Express Toll Lanes or HOT/HOV Lanes

[1995hoo]

The vast majority of I-395 has a 6-foot wide left shoulder, which is about as wide as a car and is a lot wider than 2 feet.

Drive from Shirlington to Seminary Road. That left "shoulder" is basically nonexistent.

[cpzilliacus]

The vast majority of I-395 has a 6-foot wide left shoulder, which is about as wide as a car and is a lot wider than 2 feet.

Drive from Shirlington to Seminary Road. That left "shoulder" is basically nonexistent.

Isn't that because the segment of I-395 in question has an extra conventional (non-HOV) lane shoe-horned in southbound from Quaker Lane (Shirlington) south to Va. 236 (Duke Street)?

[roadman65]

They're coming to Orlando for I-4.  I do not think it will be HOV but special express lanes anyway and another facility for the Orlando- Orange County Expressway Authority.

[Beltway]

The vast majority of I-395 has a 6-foot wide left shoulder, which is about as wide as a car and is a lot wider than 2 feet.

Drive from Shirlington to Seminary Road. That left "shoulder" is basically nonexistent.

Isn't that because the segment of I-395 in question has an extra conventional (non-HOV) lane shoe-horned in southbound from Quaker Lane (Shirlington) south to Va. 236 (Duke Street)?

Yes.  It was built as I said, around 1970, and a widening project in the 1980s added a lane and took most of that shoulder.

[vdeane]

<<< In a true HOT lane you wouldn't need E-ZPass.  They're toll lanes that give a 100% discount to HOV rides. >>>

That is what HOT lanes are ... tolls for those vehicles under the person occupancy threshold, no tolls for those at or over the threshold.

Unless toll booths are utilized, some form of electronic toll collection (such as E-ZPass) will be needed.

I can't think of any other HOV setup where HOV traffic needs a transponder.  Normally the HOV distinction is done by something called "police enforcement".

[deathtopumpkins]

<<< In a true HOT lane you wouldn't need E-ZPass.  They're toll lanes that give a 100% discount to HOV rides. >>>

That is what HOT lanes are ... tolls for those vehicles under the person occupancy threshold, no tolls for those at or over the threshold.

Unless toll booths are utilized, some form of electronic toll collection (such as E-ZPass) will be needed.

I can't think of any other HOV setup where HOV traffic needs a transponder.  Normally the HOV distinction is done by something called "police enforcement".

HO/T lanes also need all HOV traffic to have a transponder so that they can get accurate traffic counts, since, you know, traffic counts are used to determine the toll rates. The rates aren't determined just based on how many toll vehicles are in the lanes, but how many total vehicles.

[vdeane]

Can't they get that from sensors in the pavement?  I believe that's how such stuff is normally done.

[The High Plains Traveler]

<<< In a true HOT lane you wouldn't need E-ZPass.  They're toll lanes that give a 100% discount to HOV rides. >>>

That is what HOT lanes are ... tolls for those vehicles under the person occupancy threshold, no tolls for those at or over the threshold.

Unless toll booths are utilized, some form of electronic toll collection (such as E-ZPass) will be needed.

I can't think of any other HOV setup where HOV traffic needs a transponder.  Normally the HOV distinction is done by something called "police enforcement".

HO/T lanes also need all HOV traffic to have a transponder so that they can get accurate traffic counts, since, you know, traffic counts are used to determine the toll rates. The rates aren't determined just based on how many toll vehicles are in the lanes, but how many total vehicles.

Not so. I've used the HO/T lane on I-25 in Denver without a transponder and without blowback because I had passengers. In Denver, the lanes are marked to require vehicles with passengers to use one lane and single-occupant vehicles with transponders to use the other at the point where there are overhead sensors and cameras. These are photo-enforced, and a multi-occupant vehicle can be cited if it's in the transponder lane without a transponder. In Minnesota, transponders are also not required for vehicles with passengers in the HO/T lanes.

Think about it: you're incentivized to carry passengers and thus get to use the HO/T lane for free. If you carry a transponder, you'll be charged whether you have passengers or not.

[1995hoo]

....

Think about it: you're incentivized to carry passengers and thus get to use the HO/T lane for free. If you carry a transponder, you'll be charged whether you have passengers or not.

That's why the transponders Virginia is requiring for its new HO/T lanes are "switchable." If you have three or more people, you put the switch in "HOV mode" and are not charged. If you don't have that many people, you put the switch in the other position and it charges the toll.

I know Miami's HO/T lane doesn't require a transponder for carpools, but the catch is that the carpool must be registered with the people who operate the facility.

[The High Plains Traveler]

^
That's interesting about switchable transponders. The Colorado E-Pass that works on both the E-470 toll road east of Denver and on the I-25 HOT lane downtown has been reduced to a small strip on the windshield. I have never had one. I explained above the compliance point on the I-25 HOT lane; just to further expand, it's a reversible lane so obviously it's physically separated from mainline traffic and has limited entrance points, so it's easy to have that one place to determine compliance.

The only other HOT lanes I am vaguely familiar with are approaching Minneapolis on I-394, which has a dedicated lane on each side with limited legal access/exit points west of MN-100, and a reversible lane east of 100 to downtown. Also, there is one on I-35W, dedicated lanes on each side. I don't know how compliance is determined because either a State Patrol vehicle would have to know whether a single-occupant vehicle has a valid transponder, or there would have to be a photo enforcement component.

In neither Denver nor Minneapolis are car pools required to register.

[kphoger]

The only HOV lanes I have personal experience in are these:
I-35W (and possibly one or two others such as US-12) in Minneapolis
I-635 in Dallas

I've used both of these, but I don't think I-635 in Dallas has any transponder thingamadohickeygadgets.  I-35W in Minneapolis has signs displaying prices, but I have no idea how that's supposed to work.  There are no signs telling me to stay out of the lane without a transponder or anything, so I use the lanes every time our family makes the drive up there. 

[cpzilliacus]

I've used both of these, but I don't think I-635 in Dallas has any transponder thingamadohickeygadgets.  I-35W in Minneapolis has signs displaying prices, but I have no idea how that's supposed to work.  There are no signs telling me to stay out of the lane without a transponder or anything, so I use the lanes every time our family makes the drive up there. 

Only managed lanes I am aware of in Minnesota are on I-394, and I have seen them once, some years ago.  I think I read that there was discussion of some sort of HOV/HOV/Toll/Managed lanes on I-35W, but I don't know that these have been built (though they could have been - I have not been in Minnesota for quite a few years).

I seem to recall that only vehicles with one person had to have a transponder (MnPASS) to pay the tolls. If you have more than one person, you did not need a transponder to  use them.

[Zmapper]

Denver appears to have introduced pay-by-plate to its HOT lane. When I traveled through the area off peak, the toll for those with a transponder or sticker was 50 cents and for those using pay-by-plate, it was 75 cents. It is possible to have an HOT lane that allows anyone to use it, provided they are carpooling or willing to pay.

[cpzilliacus]

Denver appears to have introduced pay-by-plate to its HOT lane. When I traveled through the area off peak, the toll for those with a transponder or sticker was 50 cents and for those using pay-by-plate, it was 75 cents. It is possible to have an HOT lane that allows anyone to use it, provided they are carpooling or willing to pay.

While vehicle occupancy means nothing in terms of tolls owed, Highway 407 in the suburbs of Toronto, Ontario has had pay-by-plate since its first segment opened to traffic in 1997.   

I believe this may have been the first all-electronic toll road in the world (now if the owners of the Highway 407 concession would just get with their neighbors across Lake Ontario and the Niagara River and joint the E-ZPass IAG, well, that would be nice).