Flashing Yellow Arrow Right Turn Signal

[kj3400]

I see right arrows and am wondering where left arrows came from.

I'll tell you when you're older.

Thanks dad.

[jakeroot]

I see right arrows and am wondering where left arrows came from.

I'll tell you when you're older.

Thanks dad.

To be fair, your original question, as such, doesn't make sense (not to me, at least).

[kj3400]

I see right arrows and am wondering where left arrows came from.

I'll tell you when you're older.

Thanks dad.

To be fair, your original question, as such, doesn't make sense (not to me, at least).

He was referring to left flashing yellows, when the pic had right flashing arrows, and in my mind I thought he had slipped up. But looking back on it I think I see that he was comparing those arrows to left arrows, but realizing they're not exactly comparable.

[Stephane Dumas]

I saw a video of a flashing yellow arrow right-turn on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MawQRVvocjE

[freebrickproductions]

We have a pair of them here in Huntsville now:
Siemens FYA signals by freebrickproductions, on Flickr
Siemens FYA signals by freebrickproductions, on Flickr

[empirestate]

A rather old thread, but I know the city of New York has a lot of them currently in use. Motorists, of course, are required to yield to pedestrians when they are allowed to cross.

Flashing yellow arrow right-turn signals . . . where?

I said they are in the city of New York; however, I suppose I should be more specific.

Here are some intersections that I know off the top of my head...
Brooklyn, N.Y.
4th and Atlantic Avenues.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.684542,-73.978713,3a,37.5y,125.4h,85.67t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1scoCQti-10pRlizgTrFv3-Q!2e0!5s20130801T000000

Atlantic and Flatbush Avenues.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.684207,-73.977839,3a,15y,124.84h,89.26t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sGoC9eUW7pwNRP-WQ0Lw4XQ!2e0!5s20130801T000000

Amity and Court Streets.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.688421,-73.993225,3a,37.5y,97.59h,93.73t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sWzOwb5Q7dwuLGbqhQV1SGw!2e0!5s20130101T000000

Manhattan, N.Y.
Delancey St. and Bowery. These are four-section traffic signals, so they both serve as protected and flashing right turn signals. The green and amber (steady) arrows are tied to the protected left turn movement for one direction of the Bowery.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.720307,-73.993903,3a,75y,353.66h,87.83t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1soDkMBxpG2QbInoEUsT9Q1w!2e0!5s20140901T000000

Staten Island, N.Y.
A Google image is currently not available, but the new setup could be found at Lily Pond Av. and the entrance ramp for the Verrazano Narrows Br.

Another one is at 10th Ave. and 19th St. in Manhattan: https://goo.gl/maps/9jfRCB593u42

I remember you saying that motorists already have to yield to peds on green lights, so why would the yellow arrow be necessary? While I agree, I can't think of another arrow signal that would indicate that turns can be made in one direction, without stopping, but still requiring the yield to pedestrians. A green arrow should mean this*, but doesn't; where green arrows are used elsewhere in NYC, they coincide with Don't Walk indications for pedestrians.

*I explain why in the general Flashing Left Arrows thread.

[Ace10]

<snip>
I remember you saying that motorists already have to yield to peds on green lights, so why would the yellow arrow be necessary? While I agree, I can't think of another arrow signal that would indicate that turns can be made in one direction, without stopping, but still requiring the yield to pedestrians. A green arrow should mean this*, but doesn't; where green arrows are used elsewhere in NYC, they coincide with Don't Walk indications for pedestrians.

*I explain why in the general Flashing Left Arrows thread.

The yellow right arrow simply instructs right-turning traffic what to do while other signals facing the same side of the intersection can independently tell traffic moving in other directions (through and left) to do something different. Having only a circular green means that the same signal tells through and right-turning traffic that they can go at the same time and can't separately coordinate their movements. The flashing right arrow (or even a signal that shows a protected right turn indication) has the ability of controlling just the right turning movement while simultaneously instructing the traffic going other directions to do something different.

I swear I read somewhere that the MUTCD (or some other document) mandated the use of directional arrow signals over dedicated turn lanes. In that case, you'd have to use a flashing right arrow over a right turn only lane to tell right turning traffic they are permitted to turn but must yield to pedestrians. You couldn't use a circular signal over a dedicated turn lane because, well, it's a dedicated turn lane and needs arrows. At least I thought this was a requirement. I was disappointed when Mississippi built a new intersection and elected not to use the flashing arrow, but then again, things tend to take longer to get to that part of the country I've found.

[roadfro]

^ With the 2009 MUTCD, a dedicated turn-only lane that has separate signal control from adjacent lanes must use an all-arrow display. The key is *separate* signal control. If you had a right turn lane that doesn't have any special turn phasing (i.e. it only is green at the same time as adjacent thru signal), it could still use a circular green.

[jeffandnicole]

I swear I read somewhere that the MUTCD (or some other document) mandated the use of directional arrow signals over dedicated turn lanes.

That would mean that every intersection with a left turn lane and a right turn lane would need its own traffic lights...and due to safety reasons it would need two traffic lights. 

And we're talking almost every intersection.

Clearly that's not the case, nor the intent of the above.

[empirestate]

^ With the 2009 MUTCD, a dedicated turn-only lane that has separate signal control from adjacent lanes must use an all-arrow display. The key is *separate* signal control. If you had a right turn lane that doesn't have any special turn phasing (i.e. it only is green at the same time as adjacent thru signal), it could still use a circular green.

This is what's odd about the flashing signals in my Manhattan example above. In that case, the right turn is the only possible movement, and arrow signals are used presumably to emphasize this fact. Now, if straight were the only possible movement, we'd naturally expect some kind of green indication to be used, either a circle or upward-pointing arrow. A green circular indication already carries the connotation of "yield to pedestrians", even though, in the straight-only scenario, there's no possible pedestrian conflict (other than the hordes of texting zombies that invariably cross Manhattan streets on any signal indication as long as they're not being actively run over).

But when you change the only available movement to be a right turn, now a green arrow indication doesn't work, because the green arrow doesn't indicate "yield to pedestrians". Rather, it suggests you're clear and protected for that right turn movement. So we choose flashing yellow, which for some reason does mean "yield to pedestrians", even when it's arrow-shaped, unlike green, which only means that when it isn't arrow-shaped.

[peterj920]

In Madison, WI there are flashing right turn arrows along US 151 (Washington St) by the East Towne Mall.  The newly reconstructed I-41/Oneida St Interchange in Ashwaubenon, WI has dual right turn lanes from West Oneida St to I-41 north, and both lanes have ground mounted signal with flashing right turn arrows.  On a side note, I've never seen dual signalized right turn lanes onto an on ramp before, that's new to me.  Seen many of them exiting off the freeway. 

[jakeroot]

In Madison, WI there are flashing right turn arrows along US 151 (Washington St) by the East Towne Mall.  The newly reconstructed I-41/Oneida St Interchange in Ashwaubenon, WI has dual right turn lanes from West Oneida St to I-41 north, and both lanes have ground mounted signal with flashing right turn arrows.  On a side note, I've never seen dual signalized right turn lanes onto an on ramp before, that's new to me.  Seen many of them exiting off the freeway.

Do you know if they flash when oncoming traffic has a protected left onto the ramp? When there's a pedestrian crossing, do they go red? Are they ever solid green? Does the oncoming left turn (towards I-41 North) have a permissive phase? (I know Wisconsin has some dual permissive lefts).

Sorry for the loads of questions, I just really want to know. I've always advocated for signalized slip lanes with FYAs, so this is pretty cool.

[JCinSummerfield]

I've read through this thread, and I can't come up with a situation where a flashing yellow right turn arrow is plausible to substitute for a solid green right turn arrow.  What am I missing?

[kj3400]

I've read through this thread, and I can't come up with a situation where a flashing yellow right turn arrow is plausible to substitute for a solid green right turn arrow.  What am I missing?

Pedestrians and conflicting traffic.

[jakeroot]

I've read through this thread, and I can't come up with a situation where a flashing yellow right turn arrow is plausible to substitute for a solid green right turn arrow.  What am I missing?

Pedestrians and conflicting traffic.

And a slip lane with a red signal is basically a stop sign, and a slip lane with a stop sign is ridiculous.

[empirestate]

I've read through this thread, and I can't come up with a situation where a flashing yellow right turn arrow is plausible to substitute for a solid green right turn arrow.  What am I missing?

Pedestrians and conflicting traffic.

Yeah. In the NYC examples, the flashing yellow coincides with a "walk" indication for pedestrians. A green arrow would necessitate a "don't walk".


iPhone

[peterj920]

In Madison, WI there are flashing right turn arrows along US 151 (Washington St) by the East Towne Mall.  The newly reconstructed I-41/Oneida St Interchange in Ashwaubenon, WI has dual right turn lanes from West Oneida St to I-41 north, and both lanes have ground mounted signal with flashing right turn arrows.  On a side note, I've never seen dual signalized right turn lanes onto an on ramp before, that's new to me.  Seen many of them exiting off the freeway.

Do you know if they flash when oncoming traffic has a protected left onto the ramp? When there's a pedestrian crossing, do they go red? Are they ever solid green? Does the oncoming left turn (towards I-41 North) have a permissive phase? (I know Wisconsin has some dual permissive lefts).

Sorry for the loads of questions, I just really want to know. I've always advocated for signalized slip lanes with FYAs, so this is pretty cool.

I went to the signal today in daylight, and observed the signal sequence.  The light is solid red when oncoming traffic has a green arrow.  The light is solid green when traffic traveling straight has a green light as well.  There is a yellow right flashing arrow when traffic coming from I-41 North off ramp has a green light.  Makes sense to have the flashing yellow for that sequence because it's pretty rare that someone is going to go straight on an off ramp back onto the freeway.  Pedestrian signals are not activated yet, but they're going to be push button activated and it will rarely be used since pedestrians very rarely walk in the area. 

[empirestate]

I went to the signal today in daylight, and observed the signal sequence.  The light is solid red when oncoming traffic has a green arrow.  The light is solid green when traffic traveling straight has a green light as well.  There is a yellow right flashing arrow when traffic coming from I-41 North off ramp has a green light.  Makes sense to have the flashing yellow for that sequence because it's pretty rare that someone is going to go straight on an off ramp back onto the freeway.  Pedestrian signals are not activated yet, but they're going to be push button activated and it will rarely be used since pedestrians very rarely walk in the area. 

See, it makes sense to me to have a flashing yellow arrow where there's an activated pedestrian crossing. When the pedestrian pushes the button, the arrow goes solid red. (With No Turn On Red signage, if it's one of those places that interprets red arrows that way.)

[peterj920]

I would think it would be a flashing yellow if a pedestrian would be crossing.  At a standard signalized intersection, the light is normally green, and traffic that is turning right is supposed to yield to pedestrians.  If I ever see a pedestrian there, I can find out what the signal will show.  Before the interchange was reconstructed, there weren't any sidewalks at all.  Pedestrian access is added after reconstruction, but it will still be very rare that a pedestrian will need to cross.  In the Green Bay area, sidewalks and bike lanes have been aggressively added all over the metro area.  There's a very well constructed bike/pedestrian path that is also independently lit from the 4 lane road it parallels.  I haven't seen anyone use that path yet, along with many of the other newly constructed sidewalks and bike paths along major roads.  People do bike and walk in the area, the Fox River and East River Trails are very busy and used a lot.  Since they're also along rivers, there are very few stops along those trails as well, and the bridges on the cross streets cross over the trail as well.  People in the area would much rather walk and bike along a scenic path with few stops than along a busy road.   

[swbrotha100]

There are some flashing yellow arrow right turn signals in the city of Tucson. In almost every case, the flashing yellow arrow replaced what had been a solid green arrow.

[empirestate]

I would think it would be a flashing yellow if a pedestrian would be crossing.  At a standard signalized intersection, the light is normally green, and traffic that is turning right is supposed to yield to pedestrians.  If I ever see a pedestrian there, I can find out what the signal will show.  Before the interchange was reconstructed, there weren't any sidewalks at all.  Pedestrian access is added after reconstruction, but it will still be very rare that a pedestrian will need to cross.

To me, the fact that pedestrians are so rare (and the fact that their signal is button-activated) is all the more reason the arrow should turn red. If you think about an automatic pedestrian signal, flashing yellow makes sense, because even though the ped signal says "walk", that doesn't necessarily mean there's a pedestrian there; it just happens to be that point in the signal's cycle. But with an activated signal, if the signal says "walk" it's because somebody showed up and pushed the button, so there's definitely a pedestrian there; and if there's definitely a pedestrian there then you definitely need to stop. So, you need a red signal of some kind, because the flashing yellow doesn't require a stop.

Another reason would be simply to display an obvious change in circumstances. In this case, the flashing yellow is displayed when the only conflicting traffic is that rare car coming from the left and crossing back onto the freeway, and the driver facing that arrow will become accustomed to that. If the ped signal activation doesn't result in anything different being displayed for the driver, the driver has no indication that anything different has happened that he needs to look out for.

However, perhaps solid red isn't necessarily right; perhaps flashing red would be OK, so that traffic could proceed after the lone pedestrian has cleared, without having to wait for the full cycle to finish. Or if we decide that solid red arrows allow for this, we could use the solid arrow, permitting the motorist to make a right on red after the pedestrian is clear.

[mrsman]

I posted this on antother thread a few months ago.  It's relevant to the topic here:

http://la.streetsblog.org/2015/07/06/dangerous-intersection-of-venice-and-robertson-gets-a-flashing-yellow-signal/

Last November, David Lindley was walking across the street at the five point intersection of Venice and South Robertson Boulevard when he was struck and killed. Lindley, an autistic teen who attended nearby Hamilton High School, was mourned by friends and family who vowed to see the intersection fixed.

...

Over six months after Lindley's tragic death, LADOT recently unveiled its answer to the safety issues created by what one Hamilton High School student described as a "busy, confusing and dangerous"  intersection, a flashing yellow arrow warning drivers to be aware of pedestrians. This is the first time the City of Los Angeles has used this traffic control device, but they are common in other parts of the country. Motorists have shown greater likelihood to yield during a flashing yellow arrow than a red one.

[cl94]

NYSDOT installed a couple on US 20/NY 5 in Geneva at some point. There are 2 heading WB, with one at this intersection and the other at the next intersection. Both were installed after GSV was last through there.

[Sam]

NYSDOT installed a couple on US 20/NY 5 in Geneva at some point ... Both were installed after GSV was last through there.

They went in sometime in July or August. The westbound right turn lanes at Lake and at Castle are 3-section R-Y-FYA. They can't use green arrows because oncoming traffic has FYA left turns now.

GSV of NY 14 is from earlier this summer. You can see the 4-section signal that replaced the doghouse on 5&20 if you look east on Castle St.