urban national parks -signed US routes and interstates?

[Lyon Wonder]

The federal government's considering designating the Pullman historical district in Chicago an urban national park.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-pullman-neighborhood-clears-national-park-status-hurdle-20130909,0,4461045.story

According to google, I-94 passes through Pullman, IL near Chicago's south side, though I'm not sure the entire community of Pullman encompasses the historical district that's being considered as a national park?

And US-12/20 (95th street) also borders Pullman's north side too.

So if the federal government starts designating national parks in urban ares, will this affect the designation of US highways or even interstates since when a US highway enters a rural national park like Yellowstone, it's technically no longer a US highway.

[Kacie Jane]

I know that this has been discussed to death (yawn), but is your last statement -- "it's technically no longer a US highway" -- actually true?  Yellowstone I know has no signage, and I've never been, but I've heard similar things about Great Smoky Mountains.  But I know there are cases where highways are signed within national parks -- although perhaps not beyond the entrance gate?  US 101 never loses signage around the Olympics despite sneaking within the park boundary twice.  And these aren't US highways, but SR 410 and SR 123 intersect within Mt. Rainier National Park at a well-signed junction.  (SR 706, however, does end at the boundary -- but the road that would be signed as an extension of 706 is between two fee gates.)

[NE2]

Yellowstone is the only actual gap. Other national parks have signed routes.

from http://www.usends.com/30-39/036/036.html

[vtk]

I've been to the Smokies several times and I'm pretty sure US 441 isn't signed on Newfound Gap Road.

But I would expect US routes to remain signed, probably with standard signage, inside any urban national parks. 

Cuyahoga Valley National Park is relatively urban. What's the route signage situation there?

[deathtopumpkins]

US 17 and various state routes (even SRs) are thoroughly signed in VA's Colonial National Historical Park.

I'm pretty sure there are ME state routes signed in Acadia National Park.

[Pete from Boston]

Most urban national parks with which I'm familiar (Boston, Lowell, New Bedford, Paterson, etc.) are a collection of sites of mixed ownership within a given district.  I don't think signing highways is usually within their purview. 

[seicer]

All state roads in Cuyahoga Valley NP are signed by ODOT.

Mammoth Caves NP in Kentucky is mostly unsigned. There are some I-65 shields to direct people out, but KY 70 and 255 have no signs within the park.
It is signed at the eastern KY 70 and 255 junction, which is outside of the park.
The only time KY 255 is signed southward at Park City is at US 31W, not at I-65 or elsewhere - which is even more odd, since it's listed on the guide signs for I-65.
KY 70 has few signs at or near I-65, and none on the ramps that I could make out.
KY 70 is signed at the western entrance to the park.

Great Smokey Mountains has signage right outside of the park in Gatlinburg (http://goo.gl/maps/8VfET)

[Brandon]

The federal government's considering designating the Pullman historical district in Chicago an urban national park.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-pullman-neighborhood-clears-national-park-status-hurdle-20130909,0,4461045.story

According to google, I-94 passes through Pullman, IL near Chicago's south side, though I'm not sure the entire community of Pullman encompasses the historical district that's being considered as a national park?

And US-12/20 (95th street) also borders Pullman's north side too.

So if the federal government starts designating national parks in urban ares, will this affect the designation of US highways or even interstates since when a US highway enters a rural national park like Yellowstone, it's technically no longer a US highway.

No.  95th Street and the Calumet Expressway (Bishop Ford - feh) will retain their numerical designations.

[hbelkins]

All state roads in Cuyahoga Valley NP are signed by ODOT.

Mammoth Caves NP in Kentucky is mostly unsigned. There are some I-65 shields to direct people out, but KY 70 and 255 have no signs within the park.
It is signed at the eastern KY 70 and 255 junction, which is outside of the park.
The only time KY 255 is signed southward at Park City is at US 31W, not at I-65 or elsewhere - which is even more odd, since it's listed on the guide signs for I-65.
KY 70 has few signs at or near I-65, and none on the ramps that I could make out.
KY 70 is signed at the western entrance to the park.

The old-style county maps of that area distinctly show that state maintenance ends at the park boundaries. KY 70 and KY 255 officially do not exist in Mammoth Cave NP. The park boundaries have been extended along the putative KY 255 all th way to the I-65 interchange.

[Mapmikey]

US 33 and US 211 are definitely signed within Shenandoah Nat'l Park.  Per the traffic logs, these roads are under VDOT jurisdiction which is why they are likely posted.

Mapmikey

[cpzilliacus]

U.S. 1 and U.S. 50 cross the National Mall in the District of Columbia, and are clearly signed.  U.S. 1 North as 14th Street and south as 15th Street, U.S. 50 as  Constitution Avenue, N.W.

Additionally, a short section of U.S. 50 is the NPS maintained Baltimore-Washington Parkway (just east of the Anacostia River in Maryland) and it is also clearly signed.

Back in D.C., I-395/U.S. 1 cross Potomac Park, and are also signed.

[hbelkins]

This sign was posted near the Sugarlands Visitor Center in GSMNP about 15 years ago. Don't know whether it is still there or not.

It indicates that the numbered routes are NOT signed within the park.

Also notice the old-style Tennessee route marker.

[Henry]

The federal government's considering designating the Pullman historical district in Chicago an urban national park.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-pullman-neighborhood-clears-national-park-status-hurdle-20130909,0,4461045.story

According to google, I-94 passes through Pullman, IL near Chicago's south side, though I'm not sure the entire community of Pullman encompasses the historical district that's being considered as a national park?

And US-12/20 (95th street) also borders Pullman's north side too.

So if the federal government starts designating national parks in urban ares, will this affect the designation of US highways or even interstates since when a US highway enters a rural national park like Yellowstone, it's technically no longer a US highway.

Having been a national landmark since 1970, as the article says, I wouldn't be surprised if they did convert Pullman into a national park, although certainly not in the traditional sense that Yellowstone and others are.

[agentsteel53]

This sign was posted near the Sugarlands Visitor Center in GSMNP about 15 years ago. Don't know whether it is still there or not.

I was in the Gatlinburg area in January, 2010 and I found no classic TENN triangle shields.  (or, in this case, TN)

as of November, 2010, the two triangles I know of are the TN-68/US-411 and the TN-99 somewhere on US-412.  both are well-known so I'm too lazy to look up their exact locations.

[vtk]

This sign was posted near the Sugarlands Visitor Center in GSMNP about 15 years ago. Don't know whether it is still there or not.

It indicates that the numbered routes are NOT signed within the park.

Also notice the old-style Tennessee route marker.

Part of the reason Yellowstone and Great Smokey Mountains can get away with this is there are so few junctions inside the park.  For example, I think this junction and the Clingman's Dome spur are the only ones on Newfound Gap Road. 

[NE2]

U.S. 1 and U.S. 50 cross the National Mall in the District of Columbia, and are clearly signed.  U.S. 1 North as 14th Street and south as 15th Street, U.S. 50 as  Constitution Avenue, N.W.

Clearly my ass. I don't think any signs remain for US 1 on 15th. (This isn't because it's in a park, however, but because of attrition.)

[silverback1065]

U.S. 1 and U.S. 50 cross the National Mall in the District of Columbia, and are clearly signed.  U.S. 1 North as 14th Street and south as 15th Street, U.S. 50 as  Constitution Avenue, N.W.

Clearly my ass. I don't think any signs remain for US 1 on 15th. (This isn't because it's in a park, however, but because of attrition.)

US 1 and US 50 are very poorly signed in DC, I'd be surprised if anyone can follow their routes without a map!

[FightingIrish]

I know that this has been discussed to death (yawn), but is your last statement -- "it's technically no longer a US highway" -- actually true?  Yellowstone I know has no signage, and I've never been, but I've heard similar things about Great Smoky Mountains.  But I know there are cases where highways are signed within national parks -- although perhaps not beyond the entrance gate?  US 101 never loses signage around the Olympics despite sneaking within the park boundary twice.  And these aren't US highways, but SR 410 and SR 123 intersect within Mt. Rainier National Park at a well-signed junction.  (SR 706, however, does end at the boundary -- but the road that would be signed as an extension of 706 is between two fee gates.)

I've always considered the US highways leading in and out of Yellowstone to be implied. There isn't a gap. Just that the routes are not signed inside the park. But seeing as the main route within the park is essentially a loop, taking any direction through will lead the driver to the continuation of the route they came in on. This is similar to the quibbling about I-90 and the Chicago Skyway.

[hbelkins]

I've often wondered how the US routes would be routed inside the park if the routes were signed, and used to try to find ways to give US 14 and US 16 separate endings. (Talk about your useless concurrencies...)

[NE2]

I've always considered the US highways leading in and out of Yellowstone to be implied. There isn't a gap. Just that the routes are not signed inside the park. But seeing as the main route within the park is essentially a loop, taking any direction through will lead the driver to the continuation of the route they came in on. This is similar to the quibbling about I-90 and the Chicago Skyway.

Except that AASHTO officially defines two separate sections of those routes. IIRC, the only other routes where they do this are US 2, US 10, and US 422. They certainly don't do it at any other national parks.

[agentsteel53]

why does US-10 get two segments, but US-9 does not?

[NE2]

why does US-10 get two segments, but US-9 does not?

I have no idea. US 10 had only one segment in the 1927 log, so it's not for historical reasons. Perhaps it's because the US 10 ferry is seasonal.

[agentsteel53]

why does US-10 get two segments, but US-9 does not?

I have no idea. US 10 had only one segment in the 1927 log, so it's not for historical reasons. Perhaps it's because the US 10 ferry is seasonal.

when did they change it?  relative to 1979; when the US 9 ferry was formed.

I think it's just "practices of the time"

[NE2]

when did they change it?  relative to 1979; when the US 9 ferry was formed.

No idea - all I have are 1927 and 1989 logs.

[cpzilliacus]

U.S. 1 and U.S. 50 cross the National Mall in the District of Columbia, and are clearly signed.  U.S. 1 North as 14th Street and south as 15th Street, U.S. 50 as  Constitution Avenue, N.W.

Clearly my ass. I don't think any signs remain for US 1 on 15th. (This isn't because it's in a park, however, but because of attrition.)

US 1 and US 50 are very poorly signed in DC, I'd be surprised if anyone can follow their routes without a map!

Agreed.  U.S. 1 Alternate is not signed at all in D.C.  U.S. 29 is also poorly signed. 

But crossing the NPS lands in D.C., the signing is probably O.K.