Cities where development does not follow the freeway

[cpzilliacus]

New York, where the freeways were just stuck in long after development occurred. You don't see freeway-related development until you get out to I-287 in NJ.

And not so far from I-287, I have always found the lack of freeway-oriented development along I-87 between the N.Y. 17 interchange at Suffern/Sloatsburg/Ramapo (Exit 15A) and N.Y. 17 at Harriman/Woodbury (Exit 16) to be a source of amusement - and something to be pointed out to the "freeways cause sprawl" crowd.

That has a lot to do with the fact that the Thruway is on the edge of Harriman State Park.  Furthermore, them not adding another interchange in between is a help in that matter.  The Old NY 210, I am surprised that they have not interchanged it especially with Greenwood Lake and the Sherwood Forest attraction.  Hope they never do either, leave it as is.  Too much sprawl and most of it encourages overcrowding of existing roadways plus environmental pollution and the shifting of classes as farther development from city centers leads to other issues as well.

[Emphasis added above]

I presume that the parkland is off-limits to development (that is nearly always the case in the U.S.), but there still appears to be a fair amount of vacant and possibly developable land on the west side of the Thruway along N.Y. 17 between Ramapo and N.Y. 17A.  But it is mostly untouched, and I assert that the lack of access to the Thruway is the primary reason.

Compare and contrast with the development around Exit 16 and Exit 17. 

As a former head of statewide planning who I know pretty well said at a public meeting - "if you don't want land use changes caused by a new or existing highway, then don't provide access to the highway."

[cpzilliacus]

Absolutely correct. "OMG all this sprawl and no one lives in t3h Meadowlands."

Lack of access to the Turnpike and "free" roads helps to keep the development away - but - given that most (maybe all) of the  Meadowlands are considered wetlands under federal law, I would assume it would be nearly impossible to get approval from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to fill any part of them in for development.   

[D-Dey65]

New York, where the freeways were just stuck in long after development occurred. You don't see freeway-related development until you get out to I-287 in NJ.

Especially on Long Island, where the development that takes place never has anything to do with freeways, let alone expressways.

[Alps]

New York, where the freeways were just stuck in long after development occurred. You don't see freeway-related development until you get out to I-287 in NJ.

Especially on Long Island, where the development that takes place never has anything to do with freeways, let alone expressways.

False, though. All of that development was spurred by the initial construction of the Southern and Northern State Parkways, exacerbated by the LIE and Sunrise Highway.

[D-Dey65]

False, though. All of that development was spurred by the initial construction of the Southern and Northern State Parkways, exacerbated by the LIE and Sunrise Highway.

But those roads were never completed, and development takes place beyond the points where they were truncated anyhow.

[Alps]

False, though. All of that development was spurred by the initial construction of the Southern and Northern State Parkways, exacerbated by the LIE and Sunrise Highway.

But those roads were never completed, and development takes place beyond the points where they were truncated anyhow.

But if not for those roads, the development would not have reached that far out. This is well documented, I'm not just making it up; I read multiple sources in compiling a Cross Bronx/Moses paper in college, and that's where I learned about it.

[getemngo]

<two different posts in this thread>

Surprised you didn't mention DeKalb! Both of the exits on I-88, despite being within or bumping against the southern city limits, are almost completely rural. Nor is there much development around NIU on the west side. Looks like the bulk of it is in the northeast, on IL 23 heading toward Sycamore.

It's probably a lot more common on toll highways like this.

[FightingIrish]

In West Allis and Greenfield, WI, I-894, which has been around since the 60s, still goes through a lot of residential areas, and the layouts suggest obliviousness to the freeway. Most of the commercial development is along WIS 100, Layton Av. and a few major north-south streets.

Meanwhile, on the Zoo Fwy past the terminus of I-894 (US 45, soon to be I-41) most of the commercial development in Milwaukee County along the freeway is office and industrial in nature, though Burleigh St. is becoming a big retail strip with the addition of a big box strip mall along the freeway (the old Roundy's distribution center) and allegedly, a Meijer store. Lowes, Aldi and Office Max are already on the west side of the interchange.

[D-Dey65]

False, though. All of that development was spurred by the initial construction of the Southern and Northern State Parkways, exacerbated by the LIE and Sunrise Highway.

But those roads were never completed, and development takes place beyond the points where they were truncated anyhow.

But if not for those roads, the development would not have reached that far out. This is well documented, I'm not just making it up; I read multiple sources in compiling a Cross Bronx/Moses paper in college, and that's where I learned about it.

And I've read road maps that show developments pre-dating the Long Island Expressway that were never carried out according to their original plans because the Expressway went through where they were supposed to have been built. Furthermore, there are developments east of Long Island Expressway and mansions east of Sunrise Highway that were built in places where both those highways were supposed to have been expanded. And the sections of the Bronx that surround the Cross Bronx Expressway were already developed.

[Pete from Boston]

Absolutely correct. "OMG all this sprawl and no one lives in t3h Meadowlands."

Lack of access to the Turnpike and "free" roads helps to keep the development away - but - given that most (maybe all) of the  Meadowlands are considered wetlands under federal law, I would assume it would be nearly impossible to get approval from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to fill any part of them in for development.

Lots of the Meadowlands has been filled in for development.  You ever seen a Giants game?  There are people who will tell you that the New Jersey Meadowlands Commission is pretty much in the business of developing the Meadowlands.

Click around and see:

http://www.clui.org/content/points-interest-meadowlands

[mgk920]

I like how Delaware has kept a leash on development near the newest freeway by limiting the amount of interchanges through Kent County.

I believe that is what Kokomo, IN is trying to do with zoning issues around the new US 31 freeway as to keep development away from the new road and have it sprawl along the existing US 31.  They actually learned it the hard way when they first bypassed Kokomo as the current US 31 is the epicenter of that areas boom!

Ditto along the US 10 west freeway here in the Appleton, WI area - WisDOT purposely built no interchanges along it between WI 76 (old US 45) and the US 45 Winchester Interchange when the highway was completed in 2003.  The part between WI 76 and the US(I)-41 Bridgeview Interchange was completed several years earlier.  There is typical suburban-style development in the township area around its interchange with County 'CB' (the unnamed 'Westside Arterial'), its first interchange west of US (I)-41, which was already under way before the highway was built, and some very minor commercial activity at WI 76, but the remainder of the highway is still through very much wide-open farming countryside that has seen zero development activity.

Mike

[texaskdog]

Apple Valley, MN. Due to protected land, there was no commercial development near I-35E or at the southern fringe of MN 77. Instead, all the commercial development centered around County 42 and Cedar Avenue, the busiest non-freeways in the city. It is a pain in the ass; both are major commuting roads.

The busiest non-state highway in the state?  It should have been one but that type of road tends to non be a state highway anymore, at least in MN

[mrsman]

In Sacramento, suburban areas which revolted against planned freeways (Citrus Heights, Orangevale, Carmichael) all seemed to have been developed by the late 1970s.  Sunrise Mall in particular, in Citrus Heights, is nowhere near a freeway, though it would have been near the unbuilt Route 102/Route 65 junction.

When I lived in the Sacramento area in the late 1990's, it always surprised me that most of the development followed all the major freeway corridors except for I-5 north.  Fairly soon after leaving Downtown Sacramento, it was fairly rural through the Natomas area.  Recently, that corridor is getting some development though.

Even though not that close to I-80, I always considered Citrus Heights, Orangevale, and Carmichael to be infill of the Biz-80/I-80 corridor.  El Camino and Marconi reach Biz-80 and those roads just continued east to reach the development.

[roadman65]

In New Jersey it always surprised me that development along I-80 stops along at Netcong while the other E-W interstate has constant development all the way out to the Delaware River.

I am glad, though, as many of the Hunderton County development has consumed a lot of rural land along I-78.  It makes me wonder if Warren County has stricter environmental laws or strong building codes, as that area west of Netcong to the Delaware River is in that county.  Plus, I-78 only cuts across the southern end of Warren with only 3 interchanges  in six miles (2 of them partial) and one only somewhat only developed either for the short stretch between Hunderton and the Delaware.  Only Phillipsburg has some retail development along US 22 near Exit 3, but other than that Warren County is pretty much rural and sparsely populated.

[SFPredsFan]

In Metro Nashville, I've always wondered why there is very little if any development on the NW part of the city on I-24 west even though it's almost a straight shot to downtown. But the SE part of Metro on I-24 east all the way to Murfreesboro has boomed. The west loop of Briley Parkway that was completed in the 80's hasn't been developed now for 20+ years. Finally, although SR840 has only been completed for a year, you can't find so much as a gas station on any exit on the entire route as far as I've seen.

[hbelkins]

Thought of another city. Charleston, WV. There is some development at the Cross Lanes exit on I-64 and the Kanawha City area where the Turnpike intersects WV 61, but the majority of the development is on the south side of town along US 119.

[formulanone]

Most of I-95 in Florida, north of Stuart to and south of Palm Bay doesn't seem to notice that the Interstate is there; it follows along US 1. The planned-village-neighborhood of Tradition is the exception, although there wasn't much there until 2007 or so.

Although that's probably because I-95 wasn't completed in much of that area until 1987, the Atlantic Ocean/beaches east of it, and the swampy terrain west of it probably lends a hand to this phenomenon...

[TheStranger]

In Sacramento, suburban areas which revolted against planned freeways (Citrus Heights, Orangevale, Carmichael) all seemed to have been developed by the late 1970s.  Sunrise Mall in particular, in Citrus Heights, is nowhere near a freeway, though it would have been near the unbuilt Route 102/Route 65 junction.

When I lived in the Sacramento area in the late 1990's, it always surprised me that most of the development followed all the major freeway corridors except for I-5 north.  Fairly soon after leaving Downtown Sacramento, it was fairly rural through the Natomas area.  Recently, that corridor is getting some development though.

The edge of developed Natomas is now further north than it was in the 90s - basically out towards Elkhorn Boulevard's junction with Route 99.

Even though not that close to I-80, I always considered Citrus Heights, Orangevale, and Carmichael to be infill of the Biz-80/I-80 corridor.  El Camino and Marconi reach Biz-80 and those roads just continued east to reach the development.

The area where Business 80 was built was pretty much developed at the same time as the freeway (1940s-1950s), North Sacramento being noticeably older than Arden.

Now, for something that kinda fits the thread concept again - but only slightly - Folsom, where the development is primarily along former US 50 (Folsom Boulevard, old town, Bidwell Street) rather than the newer El Dorado Freeway alignment - though in recent years the area where Bidwell meets the freeway has become very suburbanized.

[golden eagle]

Hattiesburg, MS, doesn't have a lot of development along I-59. The U.S. 98 corridor is booming west of of the interstate. 59, so to speak, just happens to be in the way.

I also find it rather odd that there's not as much development on I-20 west of Atlanta as there is on all the other interstates in the city.

[doorknob60]

All 3 (or 4) of the Tri Cities (WA). Kennewick's development is mostly along US-395. Richland's is along George Washington Way (although both cities have sort of leaked along the WA-240 corridor, but I wouldn't say the development follows 240; I'd say this development is centered around Columbia Center Blvd). Pasco is now getting new development along I-182, but for quite a while there wasn't a whole lot along 182 west of the 395 jct. And for West Richland, everything is along WA-224 and Bombing Range Rd. And of course, I-82 completely bypasses everything.

[hbelkins]

I keep coming up with West Virginia examples. Beckley is another one. There are some highway businesses at the WV 3 and WV 97 exits on I-77/I-64, but most of the development is along the US 19 corridor on the east side of town.

[sandiaman]

New Mexico's second  city, Las Cruces would follow  that  pattern.  Very little  development along I- 10  from the  south or west.  Most  commercial growth has been along I-25  or  US 70.

[roadman65]

I was noticing that in Dallas, the development does not follow I-45 like it does for I-30.  In fact the typical interstate interchange does not begin until several miles south of I-20.

I do not know about I-20 as that is one DFW Metroplex freeway I have yet to clinch.

In New Jersey I can say that I-78 and I-195 do not have too much development on them.  I-78, for one, is mostly built through residential areas including Newark where is passes through the Weeqhaic Neighborhood, a highly urban residential area.  So you will not find many Wal Marts, McDonalds and even too many motels east of Clinton, NJ.  I-195 is mostly rural farm land, but being close to the NJ shore there is no demand for typical interstate interchange development other than gas stations.

[wxfree]

I was noticing that in Dallas, the development does not follow I-45 like it does for I-30.  In fact the typical interstate interchange does not begin until several miles south of I-20.

I do not know about I-20 as that is one DFW Metroplex freeway I have yet to clinch.

Those two are strange to me, too.  Even north of I-20, I-45 is like a drive in the country, not far from downtown.  I don't know if it has to do with the flood plains or what, but that area seems to repel development.

I-20 is (or seems to me) more rural on the Dallas side than the Fort Worth side.  The speed limit is higher to the east, 65 in Dallas County and 60 in Tarrant.  Before environmental speed limits it was 70 in Dallas and 65 in Tarrant.  There's even a piece of it west of Spur 408 that, other than massive 8-lane freeway, almost seems like a rural Hill Country highway.

Also, I-35E seems to get more urban for a while going south from I-20, away from Dallas.  This may have to do with zoning and other municipal regulations in DeSoto and Lancaster compared with Dallas, which ends right about at I-20.

[roadman65]

I am wondering if it has to do with the suburbs along the way.  I-30 to the east passes through Mesquite, among many other cities, where I-45 does not have anything as far as corporated cities.  The ironic thing is in I-45's other metro area it is over developed leading in to Houston Metro coming from the DFW direction.  From Huntsville southward to Galveston, the I-45 corridor is loaded with development especially from The Woodlands to the 610 Loop where every chain store and restaurant fills the two service roads on both sides non stop.

The same goes in New Jersey.  Though the Garden State there is no unicorporated areas whatsoever!  If you compare I-80 to I-78 they both regress outward from NYC through different community types.  I-78 has Newark, Hillside, Union, Springfield, Summit, Berkley Heights, and Watchung to start things with heading westward.  I-80 has Teaneck, Hackensack, Hasbrouck Heights, Lodi, Saddle Brook, Elmwood Park, Paterson, and West Paterson to start its westward trek.  Plus I-78 is severed by a mountain from its companion US route unlike I-80 which basically within a mile of its mate US 46 except in Western NJ where US 46 deviates several miles from I-80.

Through Newark I-78 is mostly industrial (near Newark Liberty Airport) and through a socially classed residential neighborhood before entering industrialized Hillside.  Hillside has many abandoned buildings that Home Depot or Wal Mart could use, but lack of interchanges makes it not feasible.  Union is built through its Vauxhall neighborhood where homes made it residential long before the interstate was even conceived and only two partial interchanges.  Springfield has only one interchange with another freeway and also a bedroom township.  Summit and Berkley Heights cannot develop as that is within the five mile contraversial area that took NJ years to build do to concerns about the environment so no place to even build there.  Watchung is part of Somerset County, NJ (the same county that killed I-95 through Central Jersey) which is highly a bedroom community with a lot of clout in stopping such development.  Then westward office parks take over to almost Phillipsburg as prime development.

I-80 has residential Teaneck it passes, plus industrial Hackensack before entering Hasbrouck Heights which has NJ 17 already developed.  Then as it enters only a small piece of Lodi it is again industrial before it enters Saddle Brook which does have hotels for travelers at the Garden State Parkway interchange.  Then both Elmwood Park and Paterson have their own stories to tell as it is mainly residential and urban downtown with West Paterson a bedroom community on the border of Totawa that has retail, office, and hotel development that cares for both of these.  Then the rest are along retail and commercial areas of towns it passes along with its companion US 46 within reach.

Basically it is the area, the population, social class, and environment that has to do with it along with the demand of the users that determine what should get built.