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STAY IN LANE in tunnel…why?

Started by briantroutman, August 26, 2013, 04:03:31 AM

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briantroutman

I just returned from a weekend in LA, and driving through the Gaviota Tunnel above Santa Barbara on 101, it occurred to me that all of the multi-lane tunnels I've encountered in my adopted home state freely allow lane changes within the tunnel.

Contrast that with my native state, and absolutely every tunnel I can think of–all of the Turnpike tunnels, Squirrel Hill, Fort Pitt–expressly prohibit changing lanes in the tunnel and usually emphasize the restriction with a double white line separating the lanes. (I don't consider the cut-and-fill type of cap on I-95 in Philadelphia to be true tunnel.)

So what would be the rationale for prohibiting lane changes? As I compare tunnels in the two states, PA tunnels are typically longer, but if anything, that would strike me as a reason to allow lane changes, not prohibit them. Is this just another manifestation of PennDOTs more nanny-like tendencies (like posting low speed limits, no passing zones for seemingly no reason, etc.)?

Around the region, MD's tunnels forbid lane changes, but DC's I-395 tunnel allows them. I recall that the Holland and Lincoln tunnels forbid, but the Ted Williams allows. Elsewhere, CO allows (in my experience) but NV forbids. I don't really see a pattern here...


colinstu

Road capacity drops when people change lanes (so I hear).

Maybe engineers want to get the most capacity out of these two lane tunnels as they can. There's really no benefit to changing lanes... you take up two lanes of space when passing, and when you do change lanes, your lane will probably slow back down again making one want to change lanes AGAIN... when one should've just stayed in the same lane the whole time and notice it taking the same amount of time regardless.

Changing lanes can also be hazardous. Cars can get hit and that's a huge problem. Versus if all the cars are made to be in the same lane, the drivers only need to slow down for the drivers in front of them.

1995hoo

I've always assumed it's to eliminate one possible cause of accidents (people who change lanes without looking, especially when you have other people who do not turn on their headlights in the tunnel). Of course, sometimes it doesn't matter. We had to change lanes in Pennsylvania's Allegheny Mountain tunnel when our lane was blocked by someone changing a flat tire. Of all the awful places to have that happen to you!

The major tunnels in Tidewater Virginia (Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel and Monitor-Merrimac Bridge-Tunnel) also prohibit lane changes in the tunnels, if memory serves (I seldom visit that area). The Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel's tubes are single-lane in each direction and of course passing isn't allowed in that circumstance. Does anyone know of any situation where a tunnel has one lane each way but DOES allow passing over the center line?
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

PHLBOS

Quote from: briantroutman on August 26, 2013, 04:03:31 AMI don't consider the cut-and-fill type of cap on I-95 in Philadelphia to be true tunnel.
It isn't.  There also isn't any lane-changing prohibitions on it.

Quote from: briantroutman on August 26, 2013, 04:03:31 AMI recall that the Holland and Lincoln tunnels forbid, but the Ted Williams allows.
Incorrect, the Ted Williams Tunnel indeed prohibits lane changing; however, the other Big Dig tunnels (the O'Neill & Liberty Tunnels) do not.  The reasoning for such is due to (and one can probably apply such principle elsewhere) is that the tunnels that prohibit lane changing are also tunnels that have no paved shoulders.

It's also worth noting that the majority of tunnels that cross under a body of water have no shoulders (& hence prohibit lane changes) due to construction costs; a wider tunnel w/shoulders would be more costly to build.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

froggie

QuoteThe major tunnels in Tidewater Virginia (Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel and Monitor-Merrimac Bridge-Tunnel) also prohibit lane changes in the tunnels, if memory serves (I seldom visit that area).

As does the Downtown Tunnel and (upon widening) the Midtown Tunnel.

jeffandnicole

Of NJ's two tunnels (cut and cover tunnels), the Trenton Tunnel permits passing - also has full right shoulder and 3' left shoulder.  The speed limit is 45 mph - which is actually higher than the 40 mph limit north of the tunnel.  The AC Expressway connector tunnel does not permit passing. No shoulders (except at the curved ends, for sight distance reasons).  35 mph limit, which I believe is the limit for the entire connector roadway.

roadman65

The George Wallace Tunnel on I-10 in Mobile, AL does allow passing by way of lane changes!
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

1995hoo

Quote from: froggie on August 26, 2013, 08:56:55 AM
QuoteThe major tunnels in Tidewater Virginia (Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel and Monitor-Merrimac Bridge-Tunnel) also prohibit lane changes in the tunnels, if memory serves (I seldom visit that area).

As does the Downtown Tunnel and (upon widening) the Midtown Tunnel.

Thanks. I couldn't remember. Last time I went through the Downtown Tunnel was sometime in the spring of 1998 driving up from Durham for a job interview. I remember the very intimidating interview (something like nine federal judges and magistrate judges all interviewing me at once) better than I remember the drive.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

hbelkins

The two tunnels on I-77 between Bluefield and Wytheville prohibit lane changes. So does the Cumberland Gap Tunnel on US 25E.

Invariably I make the wrong call on what lane to be in, and always end up in the lane that's moving the slowest.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: hbelkins on August 26, 2013, 11:32:26 AM
The two tunnels on I-77 between Bluefield and Wytheville prohibit lane changes. So does the Cumberland Gap Tunnel on US 25E.

Invariably I make the wrong call on what lane to be in, and always end up in the lane that's moving the slowest.

That's when you should pass the slower vehicle!  Oh, don't tell me a stripe of paint prohibits someone from doing that. 

Funny our reactions to various laws:

   Driving 10 mph over the limit?  Doesn't phase most of us. 

   Changing lanes in a tunnel with a solid line down the middle?  Who would ever dare do such a thing? (Besides me, that is)

deathtopumpkins

I got pulled over a few years back by an undercover state trooper for changing lanes in the HRBT. Someone in front of me slammed on their brakes, as many people tend to do entering those tunnels, and rather than slam on mine, I cut over into the empty other lane. This was on the descent into the tunnel, before the tunnel proper.

While I didn't get a ticket, the prohibition is most certainly legal. While the line is only a single solid white line, there are black-on-white "STAY IN LANE" signs, and the VMS's approaching the tunnel by default read "DO NOT CHANGE LANES IN TUNNEL"
Disclaimer: All posts represent my personal opinions and not those of my employer.

Clinched Highways | Counties Visited

roadman65

What really interests me is that on The Pennsylvania Turnpike, not only is lane changing forbidden, but all trucks must use the right lane.  If you get stuck behind a truck in the Kitatinny and Blue Mountain Combo you have to wait a while as both tunnels are almost two miles in length together to get out from behind the slowpoke!

However, its the why that gets me, as on three lane roadways its obvious why many states (NJ, NY, CT always had this) are now banning trucks from left lanes on three or more lane highways because the slow acceleration of the larger vehicles would block all lanes from a smooth cruise.  Having one lane truck free at least opens somewhat of a door to pass through.  In the tunnel, however, you have two lanes that are totally equal so it does not matter from one to the other.  If you encounter a slow moving truck, you cannot access the truck free lane as you can on outside tunnel roads that allow general passing.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

briantroutman

Quote from: PHLBOS on August 26, 2013, 08:53:21 AM
Quote from: briantroutman on August 26, 2013, 04:03:31 AMI recall that the Holland and Lincoln tunnels forbid, but the Ted Williams allows.
Incorrect, the Ted Williams Tunnel indeed prohibits lane changing; however, the other Big Dig tunnels (the O'Neill & Liberty Tunnels) do not.  The reasoning for such is due to (and one can probably apply such principle elsewhere) is that the tunnels that prohibit lane changing are also tunnels that have no paved shoulders.

It appears that parts of the Ted Williams do (http://bit.ly/12EDXBa), and others don't.

I'd accept that the no passing restriction was strictly because of lacking shoulders and the increased peril of an accident in such close corridors, but most of the California tunnels that permit lane changes also have no shoulder. And all of those dangers would also apply to narrow bridges–I'm thinking of the old PA Turnpike bridges over the Susquehanna and Lehigh Rivers–and those both allowed lane changes.

While I'll agree that changing lanes willy-nilly would increase the risk of a collision unnecessarily, I've seen numerous occasions where the "STAY IN LANE" business leads to a more dangerous situation. Especially in PA, where many tunnels are on long grades. Since you have to pick a lane 500 ft before even entering the tunnel, people end up moving over to the left lane for fear that a truck might be in the right lane. So then you have grandma in the left lane going 52 needlessly and people on the right whizzing by at 75. And if you're trying to "do the right thing", you dutifully creep along behind grandma at a safe distance. But if you're not so obedient, you might tailgate grandma, you might try to unsafely pass on the right, cut between vehicles... Yes, all of this could still happen if lane changes were permitted, but I think a lot of potential conflict is created when there's an incompatibility between some people obeying the law and others disregarding it because they think it's unjustified.

Henry

Also, accidents are more likely to happen in tunnels where lane changing occurs, thus the prohibitions on the signs and in the solid lines all the way through.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

PHLBOS

Quote from: briantroutman on August 26, 2013, 02:10:52 PMIt appears that parts of the Ted Williams do (http://bit.ly/12EDXBa), and others don't.
That section you posted is approaching a ramp merge and is three lanes wide for a short period.  Beyond that point, the two remaining tunnels lanes are indeed separated by twin, solid white lines.

http://goo.gl/maps/bMEQe

Another tunnel observation, it would appear that the STAY IN LANE rule seems to only apply towards 2-lane tunnels with no shoulders.  The eastbound Storrow Drive tunnel in Boston is 3-lanes wide w/no shoulders but allows lane-changing & passing.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

hbelkins

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 26, 2013, 12:15:13 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 26, 2013, 11:32:26 AM
The two tunnels on I-77 between Bluefield and Wytheville prohibit lane changes. So does the Cumberland Gap Tunnel on US 25E.

Invariably I make the wrong call on what lane to be in, and always end up in the lane that's moving the slowest.

That's when you should pass the slower vehicle!  Oh, don't tell me a stripe of paint prohibits someone from doing that. 

Funny our reactions to various laws:

   Driving 10 mph over the limit?  Doesn't phase most of us. 

   Changing lanes in a tunnel with a solid line down the middle?  Who would ever dare do such a thing? (Besides me, that is)

Lots of tunnels have video monitoring systems. It would be easy to spot a vehicle making a lane change and then tell a nearby cop to go write a ticket.

The I-895 Baltimore tunnel has "STAY IN LANE" signed as black tiles in a sea of white tiles on the walls of the tunnel.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

1995hoo

I wonder to what extent part of it might have to do with visibility issues due to the fact that many (certainly not all, but many) tunnels either slope or curve (or both). The tunnels in Baltimore would be fine examples of that; the Harbor Tunnel feels like it has a considerably steeper slope, while the Fort McHenry Tunnel has a long curve. In either case, might part of the thinking be that it's undesirable to have someone changing lanes to accelerate past a slowpoke when he might not be able to see stopped traffic up ahead due to the ceiling blocking out the view "up the hill" (for lack of a better way to phrase it)?
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

roadman65

The Garden State Parkway in Irvington, NJ has  a tunnel underneath a parking lot that is very dark causing a limited sight distance while getting adjusted to the dark.  Yet lane changing is allowed.  It might have to do with the fact that it is not considered a tunnel but an elongated overpass as its constructed more like one with normal bridge piers and no tile walls as traditional tunnels, but the nonetheless it gets dark due to your pupils adjusting, hence the extra lighting in many other tunnels at the portals.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

jeffandnicole

Quote from: hbelkins on August 26, 2013, 03:22:34 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 26, 2013, 12:15:13 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 26, 2013, 11:32:26 AM
The two tunnels on I-77 between Bluefield and Wytheville prohibit lane changes. So does the Cumberland Gap Tunnel on US 25E.

Invariably I make the wrong call on what lane to be in, and always end up in the lane that's moving the slowest.

That's when you should pass the slower vehicle!  Oh, don't tell me a stripe of paint prohibits someone from doing that. 

Funny our reactions to various laws:

   Driving 10 mph over the limit?  Doesn't phase most of us. 

   Changing lanes in a tunnel with a solid line down the middle?  Who would ever dare do such a thing? (Besides me, that is)

Lots of tunnels have video monitoring systems. It would be easy to spot a vehicle making a lane change and then tell a nearby cop to go write a ticket.

The I-895 Baltimore tunnel has "STAY IN LANE" signed as black tiles in a sea of white tiles on the walls of the tunnel.

Not really.  Now you get into the 'who saw what' issue.  Cop didn't see it.  I guess they could pull the video if it's recorded...but video in itself may not be a permitted use by the prosecution for a ticket. The person viewing the video may be the one going to court to testify if the defendent (the vehicle driver) took it to court.  But...did the video show the driver who was driving?

Video can be used for going thru red lights and for speeding, in specific situations.  Using video to capture someone passing illegally isn't permitted.

As you see, most likely someone won't be pulled over due to the video system. 

1995hoo

I don't necessarily know if your statements are accurate in all states. As a general matter, any time you start saying something "isn't permitted" you run into the potential problem of the law differing from place to place. As a general matter, you're correct that the use of the video, or the use of a communication from a video operator to a cop, is problematic because it's hearsay. Hearsay is defined, for evidentiary purposes, as an out-of-court statement offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted. In this case, that means the cop who issued the ticket says that he knows you changed lanes illegally because the video operator told him so. He doesn't know it himself.

But the hearsay rule contains a ton of exceptions and several of those might apply to this sort of thing, especially if the prosecution sought to introduce the videotape itself. The exceptions vary from state to state, of course, but as a general matter there are a number of them that would likely be relevant.

That's all assuming a judge or hearing officer would even listen to the objection. Judges in courts not of record (which in many states includes traffic courts) often can't be bothered with the rules of evidence because they know there's no transcript and the whole matter would be reviewed de novo on appeal; they also know that only a very small fraction of drivers will bother with the time and expense of an appeal. (I remember being in a general district court in Alabama when a colleague raised a hearsay objection and the judge said–I kid you not–"Ahhh, shit, we just let that stuff in in the district court. It's easier for everybody that way.")

A potential bigger issue would be, as you correctly note, whether the video showed who was driving. However, it may not be terribly difficult to get around that problem if the entire tunnel is subject to video surveillance. It wouldn't be hard to establish that the car never stopped moving to allow for a driver change. I suppose you could argue that people changed seats while the vehicle was moving (more plausible in the case of bigger vehicles like RVs or trucks, obviously), but it's unclear whether that argument would pass what we often call "the laugh test" if you tried to argue it as to a regular car.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

KEK Inc.

I-90 in Seattle/Mercer Island and Boston allows you to change lanes.  I-5 express lanes do as well.

I believe the US-26 Vista Ridge tunnel allows lane-changes outbound, but no lane changes inbound (since there's a split right after the tunnel and guide signs allocate traffic well before the tunnel).

On the freeway, rear-ending and lane-changing are viable causes for accidents.  Accidents in tunnels are more dangerous, especially involving hazardous cargo (which most tunnels ban anyways).
Take the road less traveled.

Mr_Northside

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 26, 2013, 12:15:13 PM
   Driving 10 mph over the limit?  Doesn't phase most of us. 

   Changing lanes in a tunnel with a solid line down the middle?  Who would ever dare do such a thing? (Besides me, that is)

I've seen it done occasionally... not very common though in my experience (and I have more experience in these tunnels than I could ever have wanted). 
The only time I've ever changed lanes was to get out of the way of an ambulance.

I'm curious as to how enforcement would be prioritized over other traffic violations (speeding, etc...).  I doubt they'd use cameras (at least here in Pittsburgh). 
I don't have opinions anymore. All I know is that no one is better than anyone else, and everyone is the best at everything

cpzilliacus

Quote from: briantroutman on August 26, 2013, 04:03:31 AM
Around the region, MD's tunnels forbid lane changes, but DC's I-395 tunnel allows them. I recall that the Holland and Lincoln tunnels forbid, but the Ted Williams allows. Elsewhere, CO allows (in my experience) but NV forbids. I don't really see a pattern here...

The (short) cut-and-cover Winters Run Tunnel on Md. 200 (ICC) allows passing.  Probably because it has shoulders.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

thenetwork

Lane-changing in the tunnels along I-70 in Colorado is OK.

Alps

Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 26, 2013, 06:23:41 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 26, 2013, 12:15:13 PM
   Driving 10 mph over the limit?  Doesn't phase most of us. 

   Changing lanes in a tunnel with a solid line down the middle?  Who would ever dare do such a thing? (Besides me, that is)

I've seen it done occasionally... not very common though in my experience (and I have more experience in these tunnels than I could ever have wanted). 
The only time I've ever changed lanes was to get out of the way of an ambulance.

I'm curious as to how enforcement would be prioritized over other traffic violations (speeding, etc...).  I doubt they'd use cameras (at least here in Pittsburgh). 
The Port Authority does have tunnel cameras. That said, I've changed lanes on rare occasions (if one lane is stopped and the other is free-flowing - presumably an accident or breakdown ahead), and I've taken flash photos without incident. The cameras are not used for enforcement - at least, by and large - they are used to detect traffic incidents or rogue pedestrians.



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