Geographical changes in response to SC church shooting?

[froggie]

Assuming it was named in honor of John C. Calhoun of South Carolina, who was U.S. Vice President and died 11 years before the Civil War.

...and was also one of the chief proponents of slavery and the slave trade in Congress.  And went so far as to argue secession while he was in the Senate.

[TheCatalyst31]

Wade Hampton no more: Alaska census area honoring Confederate officer is renamed

Honestly if Alaska hadn't done this, most Americans wouldn't know who Wade Hampton was.

I never understood why it was named after him in the first place; Alaska's about as far from South Carolina as you can get, and Hampton wasn't a major national political figure in the same way as most people who get far-flung counties named for them (and that's before you even get into how closely his political career was associated with violent racism). Kusilvak is a nice locally-inspired name that makes a lot more sense.

[oscar]

Wade Hampton no more: Alaska census area honoring Confederate officer is renamed

Honestly if Alaska hadn't done this, most Americans wouldn't know who Wade Hampton was.

I never understood why it was named after him in the first place; Alaska's about as far from South Carolina as you can get, and Hampton wasn't a major national political figure in the same way as most people who get far-flung counties named for them (and that's before you even get into how closely his political career was associated with violent racism).

Wikipedia (FWIW) indicates the name came from Hampton's son-in-law, who became a territorial judge in Nome and gave Hampton's name to a nearby mining district that ultimately became the census area.

[Henry]

I just had an idea, but it probably won't fly: What if they censored all the Confederate memorials and objects by blurring them like they do private parts on TV? That way, we would be less offended, though we know that they're still there.

[Pete from Boston]

I just had an idea, but it probably won't fly: What if they censored all the Confederate memorials and objects by blurring them like they do private parts on TV? That way, we would be less offended, though we know that they're still there.

It wouldn't fly because it misses the point, that celebrating the symbols of a society built on using a class of people as beasts of burden necessarily implies some endorsement of that practice.  The flag isn't visually offensive, but rather its meaning is offensive, especially to folks who still suffer the consequences of slavery and a hundred years of legal subjugation after it.

[hbelkins]

And that's fine. Nobody says that Jackson was all bad, but in 1928 we had a much less negative view of his impact on the Native Americans than we do today. Back then, we treated the Native Americans like they were barely human. Now they have a real seat at the table in American society, and so we no longer see Jackson the same way. We've grown to see him differently than we did.

And I think the same thing may happen with the Confederacy, its flag, and its leaders.

So is it time to demand that the Democrats rename their annual party dinners, which are called Jefferson-Jackson Day dinners? (Republicans have Lincoln Day dinners, in comparison).

[Pete from Boston]

And that's fine. Nobody says that Jackson was all bad, but in 1928 we had a much less negative view of his impact on the Native Americans than we do today. Back then, we treated the Native Americans like they were barely human. Now they have a real seat at the table in American society, and so we no longer see Jackson the same way. We've grown to see him differently than we did.

And I think the same thing may happen with the Confederacy, its flag, and its leaders.

So is it time to demand that the Democrats rename their annual party dinners, which are called Jefferson-Jackson Day dinners? (Republicans have Lincoln Day dinners, in comparison).

The best thing, of course, would be for everyone regardless of affiliation to take a long hard look at how and when they've chosen to face or ignore centuries of savage treatment of humans, including in the nearly always callous realm of partisan politics is involved. 

When it starts being used as a partisan political lever, it doesn't exactly honor the dehumanization of millions of victims.

[Pete from Boston]

And that's fine. Nobody says that Jackson was all bad, but in 1928 we had a much less negative view of his impact on the Native Americans than we do today. Back then, we treated the Native Americans like they were barely human. Now they have a real seat at the table in American society, and so we no longer see Jackson the same way. We've grown to see him differently than we did.

And I think the same thing may happen with the Confederacy, its flag, and its leaders.

So is it time to demand that the Democrats rename their annual party dinners, which are called Jefferson-Jackson Day dinners? (Republicans have Lincoln Day dinners, in comparison).

The best thing, of course, would be for everyone regardless of affiliation to take a long hard look at how and when they've chosen to face or ignore centuries of savage treatment of humans, including in the nearly always callous realm of partisan politics is involved. 

When it starts being used as a partisan political lever, it doesn't exactly honor the dehumanization of millions of victims.

[golden eagle]

Mississippi has many place names that people could possibly find objectionable. My own high school used to be called the Rebels and also had the confederate flag. The flag was removed in the 1990s, while the Rebels gave way to Patriots sometime during the last decade. Of course, there's the Ole Miss Rebels. While there's been no real movement to change the nickname, the school doesn't officially use the confederate flag, and disassociated itself with the Colonel Reb mascot.

Elsewhere, we have Lee County, Jefferson Davis County and Forrest County. Forrest County is named for Nathan Bedford Forrest, founder of the Ku Klux Klan. In addition, we have the Ross Barnett Resevoir and Paul B. Johnson State Park, both named for segregationist governors.

[SP Cook]

In WV, hardly a Confederate state, applying 20/20 hindsight of modern morals to previous times, would pretty much require us to just number our counties 1-55, just over slavery, let alone whatever historical revision is next demanded.  The way it worked in old Virginia was, as the west was settled, counties were subdivided and whoever was the outgoing governor got the new one named for him (Tennessee and Kentucky are in a similar situation, as is southwestern Virginia, obviously), and almost all governors of old Virginia owned slaves. 

The biographical material for most is pretty thin, but almost all were slave owners.  I come up with at least 22 counties named for slave owners.  That is a low number.

Turning to education, in addition to single school for the whole county high schools named for some of the aforementioned counties, there are several more named for slave owners.  And then there is Marshall University.  John Marshall owned slaves.    And MU has a Jenkins Hall, named for Gen. Albert Gallatin Jenkins, CSA.  The state also maintains his home, Green Bottom, and flies the first Confederate flag there, as it does Grape Hill, the home of Gen. John McCausland, CSA.  Via WVU (and the records are unclear as to the slave owning status of the Woodburn family, which WVU was established on the grounds of a pre-war "female seminary" (a place where people sent off their pregnant unmarried daughters) and which the oldest building is Woodburn Hall) maintains Jackson's Mill, the plantation of Stonewall Jackson.   And then there is Shepherd University, named for Shepherdstown, named for, you guessed it, a slave owner.  And Alderson-Broaddus U, who are the Battlers.  Named for the Battle of Philippi, which the CSA won.

There is still one HS that is the Rebels, all-white Tolsia.  The two historic ones, Mullens, which, post desegregation was in a 40% black town, and Stonewall Jackson, which served the poorer, majority black, part of Charleston, are still around as middle schools, and are still the Rebels. 

And Logan High is the Wildcats.  Not named for the cat (although it uses cat imagery today) but for the Logan Wildcats.  Wildcat being a CSA term from irregular forces (the Kentucky Wildcats are probably likewise so named).

And that leaves out the 1000s of things named for the Grand Kleagle.

Maybe we should let the past lay where it is.

[bandit957]

Some political figures in modern times weren't so great, but they have roads and other public landmarks named for them. I hope this can be corrected.

There is a road that goes through my hometown for which some legislators passed a resolution naming it for a political figure who is much disdained. (I'm not going to say who, because I don't want to start a political debate.) I don't think the state highway department recognized this naming, but it's still disrespectful to me to name the portion of this road through my hometown for him. I can understand if they named the portion through other local communities for him, but not in my town.

Then there are politicians who are really just bad people. I can think of a major road in another state that's named for a still-living politician who truly probably is not a good guy.

[hbelkins]

And Logan High is the Wildcats.  Not named for the cat (although it uses cat imagery today) but for the Logan Wildcats.  Wildcat being a CSA term from irregular forces (the Kentucky Wildcats are probably likewise so named).

Nope. The nickname comes from a description that the team "fought like wildcats" by a sportswriter way back when, in the days when the team didn't have a nickname.

There is a road that goes through my hometown for which some legislators passed a resolution naming it for a political figure who is much disdained. (I'm not going to say who, because I don't want to start a political debate.) I don't think the state highway department recognized this naming, but it's still disrespectful to me to name the portion of this road through my hometown for him. I can understand if they named the portion through other local communities for him, but not in my town.

Why would naming him start a political debate? And who disdains him besides you? And why not in your town? Just because you say so? And why would or should the legislature cater to your personal wishes about what would offend you?

If the General Assembly passed the resolution, then the state highway department most definitely recognizes the naming. I'm involved in the process and I can explain exactly how it works. If the General Assembly passes the resolution, the Transportation Cabinet is directed to install the signage within 30 days unless the sponsoring legislator requests a delay, most often for the purposes of a ceremony. (We had a situation here recently where a bridge was named by legislative resolution, the sign was erected, and then someone requested a dedication ceremony.) In these instances, the state pays for the signage. Once the resolution is introduced in the legislature, a pretty through investigation is done to see if the road or bridge is already named after someone else.

If the legislature is not in session, and someone wishes to  have a road or bridge named after someone, they have to get a county fiscal court or a city council to pass a resolution requesting such. After that is done, the resolution is forwarded to KYTC and an Official Order is issued. In these cases, the requesting local governmental body pays for the signs.

[bandit957]

Why would naming him start a political debate? And who disdains him besides you?

The many people who voted for his opponents.

And why not in your town?

Because I've done a lot of work in my community to reverse his policies.

[Rothman]

Why would naming him start a political debate? And who disdains him besides you?

The many people who voted for his opponents.

And why not in your town?

Because I've done a lot of work in my community to reverse his policies.

Just spill it:  Who is it?

[bandit957]

Just spill it:  Who is it?

Here's a hint: He is a 2-term former President who is now deceased.

[Rothman]

I was thinking it was Ronald Reagan all along.

[hbelkins]

I was thinking it was Ronald Reagan all along.

Yeah, me too.

But to address earlier comments:

Why would naming him start a political debate? And who disdains him besides you?

The many people who voted for his opponents.

And why not in your town?

Because I've done a lot of work in my community to reverse his policies.

If every road named after a political figure had to be named after one elected unanimously, we wouldn't have any roads named after politicians. There's so much crap in the mountains named after Carl D. Perkins that it isn't funny, but I don't get all upset about it and act personally offended.

[bandit957]

If every road named after a political figure had to be named after one elected unanimously, we wouldn't have any roads named after politicians.

The politician I'm referring to caused a lot of damage specifically to that town.

[Rothman]

If every road named after a political figure had to be named after one elected unanimously, we wouldn't have any roads named after politicians.

The politician I'm referring to caused a lot of damage specifically to that town.

You have me thinking of Nixon in Futurama now, stomping around with a robot suit.

[hbelkins]

The politician I'm referring to caused a lot of damage specifically to that town.

How, exactly?

[Scott5114]

And that's fine. Nobody says that Jackson was all bad, but in 1928 we had a much less negative view of his impact on the Native Americans than we do today. Back then, we treated the Native Americans like they were barely human. Now they have a real seat at the table in American society, and so we no longer see Jackson the same way. We've grown to see him differently than we did.

And I think the same thing may happen with the Confederacy, its flag, and its leaders.

So is it time to demand that the Democrats rename their annual party dinners, which are called Jefferson-Jackson Day dinners? (Republicans have Lincoln Day dinners, in comparison).

I wasn't aware that there was such a thing, but sure. Although it shouldn't be demanded here, since it's beyond the remit of the forum.

[Scott5114]

Once the resolution is introduced in the legislature, a pretty through investigation is done to see if the road or bridge is already named after someone else.

Now that's an interesting part of the process: is there a database somewhere that has a list of all of these things? What happens if there's a conflict (e.g. there's a bill passed saying KY 52 is named after Martin Van Coffeementioner, when it turns out that there was another law naming it the Julius W. Shoehorn Memorial Highway that the legislature didn't bother to look up?)

In Oklahoma, I think the laws merely direct ODOT to erect signage, meaning that they are under no obligation to replace it if it's damaged, so it tends to go away over time. Which is fortunate, since we get tons of roads named after random highway patrolmen that nobody knows anything about.

[bandit957]

The politician I'm referring to caused a lot of damage specifically to that town.

How, exactly?

For one thing, he helped ruin the steel industry, which hurt steelworkers who lived there.

[hbelkins]

Now that's an interesting part of the process: is there a database somewhere that has a list of all of these things? What happens if there's a conflict (e.g. there's a bill passed saying KY 52 is named after Martin Van Coffeementioner, when it turns out that there was another law naming it the Julius W. Shoehorn Memorial Highway that the legislature didn't bother to look up?)

Yes, there is a database. KYTC keeps a record of which roads are named by legislative action and which roads are named by local resolution. We had a situation this year where the legislature wanted to name a bridge after someone, but the bridge had already been named after someone else. So the legislator picked another nearby bridge to name.

[hbelkins]

So is it time to demand that the Democrats rename their annual party dinners, which are called Jefferson-Jackson Day dinners? (Republicans have Lincoln Day dinners, in comparison).

I wasn't aware that there was such a thing, but sure. Although it shouldn't be demanded here, since it's beyond the remit of the forum.

This actually happened. I heard late last week about a move somewhere to change the name of those fundraising dinners.