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Author Topic: North Carolina  (Read 460590 times)

RoadPelican

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2825 on: August 04, 2019, 11:00:36 AM »

The NC 24/27 Troy Bypass in Montgomery County is to open next week:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-02-troy-bypass-opens-next-week.aspx
Dang, only $45 million for 6.6 miles? That's only $6.8 million per mile... Granted, it's not a full freeway but still is new location divided highway.

Disagree with the speed limit only being 55 mph though, should be the maximum allowable 60 mph given it's a limited-access roadway. The US-17 widening south of New Bern is using the existing non-limited-access highway and even that's going to be 60 mph. Wouldn't be shocked if they increase it in a few years.

Then again, the 2 signals on the bypass could have impacted the decision to raise it... IMO, it could be 60 mph on the straightaways and lower to 55 mph by the signals, or just hold 60 mph through the signals. Even Virginia does that on non-limited-access stretches, 60 mph thru signals. Florida will post 65 mph on non-limited-access stretches and lower to 55 mph near the signals then go back up.

The Elizabethtown and Kenansville bypasses are both rural divided highways and they both only carry 55 MPH Speed Limits, that's probably where the NCDOT got the idea for the Troy Bypass. US 17 is more of a long distance corridor, the 55 MPH bypasses are probably speed traps for the locals.
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wdcrft63

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2826 on: August 05, 2019, 08:42:46 AM »

Two Greensboro questions.

(1) Does the orphan segment of Old US 421, between I-85 and I-40, have a hidden route number, primary or secondary? It doesn't seem to be signed as anything.

(2) Do we have a definite decision that Business 85 signage will be retained? It doesn't seem to be going away.
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dfilpus

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2827 on: August 05, 2019, 09:20:13 AM »

Two Greensboro questions.

(1) Does the orphan segment of Old US 421, between I-85 and I-40, have a hidden route number, primary or secondary? It doesn't seem to be signed as anything.

Old 421 is logged as SR 3762. It is a secondary state maintained route now.
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Mapmikey

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2828 on: August 05, 2019, 09:42:56 AM »

Two Greensboro questions.

(1) Does the orphan segment of Old US 421, between I-85 and I-40, have a hidden route number, primary or secondary? It doesn't seem to be signed as anything.

Old 421 is logged as SR 3762. It is a secondary state maintained route now.

definitely posted as such...

https://goo.gl/maps/aBRD93MbKKSemhBv8
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bob7374

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2829 on: August 05, 2019, 12:32:04 PM »

Two Greensboro questions.

(1) Does the orphan segment of Old US 421, between I-85 and I-40, have a hidden route number, primary or secondary? It doesn't seem to be signed as anything.

(2) Do we have a definite decision that Business 85 signage will be retained? It doesn't seem to be going away.
It may be a while as for Business 85 removal from signage. The contractor that is building the last section of the Greensboro Loop to be opened between US 29 and Lawndale Drive is, according to the sign plans, also responsible for removing references to Business 85 through Greensboro on I-40 as well as putting new I-840 signage up along the Loop south of US 29. For example, this is the sign plan at Randleman Road:


Currently, the Loop project is to be completed in November 2022 and while there's nothing to stop the sign changes from happening earlier, I suspect those will be done at the same time.

wdcrft63

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2830 on: August 05, 2019, 06:53:39 PM »

Two Greensboro questions.

(1) Does the orphan segment of Old US 421, between I-85 and I-40, have a hidden route number, primary or secondary? It doesn't seem to be signed as anything.

Old 421 is logged as SR 3762. It is a secondary state maintained route now.
Thanks. That's what I expected the answer to be. It's not a big deal, obviously, but I would have put a primary number on  the road, similar to what's planned for the to-be-orphaned section of I-74 when the Winston-Salem northeast loop is completed.
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Gnutella

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2831 on: August 07, 2019, 05:44:39 AM »

Last week I took a drive on U.S. 74/I-74 from Shelby to Whiteville, and I haz to ask: Beez there any plans to upgrade the segment from Charlotte to Rockingham to a controlled-access highway? I know there's a tollway near Monroe, but what about the rest of the way?
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Strider

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2832 on: August 07, 2019, 07:43:27 AM »

Yeah, slowly upgrading US 74 to either a freeway or expressway standards.
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froggie

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2833 on: August 07, 2019, 08:34:05 AM »

very slow
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ARMOURERERIC

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2834 on: August 07, 2019, 02:47:49 PM »

There is a stip item for design of the Wadesboro bypass.
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cowboy_wilhelm

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2835 on: August 08, 2019, 04:32:20 PM »

Speaking of the STIP and slow, even more projects have been delayed in the draft STIP. And speaking of US 74, the remaining sections of the Shelby Bypass have been delayed three years and won't get started until 2024, eleven years after the first section started construction.

I haven't had time to check it out too thoroughly, but it looks like delays everywhere. I-40, I-85, I-95 widenings, on and on.

CHANGES BETWEEN THE DRAFT STIP 20-29 January 2019 / August 2019
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LM117

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2836 on: August 08, 2019, 06:16:53 PM »

A public meeting is being held on August 13 in Raleigh to discuss widening NC-50 between I-540 and just north of NC-98.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-08-creedmoor-rd-widening-public-meeting.aspx
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LM117

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2837 on: August 08, 2019, 08:33:23 PM »

Speaking of the STIP and slow, even more projects have been delayed in the draft STIP. And speaking of US 74, the remaining sections of the Shelby Bypass have been delayed three years and won't get started until 2024, eleven years after the first section started construction.

I haven't had time to check it out too thoroughly, but it looks like delays everywhere. I-40, I-85, I-95 widenings, on and on.

CHANGES BETWEEN THE DRAFT STIP 20-29 January 2019 / August 2019

That list is a real buzzkill.
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Beltway

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2838 on: August 08, 2019, 09:16:39 PM »

Speaking of the STIP and slow, even more projects have been delayed in the draft STIP. And speaking of US 74, the remaining sections of the Shelby Bypass have been delayed three years and won't get started until 2024, eleven years after the first section started construction.
I haven't had time to check it out too thoroughly, but it looks like delays everywhere. I-40, I-85, I-95 widenings, on and on.
CHANGES BETWEEN THE DRAFT STIP 20-29 January 2019 / August 2019
That list is a real buzzkill.

Have they been issuing massive amounts of general obligation bonds to help fund all these recent projects in the last 10 years or so?  Rising amounts of debt service taking more and more funding from the TIP?
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sprjus4

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2839 on: August 09, 2019, 12:53:00 AM »

Speaking of the STIP and slow, even more projects have been delayed in the draft STIP. And speaking of US 74, the remaining sections of the Shelby Bypass have been delayed three years and won't get started until 2024, eleven years after the first section started construction.

I haven't had time to check it out too thoroughly, but it looks like delays everywhere. I-40, I-85, I-95 widenings, on and on.

CHANGES BETWEEN THE DRAFT STIP 20-29 January 2019 / August 2019

That list is a real buzzkill.
Looks like North Carolina is beginning to fall to the level that Virginia is at for funding, at least for rural projects.

This is a shame, though hopefully they’ll get it together eventually.
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74/171FAN

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2840 on: August 09, 2019, 04:57:02 AM »

A public meeting is being held on August 13 in Raleigh to discuss widening NC-50 between I-540 and just north of NC-98.

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-08-creedmoor-rd-widening-public-meeting.aspx

I drove this corridor regularly 6 years ago when I had a summer internship with NCDOT.  NC 98 seemed to be the north end of the heavy traffic.

I experienced much more congestion on NC 50 between Timber Dr in Garner and NC 42.
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LM117

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2841 on: August 09, 2019, 06:00:35 AM »

Speaking of the STIP and slow, even more projects have been delayed in the draft STIP. And speaking of US 74, the remaining sections of the Shelby Bypass have been delayed three years and won't get started until 2024, eleven years after the first section started construction.
I haven't had time to check it out too thoroughly, but it looks like delays everywhere. I-40, I-85, I-95 widenings, on and on.
CHANGES BETWEEN THE DRAFT STIP 20-29 January 2019 / August 2019
That list is a real buzzkill.

Have they been issuing massive amounts of general obligation bonds to help fund all these recent projects in the last 10 years or so?  Rising amounts of debt service taking more and more funding from the TIP?

The two primary reasons they gave for the project delays are Map Act settlements and hurricanes.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article232877827.html
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 06:04:46 AM by LM117 »
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cowboy_wilhelm

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2842 on: August 09, 2019, 06:38:10 AM »

There are the costs mentioned below, plus I think the NCDOT scheduled more projects than they had funding for before all of this started hitting. It doesn't help that we're spending millions of dollars on projects to add shoulders to roads with 10,000 cars per day so we can throw up some blue Interstate shields. Priorities.

Cost to settle landowners lawsuits could cost NCDOT more than $1 billion The News & Observer

"Three years ago, the state Supreme Court ruled that a 30-year-old law that let the Department of Transportation reserve land for future roads without actually buying it amounted to an unconstitutional taking of private property. [...] As of Friday, the state has reached settlements in about 360 Map Act cases, totaling $290 million."

Additionally...

"In more than a decade leading up to 2016, NCDOT averaged about $65 million a year in weather-related expenses, due to hurricanes, flash floods, rock slides and snow and ice. In the last three years, that number has ballooned to $225 million a year."

So, expect more projects to be delayed....
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Beltway

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2843 on: August 09, 2019, 08:05:04 AM »

That list is a real buzzkill.
Have they been issuing massive amounts of general obligation bonds to help fund all these recent projects in the last 10 years or so?  Rising amounts of debt service taking more and more funding from the TIP?
The two primary reasons they gave for the project delays are Map Act settlements and hurricanes.
Sounds like excuses to me.  A billion dollars of lawsuit settlements for advance right-of-way acquisition?  Seems to me the more logical outcome would be simply being restricted in the future from doing this, and on current projects they would simply utilize the right-of-way that was already acquired.  I don't see where they would be successfully sued for a billion dollars.

Repairing hurricane damage to roads and bridges gets huge amounts of federal funding from FEMA, which is extra federal funding over and above normal FHWA allocations.
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froggie

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2844 on: August 09, 2019, 08:23:08 AM »

Quote from: Beltway
Sounds like excuses to me.  A billion dollars of lawsuit settlements for advance right-of-way acquisition?  Seems to me the more logical outcome would be simply being restricted in the future from doing this, and on current projects they would simply utilize the right-of-way that was already acquired.  I don't see where they would be successfully sued for a billion dollars.

Given the numbers for completed settlements plus those still in the queue and lawsuits yet-to-be-filed, half-a-billion is the minimum, and a billion is not out of the question.

Quote
Repairing hurricane damage to roads and bridges gets huge amounts of federal funding from FEMA, which is extra federal funding over and above normal FHWA allocations.

But...in my experience...still isn't enough to "make things whole again".  FEMA typically doesn't reimburse 100%.
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ARMOURERERIC

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2845 on: August 09, 2019, 08:25:55 AM »

It had been posted before about political will on completing the Shelby Bypass.  As someone who lives 30 miles north off of NC18, I can tell you in reality, up until about 3-5 years ago, the local business and money interests in Shelby did NOT want this bypass.  With the NC Speaker of the House being a local, desire by business interests to drag this out may be in play.  It was not until the super Walmart and the distribution center off of NC226 opened that traffic on Dixon became an issue.  If it was not for NCDots desire for a Charlotte to Asheville interstate and those 2 Walmart traffic generating nodes, this bypass would have not even started.  Big money wants you to be stuck on Dixon.
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Beltway

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2846 on: August 09, 2019, 08:49:31 AM »

Quote from: Beltway
Sounds like excuses to me.  A billion dollars of lawsuit settlements for advance right-of-way acquisition?  Seems to me the more logical outcome would be simply being restricted in the future from doing this, and on current projects they would simply utilize the right-of-way that was already acquired.  I don't see where they would be successfully sued for a billion dollars.
Given the numbers for completed settlements plus those still in the queue and lawsuits yet-to-be-filed, half-a-billion is the minimum, and a billion is not out of the question.
What would they be suing for in the first place?  The state acquired the right-of-way.  Who is being damaged by the right-of-way sitting there not yet utilized?

I think one of the last ones in Virginia was southern VA-288, where the right-of-way was acquired thru advance right-of-way acquisition in the late 60s and not used until the late 80s.  I can see the advantages and disadvantages, but actionable in a court of law?

Quote
Repairing hurricane damage to roads and bridges gets huge amounts of federal funding from FEMA, which is extra federal funding over and above normal FHWA allocations.
But...in my experience...still isn't enough to "make things whole again".  FEMA typically doesn't reimburse 100%.
That is true, and it operates by reimbursement, so it may take months or even a year or more, but it does typically cover the vast majority.
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cowboy_wilhelm

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2847 on: August 09, 2019, 09:44:08 AM »


What would they be suing for in the first place?  The state acquired the right-of-way.  Who is being damaged by the right-of-way sitting there not yet utilized?

Did you read the article?

"Three years ago, the state Supreme Court ruled that a 30-year-old law that let the Department of Transportation reserve land for future roads without actually buying it amounted to an unconstitutional taking of private property. The ruling on the Map Act opened the way for hundreds of landowners to seek compensation for property the NCDOT had locked up for years."

We're still waiting on federal money from Matthew three years ago. What about areas that didn't receive a federal disaster declaration? US 401 in June. How much to rebuild this road you've never heard of in Polk County and the failing drainage system above it on I-26?

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sprjus4

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2848 on: August 09, 2019, 10:16:09 AM »

What would they be suing for in the first place?  The state acquired the right-of-way.  Who is being damaged by the right-of-way sitting there not yet utilized?
The state never acquired the right of way, they created a protected corridor and restricted rights of land owners like building a subdivision, etc. without properly reimbursing them.

I agree, if the state owns the right of way, then that’s the states to do what they want with. But the state didn’t own it or pay for it yet still forced restrictions.
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Beltway

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2849 on: August 09, 2019, 01:28:52 PM »

What would they be suing for in the first place?  The state acquired the right-of-way.  Who is being damaged by the right-of-way sitting there not yet utilized?
Did you read the article?
"Three years ago, the state Supreme Court ruled that a 30-year-old law that let the Department of Transportation reserve land for future roads without actually buying it amounted to an unconstitutional taking of private property. The ruling on the Map Act opened the way for hundreds of landowners to seek compensation for property the NCDOT had locked up for years."
Many counties all over the country do that all the time, restricting development types and patterns and quantities, without compensating any landowners in the vicinity.

Are they prevented from farming and ranching on that land?  Are they prevented from living in rental properties on that land?

We're still waiting on federal money from Matthew three years ago. What about areas that didn't receive a federal disaster declaration? US 401 in June. How much to rebuild this road you've never heard of in Polk County and the failing drainage system above it on I-26?
What happened to that highway?

According to the rainfall basin from Matthew there was no significant impact that far west --
https://www.weather.gov/chs/HurricaneMatthew-Oct2016
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