Fritzowling in the 50s and 60s

[kernals12]

One could say that the practice of FritzOwling played a major factor in why so many freeway revolts began in the first place.  One could also say that it led to us the downfall of some DOT (Example; California DOH).

Boston's expressway plan was pretty reasonable with 6 radials and one inner belt within 128, but it still had a freeway revolt. I think cost was probably a bigger factor than community opposition.

Sometimes it can be as simple as an ugly structure like was planned for I-10 in downtown Phoenix.  People lost their minds over having a potentially (FWIW the design was terrible looking) elevated freeway bisecting the downtown area.

You mean those helicoils? I don't know, I feel like they would've become an iconic landmark.

Like the Embarcadero Freeway and Alaskan Way Viaduct did?  The Deck Park Tunnel was an infinitely better design and didn't disrupt much on the surface level.

LA's 4 level stack has become an icon.

It's hardly a stack in the modern sense - US-101 is the top level and hardly gets 15 feet above surface streets, so it's not blocking any views. And it's located at what is today the northwestern corner of downtown, but at the time was a mile or so from the CBD, so it didn't (and doesn't) bisect downtown L.A.

I'd argue that the Four-Level's iconic status is less from any visual impact (really, as you approach and then go through it you don't get the sense that you're encountering anything significant) and more from its historical significance as the first stack interchange.

Meanwhile, here's one of L.A.'s "Master Plans" for freeways, from 1957:

(this image is difficult to read, but the original, much larger image can be found here:
http://libraryarchives.metro.net/DPGTL/maps/1957a_MasterPlan_Freeways.jpg

Again though, most of those at least made it to the planning stage in fact some of the cancelled ones even had their right of way cleared.

[1995hoo]

How come I can't see any of the photos?

Because you're lucky. I see the full set of photos four times due to quotations of the full post in which the photos were not edited out prior to single-sentence responses.

[hotdogPi]

I don't know if this can be added to the filter:

Code Select Expand


# variable "post" is the post
# warn() is a built-in function that warns upon submitting
# image.get_width() and image.get_height() take the URL and return the width and height
quotes = 0
to_read = post
while to_read:
    if to_read[:6] == '[quote':
        quotes += 1
    if to_read[:8] == '[/quote]':
        quotes -= 1
    if quotes < 0:
        warn('Your post has mismatched quote tags.')
        break
    if quotes > 0 and to_read[:4] == '[img' and image_status == None:
        width = image.get_width(to_read[:to_read.index('[/img]'+6)])
        height = image.get_height(to_read[:to_read.index('[/img]'+6)])
        if width >= 600 or height >= 600:
            if to_read[:10] == '[img width':
                to_read = post.split(' ')
                try:
                    to_read[1] = width//2
                    to_read[2] = height//2
                    for i in to_read:
                        post += i + ' '
                    post = post[:-1] #remove trailing space
                except ValueError:
                    pass
            elif post[:5] == '[img]':
                to_read = '[img width=%s height=%s]' % (width/2, height/2) + post[5:]
            else:
                pass #should never happen if correctly formatted
    post += to_read[0]
    to_read = to_read[1:] #delete first character
if quotes > 0:
    warn('Your post has mismatched quote tags.')


It makes large images half as large while preserving aspect ratio if it's inside a quote, and it also warns about mismatched quote tags. I haven't tested the script myself, so be don't be surprised if you get an error (and even if it's correct, post, warn(), and image are undefined in this code snippet).

[texaskdog]

I have a 1962 Austin I'm looking at right now but I don't know how to share on this site.

[kernals12]

I have a 1962 Austin I'm looking at right now but I don't know how to share on this site.

Upload the photo to imgur, click get share links and copy and paste the BBCode

[vdeane]

How come I can't see any of the photos?

Probably because you're using Chrome, which has brain-damaged security misfeatures enabled by default.

how can i fix that?

Using Firefox is a good way of doing it, since that way you aren't dependent on whatever stupid thing the Google marketing department comes up with next.

If you must use Chrome, go into your settings and set it to allow "mixed content".

Mixed content isn't exactly secure.  Anyone can perform a man in the middle attack.  And SSL is SO easy these days (I got it on my website for free literally by clicking a button).

I just use the open image in new tab trick.  Or people could just start linking to things that don't use SSL.  That's what I did for my site when hotlinking mysteriously stopped working years ago (though it seems to have started working again; it stopped working long enough ago that I don't think lack of SSL was the reason, though you never know).

[Flint1979]

Everyone always has their assumption about 8 Mile mainly because of the movie but 8 Mile isn't what people make it out to be. It's simply a very busy road on the northern city limit of Detroit. What not too many people would know about 8 Mile is that it's the Michigan Baseline and is also known as Baseline Road for that reason. It was surveyed at the same time as the Michigan Meridian which has a road that runs along it called Meridian Road going the entire length of the state with a break between the Lower and Upper Peninsulas with parts of that road being US-127, M-30 and M-129.

[Max Rockatansky]

Everyone always has their assumption about 8 Mile mainly because of the movie but 8 Mile isn't what people make it out to be. It's simply a very busy road on the northern city limit of Detroit. What not too many people would know about 8 Mile is that it's the Michigan Baseline and is also known as Baseline Road for that reason. It was surveyed at the same time as the Michigan Meridian which has a road that runs along it called Meridian Road going the entire length of the state with a break between the Lower and Upper Peninsulas with parts of that road being US-127, M-30 and M-129.

I wouldn't even say 8 Mile really represents the socioeconomic divide so many think it does.  Yeah, there are lots of neighborhoods in got such great shape off of 8 Mile but it is way worse on Michigan Avenue, Jefferson Avenue and Grand River Avenue. 

[Flint1979]

Everyone always has their assumption about 8 Mile mainly because of the movie but 8 Mile isn't what people make it out to be. It's simply a very busy road on the northern city limit of Detroit. What not too many people would know about 8 Mile is that it's the Michigan Baseline and is also known as Baseline Road for that reason. It was surveyed at the same time as the Michigan Meridian which has a road that runs along it called Meridian Road going the entire length of the state with a break between the Lower and Upper Peninsulas with parts of that road being US-127, M-30 and M-129.

I wouldn't even say 8 Mile really represents the socioeconomic divide so many think it does.  Yeah, there are lots of neighborhoods in got such great shape off of 8 Mile but it is way worse on Michigan Avenue, Jefferson Avenue and Grand River Avenue.

Well if you are looking for a divide for the north 8 Mile always seemed like ok we got the city of Detroit and then the suburbs and the relationship between the city and it's suburbs isn't the best but honestly there are several inner ring suburbs of Detroit that are basically in the same condition as Detroit. Like almost every suburb with the exception of a few that border Detroit always seem like they have that spillover from Detroit that effects their city. Lincoln Park is a prime example but that's SW Detroit, then River Rouge, Ecorse, parts of Dearborn and Dearborn Heights, Redford Township, most of Southfield, Oak Park, Hazel Park, Warren, Harper Woods has got real bad since about 2000. But anyway the border you are looking for on the north probably is as far north as 12 Mile Road at the present in some areas the area between 8 and 12 Mile is ok but in others it's not as good like the southern half of Warren resembles the east side of Detroit if you ask me.

I have always thought the worst part of Detroit was the area around 7 Mile and Gratiot, from about Ryan Road going east 7 Mile goes through some real dandy parts of Detroit. Back in the late 90's/early 2000's I use to live off 7 Mile and Van Dyke on Quinn Street it sucked back then too. I had to get out of Detroit after Kwame took over as mayor. If you want to look at two reasons why Detroit is in the condition it's in today those two reasons would be named Coleman Young and Kwame Kilpatrick.

[3467]

It's hard to link from my phone. But here are some more
First of all go to Northeast and you will MA RI and CT.
Then there is Illinois Freeway History Thread which has the supplemental freeway system. I think there may be a pic. Of the 1971 Interim Plan for Chicago which was never adopted.
There are updated onward left in Southern Illinois Notes.
Then it's linked somewhere here but can be Googled
Kansas City,Missouri to Chicago,Illinois
1973 Federal Aid Highway Act
Route Feasibility Study
It's has the Iowa and Missouri state dream maps
Iowa published it in its History book. Both it and Missouri are rare.
I found California beyond L.A. On the Atlas of California .
Ohio is here on
Under the US 30 Expressway Canton to the Ohio line thread.
Finally I know there were plans for New York ,Pennsylvania and New Jersey.
I don't know if any others statewide at least.

[kernals12]

If anything, Robert Moses was the FritzOwl of his time, because he also wanted to build freeways everywhere. While many proposals were practical, they were just poorly executed. I've dug up even more maps below to prove this.

New York City:


Philadelphia:


Baltimore:



Washington, DC:



Atlanta:

Actually, the Roosevelt Boulevard expressway in Philadelphia could happen.
http://rooseveltblvd.com/app/uploads/2018/11/Partially-Capped-Express-Lanes-Long-Term-Alternative.pdf

[Scott5114]

How come I can't see any of the photos?

Probably because you're using Chrome, which has brain-damaged security misfeatures enabled by default.

how can i fix that?

Using Firefox is a good way of doing it, since that way you aren't dependent on whatever stupid thing the Google marketing department comes up with next.

If you must use Chrome, go into your settings and set it to allow "mixed content".

Mixed content isn't exactly secure.  Anyone can perform a man in the middle attack.  And SSL is SO easy these days (I got it on my website for free literally by clicking a button).

I just use the open image in new tab trick.  Or people could just start linking to things that don't use SSL.  That's what I did for my site when hotlinking mysteriously stopped working years ago (though it seems to have started working again; it stopped working long enough ago that I don't think lack of SSL was the reason, though you never know).

The problem is that this is a site made of user-generated content. We don't provide image hosting because it is too expensive, so images will generally come from other domains. Many of our users do not know or care about the difference between HTTP and HTTPS images. Nothing of value other than highway-related images is being exchanged here. (It reminds me of a recent planning commission meeting I went to where people were hopping mad about the potential that a marijuana grow facility would be a target for crime. A lawyer pointed out that if someone broke into a grow facility they'd just find immature plants–a lot of work they could do, but nothing with any monetary value until they matured.)

Sure, it may be cheap and easy to get a certificate on some hosts. I use a VPS and not shared hosting, so for me installing a certificate is a royal pain in the ass. If I was serving a hobbyist site and not an e-commerce one, there's no way I'd bother with it. It's a moot point, though–we can't force any third party site that may have an image someone wants to share to change their hosting protocols.

Forums hosting images that aren't stored on the same domain has been such a fundamental part of the Internet since back in the days where everyone used Yahoo! as their Web search provider. Either Google doesn't know this, which means they have not done the amount of research into their users' needs that is needed to create a good product, or they know and don't care because they are intentionally trying to bend the Internet to their corporate will, which is worse.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Getting back to the OP for this thread...

I think that some highway planners in the 50s and 60s just threw lines on maps to see what stuck. Here are some examples

(Images snipped)

Max Concrete knows everything there is to know about highways in Texas, and he says in his book that many of those lines in the 1967 DFW plan were not taken seriously, with basically no effort expended in trying to build them. Similarly, in Portland, everyone knows about the revolt against the Mount Hood Freeway which marked the beginning of that city's fruitless war on the automobile, but I haven't found anything about the Sellwood or the 52nd Avenue Freeways. So it's clear that planners were drawing lines for freeways that they knew would never get built. But why? Was it just out of fantasy?

The Post-war era of highway construction was not total fantasy.
Politicians, at all levels, regardless of party, saw that highway construction helped them. Comerace, trade, and lower costs for Republicans. Jobs, union promotion, and wages for Democrats. And amazingly, from the end of WW2 up to the Vietnam war protests, "we" (meaning white males) thought "America" could do anything and had the funding (between higher tax rates and pent up spending [after holding back between the great depression and WW2] at both the personal and business/corporate levels) to do so.
It took 50 years for folks to get jaded.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Also, nothing a little reading can't help...