Flashing Yellow Arrow Right Turn Signal

[Zmapper]

Do any installations of the flashing yellow arrow for right turns exist? I know the manual references them but I can't think of any locations that have a Flashing Yellow Right Arrow.

[Tarkus]

I'm not aware of any . . . and I'd think the various transportation bodies out there are probably waiting until everyone's fully acclimated to the left-turn FYAs.  We've got a very strong anti-doghouse mentality here in Oregon, though--Washington County especially--so I'd imagine it probably won't be long before that happens.  Give 'em about . . . oh, five minutes and I'm sure they'll have one.

[roadfro]

Well, the right turn version of the FYA was simply made to replace the references to 5-section doghouses and 5-section in-line displays that the MUTCD had for protected-permitted right turns. The thing is, PPRTs are very uncommon due to typical design for circular green, right turn on red and other factors... so it's unlikely that FYA right turns will see much use as the 5-section PPRT display isn't very prevalent now.

[realjd]

I'm struggling to come up with a valid set of circumstances for a flashing yellow right arrow. I'd expect a flashing red right arrow if anything. roadfro, can you give an example of a true need for a PPRT?

[froggie]

Also mentioned previously in the Flashing Yellow Left thread, but there's at least a few flashing yellow right arrows in DC.

[andytom]

I'm struggling to come up with a valid set of circumstances for a flashing yellow right arrow. I'd expect a flashing red right arrow if anything. roadfro, can you give an example of a true need for a PPRT?

I can see it being used where there are push-button pedestrian signals or bike lane signals.

--Andy

[Zmapper]

What about so that every movement can be signalized separately? That way pedestrians or cyclists can have a conflict free interval to cross the street.

Froggie, do you have a photo or link to an intersection that uses a Flashing Yellow Right Arrow?

[roadfro]

I'm struggling to come up with a valid set of circumstances for a flashing yellow right arrow. I'd expect a flashing red right arrow if anything. roadfro, can you give an example of a true need for a PPRT?

There's some locations in Nevada that have PPRT using 5-section vertical signal heads. The few I've seen have been places with a right turn bay/lane that sees heavy volumes during peak hour. The protected phase overlaps with the adjacent protected left movement on the side street and conflicting U-turns are prohibited--so if the PPRT is for the NB RT, the protected green arrow overlaps with the WB LT arrow and WB U-turns are not allowed. Right turn on red still applies, and pedestrian movements have no special phase. So this use works in adding some additional right turn capacity during peak hours, but it's not an essential need for a PPRT.

I really can't think of another good or real valid set of circumstances that would necessitate a PPRT display (FYA not withstanding). The only possibility I can come up with would be a single-lane channelized right turn where there is either unique geometry patterns/sight lines, or there is a desire to signalize the turn due to other abnormal circumstances (high pedestrian counts, adjacent light rail track, or something of that sort).

A PPRT is one of those things that has such limited benefit and use that engineers probably question its effectiveness. In any case, the MUTCD made provisions for it, just in case anyone wants to install PPRTs.

[vtk]

In Ohio, protected right turns are common -- pretty much wherever there's a right-turn-only lane and the cross-street has a protected left phase.  The alternative would be for the right-turn drivers to simply face a red signal during that phase, which would be less efficient as each car has to stop and figure out that the cross-street has a protected left and therefore there's no conflicting traffic.  Also, the green right arrow lets drivers know that, not only do they not have to stop and look for cross-traffic, but there should also be no pedestrians to yield to.  (Pedestrians don't always seem to know or care about this, and I know some drivers think a green light without a crosswalk signal gives them right-of-way over pedestrians, but I digress...)

I imagine the best use of a flashing yellow right arrow might be to emphasize that right-turning traffic still must yield to pedestrians crossing the cross street.  Though, perhaps a flashing yellow ball would work better.  I also happen to think a flashing yellow ball makes more sense for a non-protected left turn versus a flashing yellow arrow or flashing red ball, and perhaps better than a steady green ball if the left turn movement is much separated from the thru lanes and/or has its own signal assembly...

[mtantillo]

Froggie, do you have a photo or link to an intersection that uses a Flashing Yellow Right Arrow?

The entrances to DuPont Circle (outer roadway) from New Hampshire Ave NW.  There is no "green" condition.  You have a red arrow when the pedestrian crosswalks have the "Walk" sign to stop cars when the pedestrians are crossing.  When the pedestrian crosswalks have the "Don't walk", traffic from new Hampshire Avenue has a flashing right yellow arrow (supplemented by some yield signs), because the traffic in the circle has a green ball, and traffic on New Hampshire Avenue must yield to those already in  the circle.  Can't use a green ball, and certainly not a green arrow, because conflicting traffic has a green.  Thus, the flashing yellow tells you to "use caution" (and just like the flashing left arrow, part of using caution means yielding the right of way to oncoming traffic/traffic already in the circle). 

[Alex]

Delaware had two instances of flashing yellows. One was along Delaware 2 (Kirkwood Highway) westbound at Price's Corner/Albertson Boulevard:



The other was at Library Avenue (DE 2 Business/72), East Main Street (DE 2 Business/DE 273) and Kirkwood Highway (DE 2/72) in Newark. Replaced by these mast-arms by 2004.

And since a flashing yellow arrow used because of peds came up, there is a lone flasher along DE 52 (Delaware Avenue) northbound at Adams Street (to the I-95 northbound on-ramp) in Wilmington (still there as of June 11, 2011: Ian's photo):

[roadfro]

I imagine the best use of a flashing yellow right arrow might be to emphasize that right-turning traffic still must yield to pedestrians crossing the cross street.  Though, perhaps a flashing yellow ball would work better.  I also happen to think a flashing yellow ball makes more sense for a non-protected left turn versus a flashing yellow arrow or flashing red ball, and perhaps better than a steady green ball if the left turn movement is much separated from the thru lanes and/or has its own signal assembly...

I suppose that use of a right FYA might be appropriate, especially where the right turn has a separate lane and there is a history of ped/right-turn conflicts. But in most cases, ped traffic isn't so substantial that it would really require a right FYA, especially in a PPRT scenario.

As to the flashing circular yellow, the whole reason to have the arrow is to differentiate between turning movements and general through traffic. Using a yellow ball instead of a left or right arrow for the permitted movement, especially when the through traffic has a red or green, will give conflicting messages to drivers.

The entrances to DuPont Circle (outer roadway) from New Hampshire Ave NW.  There is no "green" condition.  You have a red arrow when the pedestrian crosswalks have the "Walk" sign to stop cars when the pedestrians are crossing.  When the pedestrian crosswalks have the "Don't walk", traffic from new Hampshire Avenue has a flashing right yellow arrow (supplemented by some yield signs), because the traffic in the circle has a green ball, and traffic on New Hampshire Avenue must yield to those already in  the circle.  Can't use a green ball, and certainly not a green arrow, because conflicting traffic has a green.  Thus, the flashing yellow tells you to "use caution" (and just like the flashing left arrow, part of using caution means yielding the right of way to oncoming traffic/traffic already in the circle). 

That seems like a plausible use for a right-turn FYA, assuming the entry link is a single-lane entry yield condition.

Delaware had two instances of flashing yellows. One was along Delaware 2 (Kirkwood Highway) westbound at Price's Corner/Albertson Boulevard:
[snipped picture]

This appears to be permitted only, so with the FYA over the lane it makes sense in a strict MUTCD interpretation. That could easily just be a green ball.

[6a]

In Ohio, protected right turns are common -- pretty much wherever there's a right-turn-only lane and the cross-street has a protected left phase.  The alternative would be for the right-turn drivers to simply face a red signal during that phase, which would be less efficient as each car has to stop and figure out that the cross-street has a protected left and therefore there's no conflicting traffic.  Also, the green right arrow lets drivers know that, not only do they not have to stop and look for cross-traffic, but there should also be no pedestrians to yield to.  (Pedestrians don't always seem to know or care about this, and I know some drivers think a green light without a crosswalk signal gives them right-of-way over pedestrians, but I digress...)

That works well in Ohio because of the general ban on U-turns.  I could imagine another case for the FYA would be in places where U-turns *are* allowed (in Ohio) the cross traffic currently has a 'no turn on red' sign.

[vtk]

I imagine the best use of a flashing yellow right arrow might be to emphasize that right-turning traffic still must yield to pedestrians crossing the cross street. 

I suppose that use of a right FYA might be appropriate, especially where the right turn has a separate lane and there is a history of ped/right-turn conflicts. But in most cases, ped traffic isn't so substantial that it would really require a right FYA, especially in a PPRT scenario.

Right: in most cases, pedestrian traffic isn't substantial.  That's exactly why it makes some sense to emphasize it at intersections where pedestrian traffic is substantial. 

As to the flashing circular yellow, the whole reason to have the arrow is to differentiate between turning movements and general through traffic. Using a yellow ball instead of a left or right arrow for the permitted movement, especially when the through traffic has a red or green, will give conflicting messages to drivers.

That makes sense.  A similar thought occurred to me last night, actually, but then I thought, why not standardize on arrows for through movements as well?  I suppose there could be good arguments on either side of that one.

In Ohio, protected right turns are common -- pretty much wherever there's a right-turn-only lane and the cross-street has a protected left phase.  The alternative would be for the right-turn drivers to simply face a red signal during that phase, which would be less efficient as each car has to stop and figure out that the cross-street has a protected left and therefore there's no conflicting traffic.  Also, the green right arrow lets drivers know that, not only do they not have to stop and look for cross-traffic, but there should also be no pedestrians to yield to. 

That works well in Ohio because of the general ban on U-turns.  I could imagine another case for the FYA would be in places where U-turns *are* allowed (in Ohio) the cross traffic currently has a 'no turn on red' sign.

You're right, the rarity of U-turns here does make it easy to implement protected right turn phases.  (Is it really a statewide ban?  I actually thought it was a Columbus-specific thing, given many intersections near freeway interchanges signed "No U Turn Citywide".)  U-turns are generally unnecessary on most roads in Ohio, however.  Divided highways that have driveway access seem to always provide median crossovers for every driveway, and when a driveway truly is right-in-right-out only, that's almost never the only access to that property.  (This sometimes leads to the annoying situation where your destination is on the left just before a significant crossroad, and your only way in is to turn left at the signal, then go all the way to the far corner of the place's parking lot before you can legally turn left into it.)

Anyway, I thought of another pretty good situation to use flashing yellow right arrow: if there's ever a phase where through traffic has the green, but right turns are not permitted.  Then a flashing yellow arrow would probably be better than a green ball for "permissive" right turns that still must yield to pedestrians, and/or steady green arrow for protected right turns.  mtantillo's DuPont Circle example fits this pattern, though I'm not sure I'd understand that I have to yield to oncoming left-turn traffic if I'm turning right on a flashing yellow arrow unless there's some signage to explain that specific conflict. 

[NE2]

Here there are signs saying 'U-turn yield to right turn'. I don't know if this is state law, but it makes sense.

[agentsteel53]

Here there are signs saying 'U-turn yield to right turn'. I don't know if this is state law, but it makes sense.

that does make sense, because, in general, the right turn would be the one which had to yield if it had red. 

I do not know if I could see the right-turn's protected directional arrow as I was making the U-turn, as sometimes the angles of the traffic lights would prevent it.

[M3019C LPS20]

A rather old thread, but I know the city of New York has a lot of them currently in use. Motorists, of course, are required to yield to pedestrians when they are allowed to cross.

[Zmapper]

A rather old thread, but I know the city of New York has a lot of them currently in use. Motorists, of course, are required to yield to pedestrians when they are allowed to cross.

Flashing yellow arrow right-turn signals . . . where?

[M3019C LPS20]

A rather old thread, but I know the city of New York has a lot of them currently in use. Motorists, of course, are required to yield to pedestrians when they are allowed to cross.

Flashing yellow arrow right-turn signals . . . where?

I said they are in the city of New York; however, I suppose I should be more specific.


Here are some intersections that I know off the top of my head...

Brooklyn, N.Y.

4th and Atlantic Avenues.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.684542,-73.978713,3a,37.5y,125.4h,85.67t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1scoCQti-10pRlizgTrFv3-Q!2e0!5s20130801T000000


Atlantic and Flatbush Avenues.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.684207,-73.977839,3a,15y,124.84h,89.26t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sGoC9eUW7pwNRP-WQ0Lw4XQ!2e0!5s20130801T000000


Amity and Court Streets.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.688421,-73.993225,3a,37.5y,97.59h,93.73t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sWzOwb5Q7dwuLGbqhQV1SGw!2e0!5s20130101T000000


Manhattan, N.Y.

Delancey St. and Bowery. These are four-section traffic signals, so they both serve as protected and flashing right turn signals. The green and amber (steady) arrows are tied to the protected left turn movement for one direction of the Bowery.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.720307,-73.993903,3a,75y,353.66h,87.83t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1soDkMBxpG2QbInoEUsT9Q1w!2e0!5s20140901T000000


Staten Island, N.Y.


A Google image is currently not available, but the new setup could be found at Lily Pond Av. and the entrance ramp for the Verrazano Narrows Br.

[Zmapper]

That's incredibly interesting - thanks for sharing! 

[Alex4897]

Delaware had two instances of flashing yellows. One was along Delaware 2 (Kirkwood Highway) westbound at Price's Corner/Albertson Boulevard:



The other was at Library Avenue (DE 2 Business/72), East Main Street (DE 2 Business/DE 273) and Kirkwood Highway (DE 2/72) in Newark. Replaced by these mast-arms by 2004.

And since a flashing yellow arrow used because of peds came up, there is a lone flasher along DE 52 (Delaware Avenue) northbound at Adams Street (to the I-95 northbound on-ramp) in Wilmington (still there as of June 11, 2011: Ian's photo):

There was a set of flashing yellow rights for the 273 east offramp at the intersection with 4 and Salem Church.

[aztoucan]

Here is one set of them here in the Salt Lake Valley. It is at State and 7720 S. The far 2 right heads are them.
https://www.google.com/maps?q=7720+S+State+St,+Midvale,+UT&hl=en&ll=40.610947,-111.891122&spn=0.002551,0.008256&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=66.574603,135.263672&oq=7720+S+Sta&t=h&hnear=7720+S+State+St,+Midvale,+Utah+84047-3219&z=18&layer=c&cbll=40.610946,-111.891124&panoid=8HSDMummdzwVcYTWHQU7EQ&cbp=11,80.9,,0,-0.12

[wisvishr0]

As someone posted 4 years ago, there are a few in DC. I think most, if not all, of them are in one of the numerous roundabouts/rotaries.

Here's one at the intersection of Dupont Circle and New Hampshire Avenue:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.908957,-77.044037,3a,30.3y,51.23h,87.06t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s6EajKfUm9wvc_xXqWoFDcA!2e0



I can't for the life of me figure out what it does. When I first drove up to it, I assumed you had to yield to other traffic in the circle (because a flashing left arrow means yield). But I waited, and apparently the cars in the circle had a red light, which meant I had the right of way. Maybe you're supposed to yield to pedestrians? But they have their own signal!

I'm pretty sure these were built before flashing left arrows existed, and use the same rules a flashing orb does -- be cautious, but you have the right of way over everyone except pedestrians. That's part of the reason why I don't like flashing left arrows; they're not consistent with flashing yellow orbs. But I guess that's a discussion for the other forum.

If I came up to that intersection in Delaware up above before I read this thread, I'd wait to yield to all other traffic, including left-turning traffic in front of me from across the street, because I thought a flashing yellow arrow meant yield to everyone!

[kj3400]

I see right arrows and am wondering where left arrows came from.

[NE2]

I see right arrows and am wondering where left arrows came from.

I'll tell you when you're older.