suppose this means bye-bye to the button copy here too.

https://www.dot.ny.gov/doing-business/opportunities/const-contract-docs?p_d_id=D262685

Wasn't the button copy there reflective?

[route17fan]

The last I was there, granted 2009, there was some between exits 8-6. And you're right, the rest was reflective.

[cl94]

Yeah, a decent amount of the button copy in Regions 10 and 11 is reflective. Lots of signs and a relatively small amount have been replaced. That being said, the Jackie Robinson needs the work. The current state is nothing short of a death trap. Why the heck Moses routed it there is something I cannot determine.

[route17fan]

Agreed.

Specifically, I was thinking of this assembly from GSV:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.712482,-73.83455,3a,75y,42.04h,91.75t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1saf6BvwKeA1Q2N2MePq2Qfw!2e0

It's double sided

[cl94]

Agreed.

Specifically, I was thinking of this assembly from GSV:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.712482,-73.83455,3a,75y,42.04h,91.75t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1saf6BvwKeA1Q2N2MePq2Qfw!2e0

It's double sided

Always loved that one. Didn't love that the lanes were narrower than an SUV or pickup truck eligible for non-commercial plates.

[Zeffy]

Agreed.

Specifically, I was thinking of this assembly from GSV:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.712482,-73.83455,3a,75y,42.04h,91.75t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1saf6BvwKeA1Q2N2MePq2Qfw!2e0

It's double sided

Two things:

1. What is the definition of a New York Parkway? I always thought parkways were scenic filled with trees and whatnot. Of course, that can be because the Garden State Parkway is pretty much just what I described.

2. Why is there a highway running THROUGH an arterial with jersey barriers? Those lanes look incredibly small - and it's amazing that it occupies the middle of another road. Is that a one-time thing, or is that common within NYC?

[cl94]

Agreed.

Specifically, I was thinking of this assembly from GSV:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.712482,-73.83455,3a,75y,42.04h,91.75t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1saf6BvwKeA1Q2N2MePq2Qfw!2e0

It's double sided

Two things:

1. What is the definition of a New York Parkway? I always thought parkways were scenic filled with trees and whatnot. Of course, that can be because the Garden State Parkway is pretty much just what I described.

2. Why is there a highway running THROUGH an arterial with jersey barriers? Those lanes look incredibly small - and it's amazing that it occupies the middle of another road. Is that a one-time thing, or is that common within NYC?

I'll answer each question individually:

1. A New York parkway is an early expressway designed by Robert Moses that only accommodates passenger cars. As most were built before WWII, modern design standards did not exist. Most were designed to get people out of the City and to scenic areas in Westchester or on the Island. Supposedly, RM designed the overpasses extremely low so poor people couldn't take the bus to the beach, most of which were built with their only access via parkways. Outside of NYC, parkways tend to be scenic, with stone overpasses and trees blocking all development from the road. The Jackie Robinson does run through a park, but this was not feasible in the eastern half.

2. This is NOT the norm. Typically, the expressway is depressed beneath the arterial, in rare occasions elevated. The Grans Central Parkway, for example, has service roads cantilevered over the parkway. For the JRP, this was not feasible. Both the LIRR and NYC Subway run immediately beneath the roadbed at or near Queens Boulevard, preventing use of a cut. Forest Hills and Kew Gardens, both wealthy neighborhoods, fought long and hard against it, so Moses was unable to push a better road through there. Additionally, it has a design speed of 35 mph, common among the early parkways, as it was meant for leisurely drives to and from parks. As we all know, that didn't last long.

[SidS1045]

Let's not forget another aspect of the answer to item 1:  Robert Moses never obtained a driver's license.  He was chauffeured everywhere and never looked out the windows of his limos, preferring to spend his time working instead.  Thus, he never realized that his roads had become commuting routes and were often clogged with traffic, even during off-peak hours.

Robert Caro, the author of the Moses bio The Power Broker, recalled arriving late for one of his few interviews with Moses.  He told Moses he was delayed by a traffic backup on one of the arterials Moses had built.  RM's answer to that was: "Impossible!"

[D-Dey65]

One other thing; When the Jackie Robinson/Interborough Parkway was originally built, it was proposed to run south of Jamaica Avenue towards the Belt Parkway. Another road that was unfinished and rendered dysfunctional.

[NE2]

One other thing; When the Jackie Robinson/Interborough Parkway was originally built, it was proposed to run south of Jamaica Avenue towards the Belt Parkway. Another road that was unfinished and rendered dysfunctional.

Right. If it had been extended, the sharp curves and narrow right-of-way would have been magically fixed.


As for "a highway running THROUGH an arterial", see the Bruckner east of the Sheridan.

[Alps]

One other thing; When the Jackie Robinson/Interborough Parkway was originally built, it was proposed to run south of Jamaica Avenue towards the Belt Parkway. Another road that was unfinished and rendered dysfunctional.

The plans I saw always ended it at the Bushwick Expressway.

[D-Dey65]

Right. If it had been extended, the sharp curves and narrow right-of-way would have been magically fixed.

No, it would've just gotten rid of that dead end at Jamaica Avenue.

The plans I saw always ended it at the Bushwick Expressway.

That's funny. The Interborough and Belt Parkways were built before the expressways. I can't imagine a pre-WW2 era parkway terminating at a more modern, not yet conceived expressway.

[Alps]

Right. If it had been extended, the sharp curves and narrow right-of-way would have been magically fixed.

No, it would've just gotten rid of that dead end at Jamaica Avenue.

The plans I saw always ended it at the Bushwick Expressway.

That's funny. The Interborough and Belt Parkways were built before the expressways. I can't imagine a pre-WW2 era parkway terminating at a more modern, not yet conceived expressway.

It just so happened that the Bushwick would have run right by the current terminus. Imagine that. Now show some evidence of your extension claim? NYCRoads says that such an extension was considered in 1963, decades after the road was built AND decades after consideration of the Cross-Brooklyn Expressway terminus.

[D-Dey65]

Right. If it had been extended, the sharp curves and narrow right-of-way would have been magically fixed.

No, it would've just gotten rid of that dead end at Jamaica Avenue.

The plans I saw always ended it at the Bushwick Expressway.

That's funny. The Interborough and Belt Parkways were built before the expressways. I can't imagine a pre-WW2 era parkway terminating at a more modern, not yet conceived expressway.

It just so happened that the Bushwick would have run right by the current terminus. Imagine that. Now show some evidence of your extension claim? NYCRoads says that such an extension was considered in 1963, decades after the road was built AND decades after consideration of the Cross-Brooklyn Expressway terminus.

Woah! Chill out, Steve! I'm not calling you a liar here. I'm just saying extending it to the Belt Parkway seemed like the more likely scenario at the time.

BTW, speaking of Steve Anderson's site, did anybody else have trouble going to any of his pages a few days ago? Because I did.

[Roadgeek Adam]

Right. If it had been extended, the sharp curves and narrow right-of-way would have been magically fixed.

No, it would've just gotten rid of that dead end at Jamaica Avenue.

The plans I saw always ended it at the Bushwick Expressway.

That's funny. The Interborough and Belt Parkways were built before the expressways. I can't imagine a pre-WW2 era parkway terminating at a more modern, not yet conceived expressway.

It just so happened that the Bushwick would have run right by the current terminus. Imagine that. Now show some evidence of your extension claim? NYCRoads says that such an extension was considered in 1963, decades after the road was built AND decades after consideration of the Cross-Brooklyn Expressway terminus.

Woah! Chill out, Steve! I'm not calling you a liar here. I'm just saying extending it to the Belt Parkway seemed like the more likely scenario at the time.

Stop. Steve called you out on wanting some evidence (physical evidence).  Not that you called him a liar.

By the lack of response, just like on Wikipedia, you are missing evidence you don't have.

[D-Dey65]

Stop. Steve called you out on wanting some evidence (physical evidence).  Not that you called him a liar.

By the lack of response, just like on Wikipedia, you are missing evidence you don't have.

I'm basing this on what I've seen on maps of Brooklyn. That and the abrupt no-bridge interchange with Jamaica Avenue, as well as the usual road construction trends at the time. In the meantime, let me quote one other line from Steve's website (bold words mine):

"In 1963, Moses proposed a 3.4-mile-long southern extension of the Interborough Parkway through southeast Brooklyn. The $30 million extension, which was to be routed through the East New York, New Lots and Starrett City communities, was scheduled for completion in 1976."

I'm sure you already know Starrett City can be found along the Belt Parkway.

[NE2]

1935=1963.

[vdeane]

BTW, speaking of Steve Anderson's site, did anybody else have trouble going to any of his pages a few days ago? Because I did.

The site was being moved to a new server.

[D-Dey65]

Hey, people; Dig this map:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:30_years_of_progress,_1934-1964_-_Department_of_Parks_-_300th_anniversary_of_the_City_of_New_York_-_New_York_World%27s_Fair._(1964)_(16478136350).jpg

[Alps]

Hey, people; Dig this map:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:30_years_of_progress,_1934-1964_-_Department_of_Parks_-_300th_anniversary_of_the_City_of_New_York_-_New_York_World%27s_Fair._(1964)_(16478136350).jpg

I just emitted a string of words that can't be repeated on this forum. Damn. I wonder if the spur off the Deegan at I-95 is just representing the Highbridge interchange, or if there was really envisioned some sort of bypass for that whole cluster.