Toll roads toss the coins for electronic methods

[deathtopumpkins]

That is absolutely genius!

[jeffandnicole]

I believe the NJ Turnpike experimented with Credit Cards way back in the mid-1970's.  At the time it was a failed experiment, although I don't remember why.  The results today may be a bit different.  However, with the majority of travelers using EZ Pass, and the eventual conversion to all-electronic/video tolling, it's not a major concern to them.

As for parking garages, I think at one point it was invisioned that EZ Pass would be used to pay for parking as well.  I don't know if the cost was too high or there were other challanges, but the only parking garages I'm aware of that accept EZ Pass are authority-owned parking garages, such as the Newark Airport (PANYNJ) and a garage in Atlantic City (AC Expressway).

Many parking garages also will allow you to insert a credit card when you arrive at the parking garage, rather than take a ticket.  When you leave, you swipe your credit card again, and it instantly matches your CC in time to charge your account.

[cpzilliacus]

TOLLROADSnews: Thanksgiving trip Frederick MD to Princeton NJ sees Penn Pike cash lanes most congested

A 370 mile Thanksgiving round trip to a son's place in Princeton NJ and back involved the use of six toll facilities:

- Pennsylvania Turnpike Harrisburg to Trenton

- DRJTBC US1 Trenton

- New Jersey Turnpike southern end

- DRBA Delaware Memorial Bridge

- Delaware Turnpike

- Kennedy Highway and Baltimore Harbor Tunnel, MdTA

The good news is that although traffic was often heavy nowhere did we experience any delays. With our Penn Pike E-ZPass we were able to drive straight through all the toll points.

[hbelkins]

We saw an E-ZPass parking garage in downtown Richmond during the meet tour. ^{(citation needed)}

[1995hoo]

I believe the NJ Turnpike experimented with Credit Cards way back in the mid-1970's.  At the time it was a failed experiment, although I don't remember why.  The results today may be a bit different.  However, with the majority of travelers using EZ Pass, and the eventual conversion to all-electronic/video tolling, it's not a major concern to them.

....

I wonder if back then they had to take an imprint and have the driver sign the slip, given that all the various card readers and the related relaxation of signature requirements came along later (remember how you used to have to sign the slip at the gas station?). That would be a major reason it flopped if that's how it worked. This all is part of the reason why most fast-food places didn't take credit cards for many years. Taking an imprint, filling in the slip, and having the customer sign it, or printing a receipt and getting a signature, took too long.

[theline]

I believe the NJ Turnpike experimented with Credit Cards way back in the mid-1970's.  At the time it was a failed experiment, although I don't remember why.  The results today may be a bit different.  However, with the majority of travelers using EZ Pass, and the eventual conversion to all-electronic/video tolling, it's not a major concern to them.

....

I wonder if back then they had to take an imprint and have the driver sign the slip, given that all the various card readers and the related relaxation of signature requirements came along later (remember how you used to have to sign the slip at the gas station?). That would be a major reason it flopped if that's how it worked. This all is part of the reason why most fast-food places didn't take credit cards for many years. Taking an imprint, filling in the slip, and having the customer sign it, or printing a receipt and getting a signature, took too long.

I'm not in retail, so I claim no authority. However, my common sense tells me that fast food restaurants love credit cards because their employees don't have to take the time to make change, they don't risk change-making errors, and they don't have to handle as much cash, with less chance of loss due to theft. My experience paying with a card at a fast food is that I'm at the window for a shorter time.

All of that would seem to apply to toll booths.

[myosh_tino]

I'm not in retail, so I claim no authority. However, my common sense tells me that fast food restaurants love credit cards because their employees don't have to take the time to make change, they don't risk change-making errors, and they don't have to handle as much cash, with less chance of loss due to theft. My experience paying with a card at a fast food is that I'm at the window for a shorter time.

All of that would seem to apply to toll booths.

I am in retail and we have a love-hate relationship with credit cards.  While we (and our customers) love the convenience, I despise the processing fees we have to fork over to Visa, Mastercard, Discover and American Express each month (as much as 4.5 cents for each dollar charged).  While change-making errors are reduced, because our registers don't have a built-in mag stripe reader, we have to run credit card transactions through a separate terminal where there is a chance the amount keyed in is incorrect.  It doesn't happen too often but it does happen.

I've never used a credit card to pay at a fast-food drive thru but my waits when I pay cash are pretty short.

[realjd]

I'm not in retail, so I claim no authority. However, my common sense tells me that fast food restaurants love credit cards because their employees don't have to take the time to make change, they don't risk change-making errors, and they don't have to handle as much cash, with less chance of loss due to theft. My experience paying with a card at a fast food is that I'm at the window for a shorter time.

All of that would seem to apply to toll booths.

I am in retail and we have a love-hate relationship with credit cards.  While we (and our customers) love the convenience, I despise the processing fees we have to fork over to Visa, Mastercard, Discover and American Express each month (as much as 4.5 cents for each dollar charged).  While change-making errors are reduced, because our registers don't have a built-in mag stripe reader, we have to run credit card transactions through a separate terminal where there is a chance the amount keyed in is incorrect.  It doesn't happen too often but it does happen.

I've never used a credit card to pay at a fast-food drive thru but my waits when I pay cash are pretty short.

Well it's only recently (past 5 or 10 years) that fast food decided to accept credit/debit cards at all! Fast food was a whole lot less convenient back in the dark ages when they were cash only.

[deathtopumpkins]

Well it's only recently (past 5 or 10 years) that fast food decided to accept credit/debit cards at all! Fast food was a whole lot less convenient back in the dark ages when they were cash only.

I'm willing to bet it's longer than that, because I can't ever in my life recall going to a fast food restaurant and having it not accept credit cards.

[jeffandnicole]

In general, customers using credit cards spend more than those that don't, so it helps increase sales as well.  Someone may normally get a burger, fries and soda paying cash, but will add on a apple pie or splurge for a milkshake with a credit card. You may say "But that's only another dollar".  The restaurant sees it as receiving another 10% - 20% of revenue from that customer.

As more and more people carry less and less cash, fast-food restaurants and convenience stores have decided to accept credit. One of the largest downsides is the transaction fee, which can average 20 - 25 cents, plus nearly 3% of the total sale.  So for those of you have have charged $1 (yeah, admit it, some of you have done that), it cost the store upwards of 28 cents in transaction fees.  They're willing to do it though because the guy behind you is buying $10 worth of product on plastic that he might not have purchased otherwise.

[1995hoo]

The point about the credit card fees (called the "interchange fee" in the industry) is a good one and might also be a reason why toll road operators often don't accept cards. Think about it from the point of view of paying your income tax or your personal property tax with a credit card. The government isn't about to hand over a portion of your tax payment to American Express. So the site that processes the payment tacks on a transaction fee (sort of like buying tickets from Ticketmaster) to cover the interchange fee. Whether it's worth it to you to pay that processing fee would likely depend on what sort of incentive you got for paying by credit card (for example, American Express used to have a double-points promo every April and depending on the amount of your tax payment, what you could do with the points could make it worthwhile). Or the fee might be small enough that you don't car–I think the fee was less than $5 for my car tax payment this past October and I just didn't want to deal with the hassle of sending a check since I had several other bill payments due at the same time and all carefully timed based on when money was coming in and out.

The Dulles Greenway in Virginia would be an exception to this principle because the toll road is operated by a private entity.

Electronic toll collection obviously bills to a credit card and so the toll agency has to pay the interchange fee, but I have to assume the agencies calculated out how the interchange fee balances out against the costs saved by implementing electronic tolling.


As a general matter, I think people use plastic a lot more than they did 25 and 30 years ago. A lot has changed. Gas stations almost always charged more for credit back then and many of them didn't take standard credit cards–you had to use their own card. Department store credit cards weren't store-branded VISA or MasterCard, they were just that store's card and most of the time you couldn't use them elsewhere, although here in the DC area there was a card called the "Washington Shopping Plate" that was accepted at a bunch of local stores (the last one to accept it, Hecht's, was taken over by Macy's around 2005). As I mentioned before, you didn't have the "pay-at-the-pump" type machines or the little units where you swipe your card yourself at the grocery store or McDonald's, and the current setup where a signature is not needed for purchases below some particular amount was unknown. I NEVER saw people charging $10 purchases when I was growing up.


Interesting thought occurred to me as I type this–once upon a time people said you should never use a credit card at the grocery store. I understand the concern in principle about people running up unsustainable debt due to interest rates. But the part that's interesting is that a couple of weeks ago I had one of our cars at the mechanic for a window repair and when I went to pay for it (using American Express) I asked the guy to give me one Powerball ticket as well. He told me I had to pay for the lottery ticket separately: Virginia law prohibits using a credit card to pay for a lottery ticket. I could have used debit had I been so inclined, but I do not use debit unless I have no choice (which is very, very rare).

[jeffandnicole]

As a general rule, credit cards cannot be used for gambling.  I don't know of any casino where you can stick a credit card in a machine (getting a cash advance is certainly permitted though on a credit card at a casino), and likewise I don't know of any states offhand that'll allow you to buy lottery tickets with credit as well.

Online gambling sites are just a wee-bit different though!

[kphoger]

Well it's only recently (past 5 or 10 years) that fast food decided to accept credit/debit cards at all! Fast food was a whole lot less convenient back in the dark ages when they were cash only.

I'm willing to bet it's longer than that, because I can't ever in my life recall going to a fast food restaurant and having it not accept credit cards.

I remember only being able to use cash, and I'm only 31 years old.  The most recent in my memory is probably from 2007 or so.

[1995hoo]

As a general rule, credit cards cannot be used for gambling.  I don't know of any casino where you can stick a credit card in a machine (getting a cash advance is certainly permitted though on a credit card at a casino), and likewise I don't know of any states offhand that'll allow you to buy lottery tickets with credit as well.

Online gambling sites are just a wee-bit different though!

I've almost never visited any casinos so I'll take your word for it. The only "real" ones I've visited (as opposed to on cruise ships or the ferry between Maine and Nova Scotia) were in New Orleans and on a day trip to Atlantic City and in both cases I left all my credit/debit cards in secure locations and took only the cash I was willing to lose (although I left Atlantic City with more than I had when I arrived!).

[realjd]

Well it's only recently (past 5 or 10 years) that fast food decided to accept credit/debit cards at all! Fast food was a whole lot less convenient back in the dark ages when they were cash only.

I'm willing to bet it's longer than that, because I can't ever in my life recall going to a fast food restaurant and having it not accept credit cards.

A quick googling sows that McDonalds started accepting plastic in 2004. I was in college at the time and it was remember it being a big deal for us to be able to go to the McD's across from the EE building without having to hit up an ATM. I think that corresponded with the change in rules that allowed small purchases to forgo signatures.

[cpzilliacus]

As a general rule, credit cards cannot be used for gambling.  I don't know of any casino where you can stick a credit card in a machine (getting a cash advance is certainly permitted though on a credit card at a casino), and likewise I don't know of any states offhand that'll allow you to buy lottery tickets with credit as well.

Online gambling sites are just a wee-bit different though!

I've almost never visited any casinos so I'll take your word for it. The only "real" ones I've visited (as opposed to on cruise ships or the ferry between Maine and Nova Scotia) were in New Orleans and on a day trip to Atlantic City and in both cases I left all my credit/debit cards in secure locations and took only the cash I was willing to lose (although I left Atlantic City with more than I had when I arrived!).

Last casino I visited was about 10 years ago at a gambling joint once owned in part by Frank Sinatra, until Nevada gambling regulators forced him to sell because he allegedly associated with members of organized crime.

The Calneva resort has great views of Lake Tahoe, and as the name implies, straddles the California/Nevada border south of Ca./Nev. 28 in North Lake Tahoe. 

I think I blew $20 or $30 feeding the slot machines there (to their great credit, at the time, this place had the "genuine" old-fashioned electromechanical one-armed bandits that took quarters and dispensed winnings in those genuine coins, not the noisy and obnoxious electronic slots apparently usually found in most places (I make that statement based on TV reports I've seen, as I have never set foot in a casino in Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey or Pennsylvania)).

[exit322]

Well it's only recently (past 5 or 10 years) that fast food decided to accept credit/debit cards at all! Fast food was a whole lot less convenient back in the dark ages when they were cash only.

I'm willing to bet it's longer than that, because I can't ever in my life recall going to a fast food restaurant and having it not accept credit cards.

At the Wendy's I worked at between 2001-2003, we did NOT accept credit cards.  I know that location does now, but it has been since the Summer of 2003.

[Duke87]

Well it's only recently (past 5 or 10 years) that fast food decided to accept credit/debit cards at all! Fast food was a whole lot less convenient back in the dark ages when they were cash only.

I'm willing to bet it's longer than that, because I can't ever in my life recall going to a fast food restaurant and having it not accept credit cards.

I remember discovering that Burger King accepted credit cards when I started college in 2005 and it was a new thing (advertised as "pay it your way").

I also remember that prior to ~1995 the grocery store we shopped at did not take credit cards and my mother was always stopping at the bank to get cash before going to get groceries.

We also used to take a nice shortcut through some residential streets to get from the bank to the grocery store. Back then it was no-brainer convenient. Today the route involves several speed bumps.

[MASTERNC]

Working from memory here, but don't the mainline toll booths on PA 43 (Mon-Fayette) also take credit cards?

Only commercial cards issued by the Turnpike Commission.

[Kacie Jane]

Well it's only recently (past 5 or 10 years) that fast food decided to accept credit/debit cards at all! Fast food was a whole lot less convenient back in the dark ages when they were cash only.

I'm willing to bet it's longer than that, because I can't ever in my life recall going to a fast food restaurant and having it not accept credit cards.

A quick googling sows that McDonalds started accepting plastic in 2004. I was in college at the time and it was remember it being a big deal for us to be able to go to the McD's across from the EE building without having to hit up an ATM. I think that corresponded with the change in rules that allowed small purchases to forgo signatures.

Looks like 2004 is when it went chainwide (one article says that about 3000 locations did already beforehand).  I worked at one 2002-03, and I'm pretty sure we did, but I never worked counter so I could be mistaken.

[Scott5114]

As a general rule, credit cards cannot be used for gambling.  I don't know of any casino where you can stick a credit card in a machine (getting a cash advance is certainly permitted though on a credit card at a casino), and likewise I don't know of any states offhand that'll allow you to buy lottery tickets with credit as well.

Online gambling sites are just a wee-bit different though!

This has less to do with legal issues and more to do with the logistics of having potentially thousands of credit card terminals at each machine (my casino has 2600 machines–that's a lot of credit card terminals). Allowing slot machines to access a network outside the building is also a huge gaming control issue (you don't want someone hacking into the machine). Also, if something goes wrong ("it charged my card but the money never showed up on my machine!" "that's because you tried to charge money to a machine that was out of order, idiot") then you have to get an outside vendor involved in resolving the problem, which might take time (something tells me you're not gonna be able to get ahold of someone at Visa at 3am on a Saturday night) and risks becoming a customer service and/or gaming control issue.

I think I blew $20 or $30 feeding the slot machines there (to their great credit, at the time, this place had the "genuine" old-fashioned electromechanical one-armed bandits that took quarters and dispensed winnings in those genuine coins, not the noisy and obnoxious electronic slots apparently usually found in most places (I make that statement based on TV reports I've seen, as I have never set foot in a casino in Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey or Pennsylvania)).

Coin-in/coin out machines are rightfully dead. It is much simpler for everyone involved to just have the machine keep track of a credit balance and print a cashable voucher when the gaming session is done. Printer jams are way easier to clear than coin jams, and you don't have to carry a bucket of quarters around from machine to machine. The casino doesn't have to keep a hard count room anymore, just soft count. Nobody has to be hand paid because the hopper ran out of coins. 

Not all machines these days are loud and noisy. You can still play the lower-key mechanical reel slots (although nothing is really electromechanical anymore; the reels are just a USB device these days). Those tend to lose people's interest after a while though. You can come up with a lot more interesting game play mechanics if you're not limited to spinning reels around (you can instead have the player pick things on a screen, have the reel symbols change on each spin, etc.)

[realjd]

^^^

One of the casino boats near here has the fancy electronic machines, but they're all coin. It's the only place I've seen fancy, electronic slot machines that dump quarters when you push the cash-out button.

[Scott5114]

^^^

One of the casino boats near here has the fancy electronic machines, but they're all coin. It's the only place I've seen fancy, electronic slot machines that dump quarters when you push the cash-out button.

[jeffandnicole]

Whereas those older reel slot machines were generally in denominations of 25 cents, 50 cents and $1,  It's also interesting to note that almost any new slot machine comes out in a denomination of 1 cent!

The move to the ticket voucher system instead of coins has helped move this along.  But for those that aren't familiar with gambling...you're not going to play 1 cent on many of these machines.  Quite a number of them have minimum credit requirements such as 30 cents...which may be something like 30 lines at 1 cent each.  (Some will allow you to play 1 cent as well...it all depends on the machine)

The maximums on each machine are much higher as well.  On an older reel machine, the common max on a 25c machine was 3 quarters, or 75c.  On the penny machines, using the 30 line machine mentioned above, the max credit could be 9 cents per line, or $2.70 a spin! 

The payouts can vary also.  Much like EZ Pass allows charges of odd amounts based on discounts and all (say, $4.82 for a toll that would cost a cash toll payer $6.00), these slot machines will allow you to win odd combinations as well.

[deathtopumpkins]

Much like EZ Pass allows charges of odd amounts based on discounts and all (say, $4.82 for a toll that would cost a cash toll payer $6.00)

I've noticed that. Last time I took the NYS Thruway from the Taconic State Parkway to the MassPike I got an E-ZPass discount of $0.02 ($0.43 instead of $0.45). Although I'm fairly used to odd toll amounts from ticket systems like the NJTP (I think they kept their rates at no more specific than a nickel though).