Interstate 81 in Syracuse

[roadman65]

Well, yeah, the tunnel in Syracuse isn't happening. I've accepted that. I don't see why we need to accept Breezewood. That can should be fixed and should not be accepted. I don't know anything about I-99.

Breezewood will never get worked on by PTC and PennDOT in this lifetime. So you can accept it.

I-99 is a number out of grid written into law and nor AASHTO signing. Plus an egotistical congressman who picked the number while naming the road after himself.

[webny99]

Passed through the southern I-81/I-481 project area this weekend and I can see why northbound traffic is prone to backing up during busy travel periods. It's reconfigured with the left lane for I-81 NB only and right lane for I-481 NB only. Ironically, that would be fine if through traffic was already defaulting to I-481, but with current travel patterns, the majority of traffic is merging to the single left lane to stay on I-81. The through lane on I-81 is also quite narrow and passes through the heart of the interchange being reconstructed around it, so there's no doubt plenty of drivers braking for conditions and slowing down to gawk. After all, it's not often you see that large of an interchange reconstruction in NY - even I-390/I-490/NY 31 a while back didn't look nearly so dramatic while under construction. It would be quite cool if it wasn't for the impending doom of the viaduct teardown.

[sprjus4]

Well, yeah, the tunnel in Syracuse isn't happening. I've accepted that. I don't see why we need to accept Breezewood. That can should be fixed and should not be accepted. I don't know anything about I-99.

The only issues I can think of with I-99 is the interchange with the I-76 / Pennsylvania Turnpike being a "Breezewood-like", and the interchange with I-80 having an at-grade intersection.

The northern interchange is going to be  completely reconstructed to feature flyover ramps and a proper system interchange.

Aside from these two things, nothing is wrong with I-99. The highway is perfectly adequate for the traffic volumes it carries and areas it serves. Some roadgeeks & grid perfectionists have an issue because it's not numbered "properly" but that is a minority group and it doesn't change anything about the physical infrastructure. The number has been established for more than 20 years now, and it's not going to be changed.

[roadman65]

When this entire project gets completed, will drivers actually use the realigned I-81? Or will many still use Old I-81 and Future BL I-81 like they do now?

I'm sure the GPS won't change. If it routes people now completely along I-81, it will continue to do so unless the GPS will factor in the new signals to change its calculations. Even with the lights, if it's still shorter than present day I-481, of course it will Route people along current I-1 later.

[kalvado]

When this entire project gets completed, will drivers actually use the realigned I-81? Or will many still use Old I-81 and Future BL I-81 like they do now?

I'm sure the GPS won't change. If it routes people now completely along I-81, it will continue to do so unless the GPS will factor in the new signals to change its calculations. Even with the lights, if it's still shorter than present day I-481, of course it will Route people along current I-1 later.

GPS programs take a lot more than distance into account. There is road type,  typical fuel bern per mile etc.

With all that, there is not that much traffic going through the city along I-81 to begin with... 

[machias]

Heh.  Residents of Pulaski consider the interchanges partial...

As a native of the Pulaski area, I know the local folklore is they fought hard for that split interchange. The southbound exit used to be signed "NY 13" up until the signs were replaced in 1992 (from the 1973 or '74 button copy signs) and now they just say "Pulaski" without a route number or road name. NYSDOT also took all the "To NY 13" way finding signs down through town at that time.

Sandy Creek/Lacona (current Exit 37) is split the same way, with NB at CR 15/Harwood Drive and SB at CR 22A/Salisbury St. Although the two halves are much closer together than Exit 36.

[sprjus4]

When this entire project gets completed, will drivers actually use the realigned I-81? Or will many still use Old I-81 and Future BL I-81 like they do now?

I'm sure the GPS won't change. If it routes people now completely along I-81, it will continue to do so unless the GPS will factor in the new signals to change its calculations. Even with the lights, if it's still shorter than present day I-481, of course it will Route people along current I-1 later.

Not sure about I-81 traffic, but traffic going from I-81 North to I-90 West will likely stick with the new business route... the interstate routing is far out of the way and will add at least 10 minutes.

[vdeane]

Not sure about I-81 traffic, but traffic going from I-81 North to I-90 West will likely stick with the new business route... the interstate routing is far out of the way and will add at least 10 minutes.

Between traffic lights and the lack of a direct interchange between BL 81 and I-690 (aside from the ramps from I-690 west to BL 81 north and BL 81 south to I-690 east, the only access will be via the Crouse/Irving interchange a couple blocks east), doing that could easily add 10 minutes over current travel times too.

[sprjus4]

Not sure about I-81 traffic, but traffic going from I-81 North to I-90 West will likely stick with the new business route... the interstate routing is far out of the way and will add at least 10 minutes.

Between traffic lights and the lack of a direct interchange between BL 81 and I-690 (aside from the ramps from I-690 west to BL 81 north and BL 81 south to I-690 east, the only access will be via the Crouse/Irving interchange a couple blocks east), doing that could easily add 10 minutes over current travel times too.

If there's direct connection to I-81 north of downtown (I imagine there would be - but I have not looked at the plans specifically), then one could follow I-81 North to I-90 West directly for traffic going Rochester-bound.

Given the added 10-15 minute travel time for the westbound movement, I wonder how much traffic will also simply opt to take I-86 to I-390 given its only 15-20 minutes longer today... that difference would only be a few minutes post I-81 removal, and also bypass the toll on I-90.

[vdeane]

If there's direct connection to I-81 north of downtown (I imagine there would be - but I have not looked at the plans specifically), then one could follow I-81 North to I-90 West directly for traffic going Rochester-bound.

Direct in the sense that staying on BL 81 will take you there, not so direct in that you'll have to shimmy over a few blocks on Erie (the boulevard replacing the viaduct uses Almond, the tie-in to the freeway uses Oswego/Pearl; come to think about it, getting on I-690 at Irving and then taking the freeway ramp back to BL 81 is also an option!).

[webny99]

I'm trying to be as optimistic as possible but I still think there's no way around a roughly 5-minute increase in travel times between Rochester and Binghamton. I won't go so far as to say it's guaranteed to be 10-15 minutes more - partly because the Thruway<>I-481 freeway route is only 8-9 minutes longer currently and that should stay the same the majority of the time, and partly because it's "wait and see" as to how traffic will flow on the boulevard. If the lights are timed properly, it's really not that long a stretch on the boulevard. From a pure distance and speed perspective, it could probably be done in about 2-3 minutes longer that the current viaduct, but the light timing and traffic are MASSIVE x-factors.

Given the added 10-15 minute travel time for the westbound movement, I wonder how much traffic will also simply opt to take I-86 to I-390 given its only 15-20 minutes longer today... that difference would only be a few minutes post I-81 removal, and also bypass the toll on I-90.

It's probably still going to come down to start/endpoint in the Rochester area with most of the area favoring I-90 to future I-81 except possibly the southernmost exurbs (Rush/Scottsville/Avon). I-390/I-86 is just considerably more mileage, especially from anywhere east of the I-390/I-590 split. So even if the worst case scenario unfolds in Syracuse, the Thruway to future I-81 is likely still going to be recommended for most, if not all of the Rochester metro. Having to backtrack to I-390/I-590 is a deal-breaker for much of the eastern metro, and not having a direct freeway south out of downtown Rochester doesn't help matters.

The viaduct removal will, however, reinforce NY 400<>US 20A<>NY 36<>I-390 as the preferred route from the southern Buffalo metro to Binghamton, and make that route more attractive for the northern Buffalo metro, Niagara Falls and Southern ON.

[Rothman]

Buffalo to Binghamton doesn't seem like a route that's in high demand.

[kalvado]

Buffalo to Binghamton doesn't seem like a route that's in high demand.

Any better options for Buffalo to NYC other than JetBlue?

[Rothman]

Buffalo to Binghamton doesn't seem like a route that's in high demand.

Any better options for Buffalo to NYC other than JetBlue?

Amtrak

[kalvado]

Buffalo to Binghamton doesn't seem like a route that's in high demand.

Any better options for Buffalo to NYC other than JetBlue?

Amtrak

Did you try that? I did ALB-BUF a few times.... When the travel department told me so. Driving when I could choose.
You should also mention Greyhound (at least they are closer to schedule).
But now try those with a few thousand pounds of cargo...

[webny99]

Buffalo to Binghamton doesn't seem like a route that's in high demand.

It would be considered such in 49 of 50 states, considering it's the largest to 8th largest city upstate AND the primary route from Niagara Falls and Southern ON to the majority of the east coast megalopolis, including NYC, Philly, and Baltimore.

[kalvado]

Buffalo to Binghamton doesn't seem like a route that's in high demand.

It would be considered such in 49 of 50 states, considering it's the largest to 8th largest city upstate AND the primary route from Niagara Falls and Southern ON to the majority of the east coast megalopolis, including NYC, Philly, and Baltimore.

"8th largest city upstate" sounds pretty much like "and remember to bring your microscope"

[webny99]

Buffalo to Binghamton doesn't seem like a route that's in high demand.

It would be considered such in 49 of 50 states, considering it's the largest to 8th largest city upstate AND the primary route from Niagara Falls and Southern ON to the majority of the east coast megalopolis, including NYC, Philly, and Baltimore.

"8th largest city upstate" sounds pretty much like "and remember to bring your microscope"

That's NYC ick. 

[vdeane]

Pretty much all traffic going between NYC/Philly and Rochester/Buffalo/Syracuse/Finger Lakes/Niagara Falls/Toronto goes through Binghamton, so even if Binghamton isn't big enough to warrant major connections on its own (although how big a place needs to be to be considered important enough for good highway connectivity in and of itself to matter seems to vary state to state), all the longer-distance routings that pass through it should be considered in any analysis.

[Rothman]

Hm.  Connection between Buffalo to NYC by anything with wheels is a pain because NYC wants to keep Buffalonians out...unless they are able to pay to fly.

[kalvado]

Hm.  Connection between Buffalo to NYC by anything with wheels is a pain because NYC wants to keep Buffalonians out...unless they are able to pay to fly.

On a serious note...
I doubt long haul personal car traffic is a very significant item for any road planning.
But commercial truck traffic probably is.

[roadman65]

It will be interesting to see if the NYTSA will remove Binghamton from its guide at Exit 36 for I-81.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ffaeAVTjm8PubSHJ8

Even with added lights to the route, they may think that the road still goes there, but only the route number changed mentality.

[roadman65]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/DVCnU5dhRPjGVcV36
This sign assembly if it stays post I-81 will be to lower standards than its business loop.  Right now it's signed for local traffic visiting the area rather than long distance traveling.