Small pickups?

[mcdonaat]

My car is slowly dying, so I want to save up for a compact pickup. My grandpa drives a 2WD Datsun ('83) that gets 31 hwy/27 city. I would like either a 94-04 Ranger (single cab) or an older Datsun, fuel economy being the key. I'm not looking to tow anything larger than a 14' aluminum boat. Any advice on where to get one with relatively low miles? Thanks!

[kphoger]

This is what I thought of first when I read the title:

[corco]

If you're looking for old but nice, eBay is probably the way to go. If you're just looking for a ten year old Ranger, your local classifieds/cars.com should have plenty of them. I'd tend to want to buy a used truck from a dealer instead of a private party, since the folks that swap cars out at dealers generally aren't the people that also use trucks as trucks, so you'll likely find a better example that way, though that may be less applicable with compact trucks.

I'd probably look for one without a trailer hitch and then get a trailer hitch for it- if it has a hitch, it's more likely to have towed a lot in the past and be more worn out because of it.

[PHLBOS]

My grandpa drives a 2WD Datsun ('83) that gets 31 hwy/27 city. I would like either a 94-04 Ranger (single cab) or an older Datsun, fuel economy being the key. I'm not looking to tow anything larger than a 14' aluminum boat. Any advice on where to get one with relatively low miles? Thanks!

FYI, depending on your price-range; Ford Rangers were still made up until a couple of years ago.  A Ford dealer might still have a left-over model in stock though unlikely at this point.

In terms of Datsuns, are you looking for something older than '83?  After that, all Datsuns became Nissans and their hardbody trucks first rolled out in 1986-87.

[Alps]

My grandpa drives a 2WD Datsun ('83) that gets 31 hwy/27 city. I would like either a 94-04 Ranger (single cab) or an older Datsun, fuel economy being the key. I'm not looking to tow anything larger than a 14' aluminum boat. Any advice on where to get one with relatively low miles? Thanks!

FYI, depending on your price-range; Ford Rangers were still made up until a couple of years ago.  A Ford dealer might still have a left-over model in stock though unlikely at this point.

In terms of Datsuns, are you looking for something older than '83?  After that, all Datsuns became Nissans and their hardbody trucks first rolled out in 1986-87.

Which implies softbody trucks? That name always puzzled me - some sort of marketing gimmick that flew over my young head.

[hbelkins]

Where has the market for small pickups gone?

I don't want a full-sized truck. Too big and they burn too much gas. I always liked the Chevy S-10s and Ford Rangers. I've been very pleased with my 2000 Toyota Tacoma extended cab 4WD, but it is 13 years old and has 250K miles on it so I don't know how much longer it will last.

[formulanone]

Where has the market for small pickups gone?

I don't want a full-sized truck. Too big and they burn too much gas.

It's easy enough to option out an F150 or C1500 from a poverty-spec "fleet" trim package to some big-motor, 4WD, off-road-ready truck from $22K to $50K just by questioning the buyer's insecurities. I'd heard the profit margins were therefore greater than a Ranger/S10; once you'd put enough options into it, it became easy to point to the bigger truck as an alternative.

Sales bore this out, and the Ranger, a former best-seller in the segment, fell away to the Colorado and the Tacoma.

But I agree, I'd have little to no use for a full-size truck; with the passenger-car market offering some smaller sizes (the so-called A or B-segment), you'd think some sort of small truck market would also make itself available, but I suppose it would only sell in congested urban areas.

[agentsteel53]

what would you do with a truck in an urban environment? 

[getemngo]

Where has the market for small pickups gone?

I don't want a full-sized truck. Too big and they burn too much gas. I always liked the Chevy S-10s and Ford Rangers. I've been very pleased with my 2000 Toyota Tacoma extended cab 4WD, but it is 13 years old and has 250K miles on it so I don't know how much longer it will last.

Discontinuing the Ranger is one of Ford's few recent moves that made me sad, especially when they justified it with "sales are declining." Sales were declining because you were still using a platform from the 80s and a body from 1993! Apparently the Ranger they sell now in international markets (not here, thanks to the "chicken tax" on light trucks) is "too close in size to the F-150", and the F-150 can get gas mileage that's pretty close anyway. So apparently Ford thinks you only wanted a compact pickup for the fuel economy, and with that a moot point, you'll be quiet. 

As for other brands... model bloat happens to everyone. It's like how the Corolla is as big as a Camry from 20 years ago, so Toyota introduced the Yaris to fill the Corolla's old slot. Small pickups have gotten bigger, too, but (unfortunately) nobody's reintroducing compact trucks yet.

In the smaller-than-full-sized truck world, at least the Colorado/Canyon are coming back. That's about the best news you'll get for now.

[agentsteel53]

"chicken tax"

?

model bloat happens to everyone. It's like how the Corolla is as big as a Camry from 20 years ago, so Toyota introduced the Yaris to fill the Corolla's old slot.

same with Honda... the current Honda Fit is about the size of an early 80s Accord!

has this always been a trend, or is it just the last 15 years that saw the "I drive a monster SUV.  fuck you." movement?

[getemngo]

"chicken tax"

?

The chicken tax is a 25% tariff on potato starch, dextrin, brandy, and light trucks imposed in 1963 by the United States under President Lyndon B. Johnson in response to tariffs placed by France and West Germany on importation of U.S. chicken.

That's why virtually every pickup truck you see in the US, including the Tacoma, Titan, Ridgeline, etc., is manufactured in North America. Too expensive to import.

[agentsteel53]

potato starch, dextrin, brandy, and light trucks

talk about a bizarre result of political favors! 

"quick, what should we raise our import duties on?"
"dunno Mr. President - but the domestic light trucks lobby guy is outside, and the domestic potato starch lobby guy is coming at 3pm..."

[formulanone]

Wow, didn't know about the "chicken tax". I've heard of auto/truck import taxes, but that's borderline insanity typical Big Three: If you can't beat them, lobby against them. I always was under the impression that the import brands manufactured them here because the US was far and away the largest truck-buying market, with Canada and Mexico also being big players.

...the current Honda Fit is about the size of an early 80s Accord!

has this always been a trend, or is it just the last 15 years that saw the "I drive a monster SUV.  fuck you." movement?

To be fair, almost all cars grew in size over the years: Look at a first-or-second-generation Corvette, and compare it in size to the 1980's-today models. Or the original Ford Thunderbird; it's surprisingly small because sports cars were smaller in size than mid-size and full-size models. The Grand Touring cars were the bigger sports-cars, but even then, they were pretty lithe in comparison to the average vehicles on the road.

The first Japanese imports were also tiny; a VW Beetle would dwarf many of them. Toyota, Honda, Datsun, Mazda carved out a niche in the Late-1960s/early-1970s, but it ironically after the first oil crisis, they grew somewhat in size to meet American public demand. So the Civic grew, the Accord grew; and about every two generations, the diminutive model would eventually match the dimensions of the larger one. They'd been making cars in the sub-compact range (now the industry calls it "B-segment") like the Fit, Yaris, Versa, et al, for years in other markets, since America had kind of dismissed the sub-compact market since the mid-1990s. Heck, the silly-ass Smart was introduced in Europe ten years before it arrived here.

[agentsteel53]

the silly-ass Smart

given that that's what most people think of when they think of a small car... yeah I can see why most people are averse to small cars.

the Fiat 500 is cute, and is about the same size as its 1960s ancestor, no?

[corco]

hahaha no

[agentsteel53]

I was clearly mistaken.

still cute, though.  not ugly like that Smart thing, which also has terrible MPG.

[formulanone]

the silly-ass Smart

given that that's what most people think of when they think of a small car... yeah I can see why most people are averse to small cars.

Heck, I drive a little Scion, which is roughly 13 feet long.

I've rented a modern 500, and it's okay if you brought roll-aboard luggage only...Essentially seating for two. I have to recline in it to be comfortable, but caning it corners while quite on the gas pedal is like flicking a go-kart. You do have to punch it to keep up with 50-mph traffic. Kind of plasticy on the inside. It's selling fairly well, considering everything against it...but it's 10x more fun than the Smart I'd driven.

[Molandfreak]

Last I heard, ford was thinking about bringing back the F-100 to replace the ranger. Is that no longer happening?

[corco]

That was a rumor like five years ago, so I'd guess no. I think the V6 F-150 is the Ranger replacement.

[Takumi]

Wow, didn't know about the "chicken tax". I've heard of auto/truck import taxes, but that's borderline insanity typical Big Three: If you can't beat them, lobby against them. I always was under the impression that the import brands manufactured them here because the US was far and away the largest truck-buying market, with Canada and Mexico also being big players.

...the current Honda Fit is about the size of an early 80s Accord!

has this always been a trend, or is it just the last 15 years that saw the "I drive a monster SUV.  fuck you." movement?

To be fair, almost all cars grew in size over the years: Look at a first-or-second-generation Corvette, and compare it in size to the 1980's-today models. Or the original Ford Thunderbird; it's surprisingly small because sports cars were smaller in size than mid-size and full-size models. The Grand Touring cars were the bigger sports-cars, but even then, they were pretty lithe in comparison to the average vehicles on the road.

The first Japanese imports were also tiny; a VW Beetle would dwarf many of them. Toyota, Honda, Datsun, Mazda carved out a niche in the Late-1960s/early-1970s, but it ironically after the first oil crisis, they grew somewhat in size to meet American public demand. So the Civic grew, the Accord grew; and about every two generations, the diminutive model would eventually match the dimensions of the larger one. They'd been making cars in the sub-compact range (now the industry calls it "B-segment") like the Fit, Yaris, Versa, et al, for years in other markets, since America had kind of dismissed the sub-compact market since the mid-1990s. Heck, the silly-ass Smart was introduced in Europe ten years before it arrived here.

Indeed, a new Civic is identical in size (and performance, in the case of the Si) as the newer and larger of my two Preludes, maybe even slightly larger than it. (It's also much uglier, but that's for another forum.) The 8th generation (2007-12) Accord sedan was classified as a full-size car, although the slightly smaller 9th gen puts it back in the mid-size category.

[DaBigE]

That was a rumor like five years ago, so I'd guess no. I think the V6 F-150 is the Ranger replacement.

According to this article (and other similar ones I have read), it looks like the Ranger will live off-shore for the foreseeable future.

[corco]

Well right, Ford has been constantly updating the international Ranger for decades while we've been stuck with the crummy old version for..wait why? Usually they've been Mazda designs- not the newest one though. Basically Ford took care of Ford/Mazda compact pickups in North America, while Mazda took care of Ford/Mazda compact pickups everywhere else.

[getemngo]

Well right, Ford has been constantly updating the international Ranger for decades while we've been stuck with the crummy old version for..wait why? Usually they've been Mazda designs- not the newest one though. Basically Ford took care of Ford/Mazda compact pickups in North America, while Mazda took care of Ford/Mazda compact pickups everywhere else.

Kind of like with the full-sized vans. The current E-series is a year older than the last Ranger (it's 22 now!), and riding on a platform from 1975, and Ford's finally relenting and bringing over the better European vans... in 2015. Or like how the States got skipped over entirely for the second generation Focus...

The real question is, why do all of an American company's best cars come from Europe and not the US? The Fiesta, Focus, C-Max, Fusion, Escape, and Transit Connect were all developed overseas. Good for Ford for making good cars again, but there's something to be said for national identity. Australia can relate too, since they're losing all their exclusive Fords in a couple years.

[corco]

The short answer is that it costs a lot to federalize cars for sale in the US market, and the Big 3 put their eggs into the SUV basket in the North American market for many years, pumping R&D into Expeditions instead of Focuses. SUVs are a lot more profitable than passenger cars when they're selling, and people were buying them for a long time.

We didn't get new Focuses because Ford didn't make much money on them, and slapping a new grille on is a lot cheaper than designing a new Focus that meets both Euro and US safety standards. In Europe, Ford depended on the profits from things like Focuses for survival, so that market got the R&D attention.

The One Ford policy is a long time coming now...it's sad, but I guess it's progress.

[DaBigE]

Well right, Ford has been constantly updating the international Ranger for decades while we've been stuck with the crummy old version for..wait why? Usually they've been Mazda designs- not the newest one though. Basically Ford took care of Ford/Mazda compact pickups in North America, while Mazda took care of Ford/Mazda compact pickups everywhere else.

Kind of like with the full-sized vans. The current E-series is a year older than the last Ranger (it's 22 now!), and riding on a platform from 1975, and Ford's finally relenting and bringing over the better European vans... in 2015. Or like how the States got skipped over entirely for the second generation Focus...

In the case of the E-series, why bother with major updates when you remain at the top while doing essentially nothing? Why spend the capital when you don't have to? The only reason the Transit is coming over is because of the success of the Sprinter. Look how long they held on to the panther chassis with the Crown Vic.

The real question is, why do all of an American company's best cars come from Europe and not the US? The Fiesta, Focus, C-Max, Fusion, Escape, and Transit Connect were all developed overseas. Good for Ford for making good cars again, but there's something to be said for national identity. Australia can relate too, since they're losing all their exclusive Fords in a couple years.

ALL   I don't think the Mustang came form across the pond... In any case, they're looking to save money like everyone else. Personally, I rather have a viable company rather than one who has gone bankrupt just to keep a shrinking population of patriotic gearheads happy.