The California State Road Gaps

[emory]

It's one of my biggest pet peeves about CalTrans. The fact that they allow what are basically two separate roads with the same route numbers to exist for such a long period of time. I first realized it when I thought I could take CA 39 north from Huntington Beach to get to Asuza, only to find an END California 39 shield at Harbor Blvd, because nothing connects it to the other CA 39 further north. Has there been any updates on completing some of these?

[agentsteel53]

I once tried taking 84 from the Dumbarton to Sacramento.

good luck with that.

[CentralCAroadgeek]

Then there's also the two CA-65 segments: one in Sacto and the other in the southeastern San Joaquin Valley...

[agentsteel53]

of these, 39 seems the most egregious since how hard would it be to just sign 39 over County N-8?

[JustDrive]

I also tried taking 168 across the Sierra Nevada...good luck

[SSOWorld]

2

From 138 goes along San Gabriels (Angeles Crest Hwy) and proceeds to 210, follows it to Glendale Freeway, then to Echo Park, then follows 101 to Santa Monica and then follows SMB to West Hollywood where it "ends", it "begins" again at the WH/Beverly Hills limits and continues to the west BH/LA limits at Century City where it "ends" AGAIN until you reach Sepulveda Blvd where it "begins" yet again to Santa Monica where it ends again - prematurely.  It originally was continuous all the way to Ocean Ave along the 1.

[NE2]

2

From 138 goes along San Gabriels (Angeles Crest Hwy) and proceeds to 210, follows it to Glendale Freeway, then to Echo Park, then follows 101 to Santa Monica and then follows SMB to West Hollywood where it "ends", it "begins" again at the WH/Beverly Hills limits and continues to the west BH/LA limits at Century City where it "ends" AGAIN until you reach Sepulveda Blvd where it "begins" yet again to Santa Monica where it ends again - prematurely.  It originally was continuous all the way to Ocean Ave along the 1.

These are gaps in maintenance, not in signage:

The relinquished former portions of Route 2 within the Cities of West Hollywood, Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, and Los Angeles are not state highways and are not eligible for adoption under Section 81. Those cities shall maintain signs within their respective jurisdictions directing motorists to the continuation of Route 2.

[emory]

of these, 39 seems the most egregious since how hard would it be to just sign 39 over County N-8?

Actually, CalTrans is legally permitted to adopt Harbor Blvd to Asuza Ave for CA 39, but they have not done so yet.

2

From 138 goes along San Gabriels (Angeles Crest Hwy) and proceeds to 210, follows it to Glendale Freeway, then to Echo Park, then follows 101 to Santa Monica and then follows SMB to West Hollywood where it "ends", it "begins" again at the WH/Beverly Hills limits and continues to the west BH/LA limits at Century City where it "ends" AGAIN until you reach Sepulveda Blvd where it "begins" yet again to Santa Monica where it ends again - prematurely.  It originally was continuous all the way to Ocean Ave along the 1.

These are gaps in maintenance, not in signage:

The relinquished former portions of Route 2 within the Cities of West Hollywood, Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, and Los Angeles are not state highways and are not eligible for adoption under Section 81. Those cities shall maintain signs within their respective jurisdictions directing motorists to the continuation of Route 2.

CA 39 is like this too. Portions have been relinquished in West Covina and Asuza, but the state keeps it up through the San Gabriel Mountains.

[emory]

Another example for the Los Angeles area. CA 90. Around Brea, it's a road that takes you from CA 39 to CA 91, but if you live near the airport it's the Marina Freeway.

[jfs1988]

CA-190 & CA-178 both have unconstructed segments. These highways are also in a way parralel to each other, both are east-west, & they connect the San Joaquin Valley (Central Valley), southern Sierra Nevada, & Mojave Desert regions of California. Their eastern terminus are also located near the state line with Nevada. The gap for CA-190 is at the Sierra Nevada & the gap for CA-178 is near Death Valley National Park.

[TheStranger]

Route 16 between Woodland and Sacramento's College Greens neighborhood.  Previously, it was a shorter gap from downtown Sacramento to College Greens.

[SSOWorld]

2

From 138 goes along San Gabriels (Angeles Crest Hwy) and proceeds to 210, follows it to Glendale Freeway, then to Echo Park, then follows 101 to Santa Monica and then follows SMB to West Hollywood where it "ends", it "begins" again at the WH/Beverly Hills limits and continues to the west BH/LA limits at Century City where it "ends" AGAIN until you reach Sepulveda Blvd where it "begins" yet again to Santa Monica where it ends again - prematurely.  It originally was continuous all the way to Ocean Ave along the 1.

These are gaps in maintenance, not in signage:

The relinquished former portions of Route 2 within the Cities of West Hollywood, Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, and Los Angeles are not state highways and are not eligible for adoption under Section 81. Those cities shall maintain signs within their respective jurisdictions directing motorists to the continuation of Route 2.

West Hollywood, LA and Santa Monica aren't doing a good job of it.  In fact, LA is more focused on putting up Armadillos.

so where the **** is the end of route 2? at the 5?

[Brandon]

It's one of my biggest pet peeves about CalTrans. The fact that they allow what are basically two separate roads with the same route numbers to exist for such a long period of time. I first realized it when I thought I could take CA 39 north from Huntington Beach to get to Asuza, only to find an END California 39 shield at Harbor Blvd, because nothing connects it to the other CA 39 further north. Has there been any updates on completing some of these?

You'd love Indiana then.  There are multiple segments of multiple state routes with multiple end signs.

[agentsteel53]

of these, 39 seems the most egregious since how hard would it be to just sign 39 over County N-8?

Actually, CalTrans is legally permitted to adopt Harbor Blvd to Asuza Ave for CA 39, but they have not done so yet.

I don't care who adopts what.  until that adoption happens, CA-39 should be signed along the most obvious routing.  remember, route shields are intended to be an aid to navigation primarily, as opposed to an advertisement for the maintaining authority.  there is no rational purpose for having an effective through route between widely traveled points to be signed 39-N8-39.  none.

if you want to suck the relevant dicks, have LA county put a tab under each CA-39 shield saying "we maintain this shit, bro.  LA County 4 LYFE!!"

[agentsteel53]

CA-190 & CA-178 both have unconstructed segments. These highways are also in a way parralel to each other, both are east-west, & they connect the San Joaquin Valley (Central Valley), southern Sierra Nevada, & Mojave Desert regions of California. Their eastern terminus are also located near the state line with Nevada. The gap for CA-190 is at the Sierra Nevada & the gap for CA-178 is near Death Valley National Park.

those should both be signed as well.  it's kinda awfully eerie driving through Death Valley at 2am, not knowing if you're precisely on the right road or not, because this is the pre-GPS days, and there is a gap in 178 reassurance markers for seventy-two miles.

190 can just as easily be signed over Sherman Pass and Kennedy Meadows Road.

168 I can understand having a break in signage, since there just isn't a road of any applicable quality over that corridor.

[emory]

of these, 39 seems the most egregious since how hard would it be to just sign 39 over County N-8?

Actually, CalTrans is legally permitted to adopt Harbor Blvd to Asuza Ave for CA 39, but they have not done so yet.

I don't care who adopts what.  until that adoption happens, CA-39 should be signed along the most obvious routing.  remember, route shields are intended to be an aid to navigation primarily, as opposed to an advertisement for the maintaining authority.  there is no rational purpose for having an effective through route between widely traveled points to be signed 39-N8-39.  none.

if you want to suck the relevant dicks, have LA county put a tab under each CA-39 shield saying "we maintain this shit, bro.  LA County 4 LYFE!!"

Or until adoption happens, name the county route after the state road. Back in Florida, FL 15 has a gap in Orange County, so it's signed as Orange County Route 15. Of course Florida has the benefit of not having to deal with this stupid alphanumeric coded system that California has implemented statewide.

[NE2]

Or until adoption happens, name the county route after the state road. Back in Florida, FL 15 has a gap in Orange County, so it's signed as Orange County Route 15.

But it has another gap near downtown Orlando (between SR 526 and SR 50), and signage is all for SR 15. (Also, part of SR 15 just north of CR 15 was recently given to the city, but is still signed as a state road for continuity.)

[emory]

Or until adoption happens, name the county route after the state road. Back in Florida, FL 15 has a gap in Orange County, so it's signed as Orange County Route 15.

But it has another gap near downtown Orlando (between SR 526 and SR 50), and signage is all for SR 15. (Also, part of SR 15 just north of CR 15 was recently given to the city, but is still signed as a state road for continuity.)

True. Another example I could use is FL 865 in Ft. Myers. Does the state allow them to erect state route signs when pieces of a state highway are relinquished to the city? They seem to frown on US route signs being erected.

[NE2]

True. Another example I could use is FL 865 in Ft. Myers.

If you mean 867, isn't that signed TO 867 north of 884?

Does the state allow them to erect state route signs when pieces of a state highway are relinquished to the city? They seem to frown on US route signs being erected.

The state doesn't need to 'allow' the city to erect signs; it's up to the city whether they want to.

One good example of a gap is 842 in Fort Lauderdale. There's no single obvious routing to fill the gap.

[Rover_0]

CA-190 & CA-178 both have unconstructed segments. These highways are also in a way parralel to each other, both are east-west, & they connect the San Joaquin Valley (Central Valley), southern Sierra Nevada, & Mojave Desert regions of California. Their eastern terminus are also located near the state line with Nevada. The gap for CA-190 is at the Sierra Nevada & the gap for CA-178 is near Death Valley National Park.

those should both be signed as well.  it's kinda awfully eerie driving through Death Valley at 2am, not knowing if you're precisely on the right road or not, because this is the pre-GPS days, and there is a gap in 178 reassurance markers for seventy-two miles.

190 can just as easily be signed over Sherman Pass and Kennedy Meadows Road.

168 I can understand having a break in signage, since there just isn't a road of any applicable quality over that corridor.

I didn't know there was a road connecting the two CA-190 segments.

[KEK Inc.]

CA-65 was probably supposed to be a Foothill bypass to CA-99.  Exit numbers in Roseville start in the 300s.

CA-84 might have at one time been proposed to go up Vasco Rd through Brentwood up to Rio Vista, since there's a stretch between Rio Vista and Sacramento.

[TheStranger]

CA-65 was probably supposed to be a Foothill bypass to CA-99.  Exit numbers in Roseville start in the 300s.

Still proposed long-term.

[2Co5_14]

CA-146 has a gap through Pinnacles National Park.  There are hiking trails connecting either end.

[mrsman]

I agree the road gaps are frustrating.  There is definitely a need for the signage of touring routes in California.

Legally speaking, when the state relinquishes control, they also relinquish their authority over the road.  I don't believe that CA has a requirement to sign state route shields on roads they don't control.  Yet it would be a good idea if the city or county put up signage.  I would say that there should be a different shaped shield, to denote the different control, but keep the same number.  They can even use the county pentagon shield.

[We already see a similar concept in California.  CA-110 is a non-interstate continuation of I-110, the different shield will alert the driver that they are no longer on an interstate highway.  But keeping the same number aids in navigation.]

In effect, the new shield will denote touring routes - highways under local control but signed for the purposes of navigation.

With respect to specific examples:

CA 19 (Lakewood/Rosemead) would be perfect for a touring route.
CA 39 (Azusa/Beach Blvd) should be a touring route from I-210 to PCH.  North of I-210, it should be a state highway.
CA 213 (Western Ave) - state highway number unnecessary
CA 42 (Manchester/Firestone) - state highway number unnecessary

CA 47 state highway from 110 to 710
CA 103 from 47 to Sepulveda, state highway.  North of Sepulveda to Alameda/91, touring route.
CA 110 Gaffey Street San Pedro should be a touring route.

CA 90 touring route from 91 to 57.  Marina Freeway should be renumbered.
CA 170 should be removed from Highland Ave in Hollywood.

La Cienega between I-10 and I-405 should have a route number

[agentsteel53]

Of course Florida has the benefit of not having to deal with this stupid alphanumeric coded system that California has implemented statewide.

it seems to be optional.  Lassen and Humboldt are two counties which do not use it, for example.  furthermore, San Bernardino just slapped a "66" tag onto the old US highway, never mind that all its other county routes start with letter prefixes.

LA County 39 would be perfect.