And the bicycle lobby wonders

[Rothman]

Bicyclists think they can go straight through a red light even through opposing traffic. That's what's dangerous, not missing the yellow by 1/10 of a second.

Not all of them.

[froggie]

Running a red light less than 1 second after it stops being yellow does not count as running a red light for purposes of this thread.

Running a red is still running a red, whether it's by 1/10th of a second or by 10 seconds.

My earlier point is that cars are by far more dangerous.  If a car hits a bike or ped, it's far more likely to cause damage, injury, and death than if the bicycle is the one doing the hitting.  As for Rothman's recent comment about bikes hitting peds, it goes both ways.  Bikes often don't give enough space while passing but at the same time there are just as many peds who unpredictably turn or have headphones on and are oblivious to their surroundings.  Furthermore, while it's not unheard of, a bike hitting a ped is far less likely to cause serious injury or death than a vehicle hitting either...

[Pete from Boston]

Bicyclists think they can go straight through a red light even through opposing traffic. That's what's dangerous, not missing the yellow by 1/10 of a second.

Not all of them.

This is at the heart of the fatal flaw of the thread–cyclists do not share a brain, do not act collectively, and do not for the most part take part in any kind of lobby.  People who describe cyclists in blanket terms as if what I say is not true sound like Donald Trump talking about... anything.

[sipes23]

This is at the heart of the fatal flaw of the thread–cyclists do not share a brain, do not act collectively, and do not for the most part take part in any kind of lobby.  People who describe cyclists in blanket terms as if what I say is not true sound like Donald Trump talking about... anything.

I don't know. The Critical Mass cyclists in Chicago might share a brain. 

I joke. Mostly.

http://chicagocriticalmass.org/

[Brandon]

This is at the heart of the fatal flaw of the thread–cyclists do not share a brain, do not act collectively, and do not for the most part take part in any kind of lobby.  People who describe cyclists in blanket terms as if what I say is not true sound like Donald Trump talking about... anything.

I don't know. The Critical Mass cyclists in Chicago might share a brain. 

I joke. Mostly.

http://chicagocriticalmass.org/

Those guys are jerks, IMHO.  Some of them actively advocate running red signals and stop signs.

The problem isn't so much that there are bicycles and cars, but that safety is compromised for all when people (using either) start doing unpredictable things (such as running red lights).  Road safety for all users is predicated on the predictability of said road users.  One should be able to predict that when the cross street has a red signal or stop sign, that all road users will wait at said red light until it turns green, or at said stop sign until traffic is clear.

That said, I had a most wonderful (in a good way) encounter with bicyclists today.  A group of them in Aurora, IL, were waiting to cross Orchard Rd (which had the green) at Galena Blvd.  However, a small crowd had decided to wait on the corner on the right side of the right turn lane instead of proceeding to the island.  Thus, I stopped as I was turning right to let them go to the island.  As far as I am concerned, if you turn across the main stream of traffic, you must wait for that stream of traffic to clear (exact same principal for turning left with oncoming traffic).

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

I try to avoid threads like this. They tend to stir up a shit storm on this forum. There are bad cyclists. There are bad cycling lobby groups. But for the most part cyclists follow the rules. There are bad drivers. But most drivers are good. Blanket statements are rarely true. Of course cyclists who run red lights are stupid - who's arguing with you? That doesn't give you the right to off cyclists as a whole.


iPad

[Pete from Boston]

I try to avoid threads like this.

But not very hard, I take it.

[hobsini2]

I try to avoid threads like this. They tend to stir up a shit storm on this forum. There are bad cyclists. There are bad cycling lobby groups. But for the most part cyclists follow the rules. There are bad drivers. But most drivers are good. Blanket statements are rarely true. Of course cyclists who run red lights are stupid - who's arguing with you? That doesn't give you the right to off cyclists as a whole.


iPad

Are you sure? I would like to off the ones who can't tell the difference between a green and red light in Chicago but I digress. On Dearborn St in the Loop, there are cyclist stoplights. Do you know how many times a day I see a cyclist ignore the light that is specific to them? At least a half dozen times a day on that street alone. That's too much. It has gotten to the point that the cyclists in this city are almost as bad as the cab drivers.

I have no issue with giving cyclists a bike lane on the road. I think they area good idea. But I do take exception to the entitled asshole who thinks the rules of the road don't apply to them too.

BTW, Chicago just added 400 cyclist cops this week AND they will be giving tickets to the cyclists who do blow the lights and stop signs.

[Rothman]

BTW, Chicago just added 400 cyclist cops this week AND they will be giving tickets to the cyclists who do blow the lights and stop signs.

Something tells me that misbehaving cyclists are in better shape than the cops.  How do you stop a cyclist when they can outrun you and how many resources should you dedicate to do so before it becomes absurdly too costly?  It's not like bicycles have license plates.

[empirestate]

BTW, Chicago just added 400 cyclist cops this week AND they will be giving tickets to the cyclists who do blow the lights and stop signs.

Something tells me that misbehaving cyclists are in better shape than the cops.  How do you stop a cyclist when they can outrun you and how many resources should you dedicate to do so before it becomes absurdly too costly?  It's not like bicycles have license plates.

Actually, in NYC they sort of do.


iPhone

[Rothman]

BTW, Chicago just added 400 cyclist cops this week AND they will be giving tickets to the cyclists who do blow the lights and stop signs.

Something tells me that misbehaving cyclists are in better shape than the cops.  How do you stop a cyclist when they can outrun you and how many resources should you dedicate to do so before it becomes absurdly too costly?  It's not like bicycles have license plates.

Actually, in NYC they sort of do.


iPhone

BTW, Chicago just added 400 cyclist cops this week AND they will be giving tickets to the cyclists who do blow the lights and stop signs.

Something tells me that misbehaving cyclists are in better shape than the cops.  How do you stop a cyclist when they can outrun you and how many resources should you dedicate to do so before it becomes absurdly too costly?  It's not like bicycles have license plates.

Actually, in NYC they sort of do.


iPhone

Huh.  I didn't know that.  Just skimming things it looks like commercial business bikes have to be marked with their business, but is there any requirement for recreational cyclists?

[NE2]

I would like to off the ones

Premeditated murder is fun.

[roadman]

And the absurdity continues:  http://www.boston.com/news/2015/08/05/man-rides-bicycle-interstate-during-boston-rush-hour/TNPBbcfVZ920usQAjGqTBJ/story.html?p1=feature_sec_hp

Wonder what they've been putting in the local water.

[hobsini2]

BTW, Chicago just added 400 cyclist cops this week AND they will be giving tickets to the cyclists who do blow the lights and stop signs.

Something tells me that misbehaving cyclists are in better shape than the cops.  How do you stop a cyclist when they can outrun you and how many resources should you dedicate to do so before it becomes absurdly too costly?  It's not like bicycles have license plates.

Oh I would venture to guess that there are plenty of cops who are also cyclists.

[Pete from Boston]

He was probably moving a lot faster than anyone else on that road.  Should've worn a sign that said "If you were biking you'd be a mile ahead by now, and in better shape."

Regardless, as stupid as this guy was, I hope the Glob starts devoting as much ink to our collective numbness to egregious driving behavior as it does to that of bicyclists.

[Pete from Boston]

BTW, Chicago just added 400 cyclist cops this week AND they will be giving tickets to the cyclists who do blow the lights and stop signs.

Something tells me that misbehaving cyclists are in better shape than the cops.  How do you stop a cyclist when they can outrun you and how many resources should you dedicate to do so before it becomes absurdly too costly?  It's not like bicycles have license plates.

Oh I would venture to guess that there are plenty of cops who are also cyclists.

Cyclists here get ticketed.  Usually in some kind of sting operation, and usually in Cambridge, but it happens.  Red light violations and failure to yield to peds seem to be the big targets. 

[jeffandnicole]

And the absurdity continues:  http://www.boston.com/news/2015/08/05/man-rides-bicycle-interstate-during-boston-rush-hour/TNPBbcfVZ920usQAjGqTBJ/story.html?p1=feature_sec_hp

Wonder what they've been putting in the local water.

I can understand why motorists were getting out of the way.  They probably wouldn't want to be driving near a heroin-drugged hippie riding a bicycle on an interstate.  And then getting questioned by the police and their insurance company how they managed to hit the guy.

[empirestate]

BTW, Chicago just added 400 cyclist cops this week AND they will be giving tickets to the cyclists who do blow the lights and stop signs.

Something tells me that misbehaving cyclists are in better shape than the cops.  How do you stop a cyclist when they can outrun you and how many resources should you dedicate to do so before it becomes absurdly too costly?  It's not like bicycles have license plates.

Actually, in NYC they sort of do.


iPhone
[/quote]

Huh.  I didn't know that.  Just skimming things it looks like commercial business bikes have to be marked with their business, but is there any requirement for recreational cyclists?
[/quote]

Not at the moment, but commercial bikes make up a very large percentage of the total traffic, at least in Manhattan where I typically encounter problems.


iPhone

[jeffandnicole]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/08/lost_deliveryman_rides_wrong-way_into_holland_tunnel_officials_say.html#incart_river_mobileshort

Electric bicycle + Riding wrong way into Holland Tunnel = Delivery order that never made it to the hungry customer.

[Bruce]

Some inexcusable behavior from a professional BMXer who breaks tons of traffic laws in NYC (skip to 2:18 for lane-splitting while going the wrong way on a one-way street):

I'm pro-cycling, but this guy is just an asshole that deserves to lose any kind of endorsements he's earned. Also needs to spend some jail time. Full article at the Gothamist.

[SidS1045]

However, I do not have much respect for lobbyist groups who demand special infrastructure for cyclists without then agreeing that those same cyclists be legally required to use said infrastructure - i.e. bike lanes.

...

In Massachusetts, if a vehicle turning right is in a collision with a cyclist, the fact that the cyclist was attempting to pass the vehicle on the right cannot be used as a defense by the driver.  However, if I try passing a right turning vehicle on the right in my car, I am presumed to be at least partially fault if I collide with that vehicle.

You can't have it both ways.  In the first sentence, you want to require bicyclists to ride in their own lane (typically located to the right of vehicles) rather than allowing them to ride with vehicles.  In the second, you try to blame them for an accident when they're exactly where you've forced them to be.

You missed the point.  Just because the cyclist is "where you've forced them to be" doesn't give them a free pass on paying attention to the traffic around them.  If a car is making a right turn in front of them, it doesn't do the cyclist any good at all to be "right" or "legal."  In this case, "right" might equal "dead."

The law cited by roadman is another in a long line of laws passed by The Great and General Court of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts written by legislators who haven't a clue.

[NE2]

If right equals dead, motorist equals murderer.

[Brandon]

If right equals dead, motorist equals murderer.

Unfortunately, you can't do much more once you're dead.  I got taught early that you may be in the right (and this includes while driving), but it's better not to be literally dead right.

[NE2]

It's also better to kill than drive safely. Or so I learned.