Numbered exits...losing their numbers in newer sign replacements

[TheStranger]

A total rarity considering that California has joined the rest of the country in numbering their exits...but here's an interesting counterexample, on the Arroyo Seco Parkway (Pasadena Freeway)/Route 110 heading south towards the Four-Level in Los Angeles:

1971-era signage, photographed some time earlier this decade or in the 90s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arroyo_Seco_Parkway_through_Elysian_Park.jpg


2006-era signage, some time after the exit numbering program had started!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/anicecupoftea/118183647/sizes/l/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/2572258197/sizes/z/in/photostream/
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Elysian+Park,+Los+Angeles&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=40.324283,70.576172&ie=UTF8&hq=Elysian+Park,&hnear=Los+Angeles,+California&ll=34.075412,-118.23217&spn=0,0.008615&z=17&layer=c&cbll=34.075497,-118.23209&panoid=TIc3GYNC8c-jv9k3B1VW-g&cbp=12,227.16,,0,-5.65


Obviously, in the future, the exit numbers will be restored to this pair of interchanges (it may simply be a case of CalTrans recalculating which letter suffix goes with which ramp, as opposed to using the 1971 mileage formulas) - but still very odd.  Has this happened anywhere else?

[myosh_tino]

A total rarity considering that California has joined the rest of the country in numbering their exits...but here's an interesting counterexample, on the Arroyo Seco Parkway (Pasadena Freeway)/Route 110 heading south towards the Four-Level in Los Angeles:

1971-era signage, photographed some time earlier this decade or in the 90s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arroyo_Seco_Parkway_through_Elysian_Park.jpg

2006-era signage, some time after the exit numbering program had started!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/anicecupoftea/118183647/sizes/l/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/2572258197/sizes/z/in/photostream/
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Elysian+Park,+Los+Angeles&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=40.324283,70.576172&ie=UTF8&hq=Elysian+Park,&hnear=Los+Angeles,+California&ll=34.075412,-118.23217&spn=0,0.008615&z=17&layer=c&cbll=34.075497,-118.23209&panoid=TIc3GYNC8c-jv9k3B1VW-g&cbp=12,227.16,,0,-5.65


Obviously, in the future, the exit numbers will be restored to this pair of interchanges (it may simply be a case of CalTrans recalculating which letter suffix goes with which ramp, as opposed to using the 1971 mileage formulas) - but still very odd.  Has this happened anywhere else?

I can't say for sure why the exit numbers were not put on the signs but there appears to be room at the top of both exit signs for Caltrans to add an exit tab.  I recreated the signs in the second picture and as you can see, there does appear to be enough room for the exit numbers (transparency of the tabs was set to 50% to show both the current sign and where the exit number would go)...



According to Caltrans' the exit number for Hill Street is 42C 24C while the exit number for Stadium Way/Dodger Stadium is 42D 24D.

Edit #1: Guess I'm a little dyslexic.  These exits are 24C-D *not* 42C-D! 
Edit #2: Corrected exit numbers

[TheStranger]

According to Caltrans' the exit number for Hill Street is 42C while the exit number for Stadium Way/Dodger Stadium is 42D.

Looking closer at the 1971-era signs, the Dodger Stadium exit (Stadium Way wasn't labeled until the sign replacement) was 24C, while Civic Center/Hill Street was 24B - so clearly it was a letter suffix recalculation.

Which begs an obvious question or two:

1. I'm surprised that no tab has been added via retroreflective sticker patching, like it has been on many other existing-sign examples out in this state (and could easily be done at low cost here).
2. If the 1971-era signage was still up - as it is in other places downtown and along the 110 - why not simply patch over the old letters with the new?  Even cheaper than a full sign replacement, until they were ready with the correct numbers on new signs.

[myosh_tino]

It looks like the road was recently widened and the ramp to Hill Street got a second lane.  I couldn't tell if the sign bridges were replaced but the first photo shows only 4 lanes and the current Google Maps satellite image shows 5 total lanes.

Original Configuration...
#1 - Exit Only to Hill St
#2 & #3 - CA-110
#4 - Exit Only to Stadium Way

New Configuration...
#1 - Exit Only to Hill St
#2 - Hill St or CA-110 (option lane)
#3 & #4 - CA-110
#5 - Exit Only to Stadium Way

The addition of the option lane required changing both the Hill St exit sign and the CA-110 pull through which is why Caltrans decided to replace all the signs on the structure.  Why exit numbers were left off is a mystery to me.

[TheStranger]

It looks like the road was recently widened and the ramp to Hill Street got a second lane.

That kinda surprises me since this is right next to the Figueroa Street Tunnels - as the Arroyo Seco Parkway is now considered officially a historic route, I didn't realize that widening was still kosher here.

Having said that, it at the very least explains why the signs needed replacement.

  Why exit numbers were left off is a mystery to me.

It could be a case of the retroreflective signs being put up a lot earlier than I thought, but if I'm not mistaken,  most new signage post-2002 should have them.

Then again, exit numbers continued to be left off from the 80 east to 50 east split in West Sacramento, and the 50 east to 99 south/Business 80 east split in Sacramento - on signs that were just produced 11 months ago!

[myosh_tino]

It certainly is odd. 

New exit signs were installed all over Santa Clara County a few years ago to get rid of the butterfly sign bridges on US 101, I-880, I-280, CA-237 and CA-85 and they all featured exit numbers except one.  The exit sign for North First Street in San Jose on northbound I-880 was replaced (which contained an old outline 101 shield) and while the First Street exit sign got an exit number, the US 101 advance guide sign did not.  Because the 880-101 interchange is a cloverleaf the advance guide sign would have needed an "EXITS 4B-C" tab which is not a common sight in California.

[TheStranger]

It certainly is odd. 
  Because the 880-101 interchange is a cloverleaf the advance guide sign would have needed an "EXITS 4B-C" tab which is not a common sight in California.

I almost want to say that freeway-to-freeway interchanges have been very inconsistently given exit numbers in the recent signage - in addition to the two Sacramento examples I gave (in contrast to I-5's numbered junctions with 50 and 80), I know that the 280/101 junction in San Francisco remains unnumbered even with several late-90s retroreflective signs still in use, the same deal with the Macarthur Maze. 

There's a recent photo from Flickr that I posted here that showed the 5/110 junction southbound, in which numbers appeared on one sign but not another (the sign without numbers being one of the newer Arroyo Seco Parkway overheads).

[Quillz]

Most of the freeway mileage in CA was measured in 1964, so it's possible CalTRANS want to remeasure certain freeways and then restore the exit numbers, as some may have changed.

[vdeane]

I'm still getting over the fact that the 1971 signage actually looks good!  Proof that caltrans could do proper exit signage if only they wanted to.

[TheStranger]

I'm still getting over the fact that the 1971 signage actually looks good!  Proof that caltrans could do proper exit signage if only they wanted to.

I still to this day wish there was more information on the 1971 signing project - from what I recall seeing in my now torn up 1982 Gousha atlas, the following freeways had numbers:

- I-10 from Route 1 to approximately I-605
- US 101 from I-5 to the Four-Level
- what was then Route 11 (now I-110/Route 110) from just north of I-10 to just north of I-5
- I-5 from north of I-710 to the East Los Angeles Interchange

They were all in the center-tabbed format.

Some more examples of the 1971 project:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/1539270718/in/set-72157602440458904/ Harbor Freeway (final segment of I-110 before it becomes Route 110/Arroyo Seco Parkway) north near Stadium Way, Exit 24
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs164.snc3/19158_858551374033_3216777_47620119_6775212_n.jpg - obscured in this shot, but it is Exit 22 for 6th and 9th Street on I-110/Harbor Freeway north

Exit 132A - number may be different now - for Calzona Street from I-5 (Santa Ana Freeway) north

[kurumi]

I'm astounded that those separate, above-the-panel exit tabs were able to withstand the wind loads unique to California. 

[TheStranger]

I'm astounded that those separate, above-the-panel exit tabs were able to withstand the wind loads unique to California. 

Considering California's love of durability...would it really be that hard to make a retoreflective version of these center-tabbed deals?  They HAVE done that twice in this area in the last 5 years (see the thread I linked below)!  They're quite a bit more legible than the internal tabs (though I don't find the internally-drawn tabs a hindrance really, they're just such a band-aid solution).

For most of the recalculated milages, a simple greenout patch would have been just fine, or a retroreflective greenout sticker - as opposed to tearing down a perfectly useful gantry or overhead and installing a new one!

I've started a new thread in the Pacific Southwest subforum specific to the Los Angeles exit numbering project, including a full list of AARoads photos showing the 1971 tabs:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3442.0

[citrus]

On the other coast, on northbound RI 4 approaching I-95, there used to be a sign reading "Division St, Exits 8A-B". Someone graffiti'd the dash to make it a division sign....and when the sign was replaced, it just says "Exits A-B".