North Carolina

[roadman65]

This is NC 33 Westbound in Whitakers.  Neither city is indirectly served by this route let alone directly.
Why are both these cities even control points?

I-95 is the only explanation,  but for Red Oak, it requires a double back on NC 43.

[NE2]

Keep going past the end of NC 33: https://maps.app.goo.gl/ovPw4FrWB3pNHuTx7
The road curves left and takes you directly to Red Oak and the outskirts of Nashville.

[Mapmikey]

This is NC 33 Westbound in Whitakers.  Neither city is indirectly served by this route let alone directly.
Why are both these cities even control points?

I-95 is the only explanation,  but for Red Oak, it requires a double back on NC 43.

There is another mileage assembly for both just past NC 4-48 - https://maps.app.goo.gl/yrn8QxtrMugc8HPg9

you're supposed to go via SR 1003 - https://maps.app.goo.gl/exnYEzFieRkijpa2A
here is SR 1003 at NC 43 in Red Oak - https://maps.app.goo.gl/RYRcRsGyZ8Rc7i9w8

you are also directed to Red Oak from NC 4-48 SB to turn right - https://maps.app.goo.gl/r6uGTWHRJZ7LsubZ8

you are directed to Red Oak from the US 64 interchange in Nashville to use SR 1003 -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/nGDSJrTtv5Gaa32Z7

as well as US 64 Business leaving Eastern Ave in Nashville - https://maps.app.goo.gl/SXKQXvaiCfh89E95A

[architect77]

So looking at this - it's also a matter of perspective.  Some overhead signs look different because the original sign was ground mounted and may have mentioned a town versus a road.  These make for long rectangular signs.

I'm posting from my phone so I apologize for links vs the photo

Let's take Exit 44 on I-26 (US 25 North / Bus 25 South). Prior to widening the original ground mounted sign said "Mtn (Mountain) Home  / Fletcher"

https://flic.kr/p/2rxvCMZ

The new overhead sign only uses Asheville Highway. 

https://flic.kr/p/2rxq4p4

The same was done for other exits the US 64 interchange no longer includes "Bat Cave"

Then - considering the photo uses some Raleigh signs including from the 440 Beltlone - signs that are way too large. Like this one at the Glennwood Avenue interchange, for example.

https://flic.kr/p/2qSetJT

Other examples of signs looking odd because they are now overhead vs. ground mounted occur on the recently widened stretches of I-95.


Wade-Stedman Road
https://flic.kr/p/2raRBUe

Murphy Road:
https://flic.kr/p/2raRBPp

I don't think it is as much cutting corners as you are making it out to be.  Some are for exits that don't have a lot of information that are now on overheads because of widening projects.  I hope my examples show that.

Those tiny signs mounted 2 together (Wilson's Mills Road) is a brand new aesthetic that's subpar in my opinion to every other cantilevered sign anywhere in the state. Now there are some small overhead signs for minor road exits on large gantries with other large signs which is nice as it conveys the hierarchy of importance of the mentioned road. But never before have such skinny signs been mounted on single pole cantilevered overheads.

It is not elegant, you will never see that level of close cropping around the words with so little green background in NY or FL.

The Mt. Hope Church Rd. thin replacement looks cheap as the truss holding the old version of the same sign was much larger and an appropriate size.

The Louisburg exit sign is cropped closer than any other sign in the entire state that I've ever seen.

Prior to 2020 NCDOT's signage used to be almost like works of art, perfectly positioned words. The Beltline signage was a prime example up until this recent work. All of the signs at Glenwood, Capital and Wade Ave to the airport were perfect in every way.

I guess I pay attention to graphic design details that others don't think is important, but I consider it the voice of the state.

And what ever happened to NC's adoption of using oversized lettering to accommodate the US's aging population of drivers? The sign for I-485 Pineville in Charlotte features the larger lettering that NCDOT briefly adopted about 15 years ago, but since signage has been "normal" sized like before.

Meanwhile, Georgia ditched it's condensed typeface and went all out big on sign size and lettering. As a result, Georgia signage is commanding new respect never seen before.

Oh well, I guess I'm overreacting to the watering down of NC's past legacy of the highest standards. If I kind find some historic photos from NC's highway signage from long ago I will post. It was impressive way back then too.

abernathy1 by Stephen Edwards, on Flickr

[jcil4ever]

This is NC 33 Westbound in Whitakers.  Neither city is indirectly served by this route let alone directly.
Why are both these cities even control points?

I-95 is the only explanation,  but for Red Oak, it requires a double back on NC 43.

I grew up near here and saw this recently going to Medoc "Mountain." Personally, it seems like it would make some sense to extend NC-33 along SR-1003 (with route described by @Mapmikey ) through Red Oak to Nashville at US-64/US-64 Business. Perhaps the traffic counts don't warrant it?

[sprjus4]

I'm still not understanding the signing issue here. Those North Carolina signs look perfectly fine, and arguably better than most states.

[D-Dey65]

I just found an article on roundabout hazards in North Carolina, though this could apply to other states as well;
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/a-north-carolina-roundabout-is-so-dangerous-it-s-changing/ar-AA1QKtXt?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=691ea04355104e92bdb67f8db1e2dcd9&ei=81

[Strider]

I'm still not understanding the signing issue here. Those North Carolina signs look perfectly fine, and arguably better than most states.

The guy is just picky about the signages. They look fine to me too.

[roadman65]

This is NC 33 Westbound in Whitakers.  Neither city is indirectly served by this route let alone directly.
Why are both these cities even control points?

I-95 is the only explanation,  but for Red Oak, it requires a double back on NC 43.

There is another mileage assembly for both just past NC 4-48 - https://maps.app.goo.gl/yrn8QxtrMugc8HPg9

you're supposed to go via SR 1003 - https://maps.app.goo.gl/exnYEzFieRkijpa2A
here is SR 1003 at NC 43 in Red Oak - https://maps.app.goo.gl/RYRcRsGyZ8Rc7i9w8

you are also directed to Red Oak from NC 4-48 SB to turn right - https://maps.app.goo.gl/r6uGTWHRJZ7LsubZ8

you are directed to Red Oak from the US 64 interchange in Nashville to use SR 1003 -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/nGDSJrTtv5Gaa32Z7

as well as US 64 Business leaving Eastern Ave in Nashville - https://maps.app.goo.gl/SXKQXvaiCfh89E95A

On my computer the Google Map of the area shows SR 1003 very faint. So the continuation of NC 33 just heads west and north-west to NC 43 well north of Red Oak where that route curves.

However seeing SR 1003 now makes sense.  I did go on street view to see NC 33 at NC 4 & 48 but didnt find the mileage sign there.  Plus the SB NC 4 & 48 I never checked for control cities there.

Well now it makes sense finally seeing SR 1003,

[jdunlop]

I just found an article on roundabout hazards in North Carolina, though this could apply to other states as well;
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/a-north-carolina-roundabout-is-so-dangerous-it-s-changing/ar-AA1QKtXt?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=691ea04355104e92bdb67f8db1e2dcd9&ei=81

What a horrible (likely AI) 'written article.  Nowhere in that article does it name the "troubled roundabout", had to click on one link to find another terribly written article, but finally said "Pinehurst Traffic Circle."

Not a modern roundabout but an old traffic circle from the '60s that has way too much traffic.  Likewise, the picture in the first article, with the concentric circle lanes, is not a modern roundabout either.

North Carolina is one of the leaders in installing roundabouts, with the first modern roundabout built in 1999 (unlike the article which said that NC only "recently embraced" roundabouts.)

If you're going to knock roundabouts, at least find a better base article to use.

[D-Dey65]

Hey, I'm not trying to say that all roundabouts are bad. I do think many are built just for the sake of it and/or to impress special interest groups often without considering their impact on the mobility of motorists, but that doesn't mean I'm completely knocking them. FDOT has been talking about building on at US 17 and SR 40 in Barberville, but I think it's a bad idea because of the close proximity to the crossing of the Sanford Subdivision. At SRs 11 and 40, it might be okay.

[brian440i]

I just found an article on roundabout hazards in North Carolina, though this could apply to other states as well;
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/a-north-carolina-roundabout-is-so-dangerous-it-s-changing/ar-AA1QKtXt?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=691ea04355104e92bdb67f8db1e2dcd9&ei=81

Just a Note that Reverse Image Look-up shows its a Free Image and not an image of a Round-about in N.C.  Its rare to have two lane roundabouts in NC.  In Raleigh, the 1st Roundabout on Hillsborough started off two lanes and was quickly changed to a single lane in fron of the NC State Wolfpack Bell Tower due to the accidents.

In general they are great,  all the new ones along Future I-74 to Wilmington for example

[jdunlop]

I just found an article on roundabout hazards in North Carolina, though this could apply to other states as well;
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/a-north-carolina-roundabout-is-so-dangerous-it-s-changing/ar-AA1QKtXt?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=691ea04355104e92bdb67f8db1e2dcd9&ei=81

Just a Note that Reverse Image Look-up shows its a Free Image and not an image of a Round-about in N.C.  Its rare to have two lane roundabouts in NC.  In Raleigh, the 1st Roundabout on Hillsborough started off two lanes and was quickly changed to a single lane in fron of the NC State Wolfpack Bell Tower due to the accidents.

In general they are great,  all the new ones along Future I-74 to Wilmington for example

The one on Hillsborough was the first 2x2, meaning two lanes crossing two lanes.  The rightmost lane drivers didn't yield to the rightmost circulating lane, causing most of those crashes.  2x1 roundabouts (two lanes on the main road, with one entering from the minor leg) haven't shown the same issue.  I don't have my (now out of date) inventory spreadsheet handy, but IIRC, about 10-15% of NC roundabouts are multi lane. So somewhere around 60-75.

The I-74 ones were installed to help prevent wrong-way driving, making it difficult to enter the (new) freeway on the wrong side. That, and solving some geometric problems and/or saving properties at the new interchanges.  The one at Breadman in particular saved the only gas station within miles of the small community.

[architect77]

I just found an article on roundabout hazards in North Carolina, though this could apply to other states as well;
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/a-north-carolina-roundabout-is-so-dangerous-it-s-changing/ar-AA1QKtXt?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=691ea04355104e92bdb67f8db1e2dcd9&ei=81

Just a Note that Reverse Image Look-up shows its a Free Image and not an image of a Round-about in N.C.  Its rare to have two lane roundabouts in NC.  In Raleigh, the 1st Roundabout on Hillsborough started off two lanes and was quickly changed to a single lane in fron of the NC State Wolfpack Bell Tower due to the accidents.

In general they are great,  all the new ones along Future I-74 to Wilmington for example

The one on Hillsborough was the first 2x2, meaning two lanes crossing two lanes.  The rightmost lane drivers didn't yield to the rightmost circulating lane, causing most of those crashes.  2x1 roundabouts (two lanes on the main road, with one entering from the minor leg) haven't shown the same issue.  I don't have my (now out of date) inventory spreadsheet handy, but IIRC, about 10-15% of NC roundabouts are multi lane. So somewhere around 60-75.

The I-74 ones were installed to help prevent wrong-way driving, making it difficult to enter the (new) freeway on the wrong side. That, and solving some geometric problems and/or saving properties at the new interchanges.  The one at Breadman in particular saved the only gas station within miles of the small community.

Your description of the 2 lane traffic circle sounds like the same rules for Mass. rotaries, where I remember on cape Cod you could enter at a high rate of speed in the right outer lane without yielding to cars already in the circle.

I think though that they were big enough circles to accommodate higher speeds so maybe the diameters of the circles have an effect on the crash rates with smaller ones concentrating traffic together making them more difficult to navigate.

[jdunlop]

I just found an article on roundabout hazards in North Carolina, though this could apply to other states as well;
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/a-north-carolina-roundabout-is-so-dangerous-it-s-changing/ar-AA1QKtXt?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=691ea04355104e92bdb67f8db1e2dcd9&ei=81

Just a Note that Reverse Image Look-up shows its a Free Image and not an image of a Round-about in N.C.  Its rare to have two lane roundabouts in NC.  In Raleigh, the 1st Roundabout on Hillsborough started off two lanes and was quickly changed to a single lane in fron of the NC State Wolfpack Bell Tower due to the accidents.

In general they are great,  all the new ones along Future I-74 to Wilmington for example

The one on Hillsborough was the first 2x2, meaning two lanes crossing two lanes.  The rightmost lane drivers didn't yield to the rightmost circulating lane, causing most of those crashes.  2x1 roundabouts (two lanes on the main road, with one entering from the minor leg) haven't shown the same issue.  I don't have my (now out of date) inventory spreadsheet handy, but IIRC, about 10-15% of NC roundabouts are multi lane. So somewhere around 60-75.

The I-74 ones were installed to help prevent wrong-way driving, making it difficult to enter the (new) freeway on the wrong side. That, and solving some geometric problems and/or saving properties at the new interchanges.  The one at Breadman in particular saved the only gas station within miles of the small community.

Your description of the 2 lane traffic circle sounds like the same rules for Mass. rotaries, where I remember on cape Cod you could enter at a high rate of speed in the right outer lane without yielding to cars already in the circle.

I think though that they were big enough circles to accommodate higher speeds so maybe the diameters of the circles have an effect on the crash rates with smaller ones concentrating traffic together making them more difficult to navigate.

The diameter of the roundabout correlates to the speed entering, and to the crash rate.  As an example, the Pinehurst circle has an inscribed diameter of about 600'; a typical single lane roundabout is around 120', dual lane one around 180'.  Mini-roundabouts, diameter ~60-70', have shown to be effective in traffic operations and crash reduction.  Also, remember that the old rotaries gave the approach the right-of-way, not the circulating road.

One issue I heard regarding the Hillsborough St. roundabout, and the issues with the non-yielding; one reporter said he couldn't understand the operation, with the yield sign, he thought it was a "merge" instead of an intersection (and kept putting that in his articles about the roundabout.) And that the outer lane could just continue on at speed like an highway ramp merge. Even 25 years after first going in here, education is still needed.  Also why the 2x2 roundabouts are rare in NC.  (The two lanes on the side street approach doesn't include a separated right-turn lane; we'd still consider that a 2x1 since only one lane crosses the main road's two lanes.)

(Side note to my previous comment; I said the town of Breadman on I-74 east of Lumberton, it's Boardman.  Must have had the old restaurant in Chapel Hill on my mind!)

[Dirt Roads]

(Side note to my previous comment; I said the town of Breadman on I-74 east of Lumberton, it's Boardman.  Must have had the old restaurant in Chapel Hill on my mind!)

I noticed at the end of summer that Breadmans had new owners and has moved next to Great Harvest on Elliott Street (and unfortunately Great Harvest has since closed).  Officially, Breadmans has also changed its name to Breadmens, but the last time I was over that way the sign over the new store still had the old spelling (so does some of the Breadmens' Facebook page).  When I was working at TTA back 20 years ago, my employer had their Christmas party at the old Breadmans on Rosemary Street and it was fantastic.  Hope the new one is as goodular.

[jdunlop]

I noticed at the end of summer that Breadmans had new owners and has moved next to Great Harvest on Elliott Street (and unfortunately Great Harvest has since closed).  Officially, Breadmans has also changed its name to Breadmens, but the last time I was over that way the sign over the new store still had the old spelling (so does some of the Breadmens' Facebook page).  When I was working at TTA back 20 years ago, my employer had their Christmas party at the old Breadmans on Rosemary Street and it was fantastic.  Hope the new one is as goodular.

Ate there fairly regularly when I worked in Carrboro ('85-'89) first in its original location, and then in the old Western Sizzler (or whatever that steakhouse was called.). Went back occasionally if I had meeting in Orange county, but probably haven't been there in 15 years or more.

[froggie]

Also, remember that the old rotaries gave the approach the right-of-way, not the circulating road.

Except in Massachusetts.  It has long been established in state law that traffic in the circle has right-of-way over entering traffic.

[jcil4ever]

Noticed signage has been updated along I-95 for the new interchange with US-64 & Sunset Ave.


However...I don't think Exits 138BC both go to 64 East...nor 64 East to Raleigh 🤦

[epzik8]

Congrats to NC on the much deserved completion of the Fayetteville Outer Loop.

[ARMOURERERIC]

Went on a drive thru the US 221 construction zone for the Rutherfordton bypass today.  At Charlotte Road, the southern terminus of the current work, final bulk grading is complete in the Southeast quadrant ramp area, hydroseeding is down on the grade surfaces, but it looks like final fine grading for the ramps still needs to be done.  No grading work has occurred in the southwest quadrant which, going by the current advanced completion state of the project, makes me wonder if they will open it using the southeast quadrant ramps in a temporary setup.  Crossed mainline on Green Street Bridge, looks like final mainline pavement is placed down to at least Charlotte Rd, the final course on the shoulders still needs to be done.  At the Mountain Street, US 64 overcrossing, all the islands and median concrete is in place, with traffic in a 2 lane configuration on the north side of the bridge.  Lots of new progress along existing 221 north of town. The access to old 221 across from Xullard Ge real is permanently closed with tie in grading northbound in progress.  North of DG to the northern project limit, the new southbound carriageway is nearing completion on the sub base.  I don't know if there is a shutdown season in this part of NC for asphalt, but if not, I could see this paved and traffic switched to the new south carriageway by Christmas.

[jcil4ever]

Two projects opened in the last month or so along I-95 in NC:

The Fayetteville Outer Loop (I-295) opened on November 25. Here's a 360º drive (you can pan around):

(alternative traditional 4k video)

The reconfiguration of the US-64 exit (138) to include Sunset Ave. fully opened this week:

(alternative traditional 4k video)

You can open the video descriptions for time stamps to jump around.

I couldn't help but notice NCDOT didn't prioritize fonts on several of their Liberty➡️Bragg sign changes...Bless their hearts!

[The Ghostbuster]

It seems the change back to the Fort Bragg name was to honor World War II American paratrooper Roland L. Bragg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_L._Bragg). It, of course, was formerly named after Confederate general and slave-owner Braxton Bragg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braxton_Bragg). Fortunately, the two were not related.

[PColumbus73]

Two projects opened in the last month or so along I-95 in NC:

The Fayetteville Outer Loop (I-295) opened on November 25. Here's a 360º drive (you can pan around):

(alternative traditional 4k video)

The reconfiguration of the US-64 exit (138) to include Sunset Ave. fully opened this week:

(alternative traditional 4k video)

You can open the video descriptions for time stamps to jump around.

I couldn't help but notice NCDOT didn't prioritize fonts on several of their Liberty➡️Bragg sign changes...Bless their hearts!

Considering this is the second time they have had to change signs for Fort Bragg/Liberty, I don't blame them.

[jcil4ever]

Considering this is the second time they have had to change signs for Fort Bragg/Liberty, I don't blame them.

I was trying to see any evidence of them just removing "Liberty" covers to reveal the "Bragg" underneath 😂