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Author Topic: New Jersey  (Read 415364 times)

J Route Z

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2200 on: October 11, 2018, 03:58:59 AM »

What type of bulbs are used on state highway traffic lights? I remember they used to be a lower intensity bulb. Some of these old fashioned bulbs are still used in some areas (non-state highways), including Camden, Monmouth, Hudson, and Mercer counties. Example: https://goo.gl/maps/ookd75WKN2C2 When was the transition made? My guess would be around 1999.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 04:01:40 AM by J Route Z »
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2201 on: October 11, 2018, 04:28:09 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/wPCH1QiQ4dR2
Are not state routes supposed to have center lines painted down the middle?  This is actually US 206 but still as NJ state highway, even though maintained by Trenton.  Does not the  MUTCD frown upon any of this?
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Sheryl Crowe

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2202 on: October 11, 2018, 04:37:02 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/wPCH1QiQ4dR2
Are not state routes supposed to have center lines painted down the middle?  This is actually US 206 but still as NJ state highway, even though maintained by Trenton.  Does not the  MUTCD frown upon any of this?

The fact that it's a US Route isn't relevant. The MUTCD says that centerlines are only required on roads with an AADT of 6000 or more.
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2203 on: October 11, 2018, 04:45:36 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/wPCH1QiQ4dR2
Are not state routes supposed to have center lines painted down the middle?  This is actually US 206 but still as NJ state highway, even though maintained by Trenton.  Does not the  MUTCD frown upon any of this?

The fact that it's a US Route isn't relevant. The MUTCD says that centerlines are only required on roads with an AADT of 6000 or more.
Interesting.   So only the traffic count determines this.  The fact its any kind of route does not matter.  Just the traffic count is the guideline.
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Sheryl Crowe

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2204 on: October 11, 2018, 05:57:54 PM »

That traffic light likely has a LED replacement in it, not an incandescent "traffic" bulb.
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Alps

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2205 on: October 11, 2018, 09:05:15 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/wPCH1QiQ4dR2
Are not state routes supposed to have center lines painted down the middle?  This is actually US 206 but still as NJ state highway, even though maintained by Trenton.  Does not the  MUTCD frown upon any of this?

The fact that it's a US Route isn't relevant. The MUTCD says that centerlines are only required on roads with an AADT of 6000 or more.
Interesting.   So only the traffic count determines this.  The fact its any kind of route does not matter.  Just the traffic count is the guideline.
Yes, but that's not to say you can't have a double yellow on a road under 6K. I think it makes sense to have a centerline on any paved state highway.

roadman65

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2206 on: October 12, 2018, 11:50:41 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/8TStV1ZGbPv
I see that NJDOT is keeping the original US 206 as US 206, as the new alignment is signed BYPASS US 206.
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famartin

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2207 on: October 13, 2018, 01:56:55 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/8TStV1ZGbPv
I see that NJDOT is keeping the original US 206 as US 206, as the new alignment is signed BYPASS US 206.

For the moment.  Since its not complete yet, it would not be wise to sign it as 206.  I imagine when it is complete, 206 will revert to BUS 206 or some yet to be determined state route.
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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2208 on: October 13, 2018, 02:22:56 PM »

206 through Hillsborough proper is going to be locally maintained.
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2209 on: October 13, 2018, 10:47:22 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/U17JMGB92vC2
This is the dumbest set up I have ever seen even for NJ.  On NB NJ 109 you can make a left turn to go back south on NJ 109 but in the other direction you cannot make a left turn onto the Garden State Parkway!  Really thought of well here.  The permissive left turn could also be used on SB 109 to turn left here.

I lived in NJ for 25 years and this is the worst intersection I have ever seen built. 
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Sheryl Crowe

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2210 on: October 14, 2018, 12:15:56 AM »

https://goo.gl/maps/U17JMGB92vC2
This is the dumbest set up I have ever seen even for NJ.  On NB NJ 109 you can make a left turn to go back south on NJ 109 but in the other direction you cannot make a left turn onto the Garden State Parkway!  Really thought of well here.  The permissive left turn could also be used on SB 109 to turn left here.

I lived in NJ for 25 years and this is the worst intersection I have ever seen built.

It's not that bad... And a U-turn movement from NB to SB 109 is needed as that's the best way for traffic from 109 in Cape May and Ocean Drive to reach the houses and businesses immediately west of 109. A U-turn from the GSP southbound to GSP northbound is useless here, and if you really wanted to do that, you could use the specifically designated U-turn just down the road at Ocean Drive, which is necessary for the same reason as the other U-turn.

The loop probably is just NJDOT's obsession with jughandles showing, but it lets the signal stay two-phase (with the exception of the opposite protected left for the U-turn that for some reason isn't a doghouse) while giving that turn some extra stacking space. I don't know how well a plain permissive turn would work there.

I'd rather see it grade-separated, but this is better than nothing.

NJRoadfan

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2211 on: October 14, 2018, 01:17:01 AM »

For some odd reason, it appears that NJDOT has installed tenth mile markers on Paterson Plank Rd. between NJ-3 and US-1&9. Its a rare sight to see a Hudson County route marker, let alone mileposts! I'm guessing its part of the NJ-495 construction project for accident response as the August 2018 GSV coverage doesn't show them and Paterson Plank Rd/CR-681 is a major detour route in the area.
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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2212 on: October 14, 2018, 07:50:03 AM »

Come to think of it, will this be the only APL in NJ with the black-background route shields?

jeffandnicole

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2213 on: October 14, 2018, 08:12:28 AM »

https://goo.gl/maps/U17JMGB92vC2
This is the dumbest set up I have ever seen even for NJ.  On NB NJ 109 you can make a left turn to go back south on NJ 109 but in the other direction you cannot make a left turn onto the Garden State Parkway!  Really thought of well here.  The permissive left turn could also be used on SB 109 to turn left here.

I lived in NJ for 25 years and this is the worst intersection I have ever seen built. 

You lived in NJ 25 years ago. Have you even travelled thru this intersection?
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Alps

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2214 on: October 14, 2018, 03:22:06 PM »

For some odd reason, it appears that NJDOT has installed tenth mile markers on Paterson Plank Rd. between NJ-3 and US-1&9. Its a rare sight to see a Hudson County route marker, let alone mileposts! I'm guessing its part of the NJ-495 construction project for accident response as the August 2018 GSV coverage doesn't show them and Paterson Plank Rd/CR-681 is a major detour route in the area.
I would love to see a photo.

NJRoadfan

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2215 on: October 14, 2018, 09:50:12 PM »

It'll be tough with the amount of traffic going every which way in that area, but I'll try.
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2216 on: October 15, 2018, 05:28:47 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/U17JMGB92vC2
This is the dumbest set up I have ever seen even for NJ.  On NB NJ 109 you can make a left turn to go back south on NJ 109 but in the other direction you cannot make a left turn onto the Garden State Parkway!  Really thought of well here.  The permissive left turn could also be used on SB 109 to turn left here.

I lived in NJ for 25 years and this is the worst intersection I have ever seen built. 

You lived in NJ 25 years ago. Have you even travelled thru this intersection?
No for 25 years.  I am aware that it was troublesome over the years. I am actually away from it 28 years and been through there in person last in 96 coming from the ferry. 

Not to say that the former intersection needed upgrade, but considering they allow left turns going one way and not the other is odd even for NJ.  When I lived there I accepted the odd we had especially full serve gas, but this at grade loop is even strange from the NJ I knew (and still see on this forum and from relatives).  I can see the logic and keeping the signal in 2 movements, but still the other way adds really a third, but is traffic really that bad on NB 109 that cars turning left onto the Parkway cannot just simply yield or just add the third movement to turn left fully protected when NB NJ 109 is given the permissive?

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Sheryl Crowe

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2217 on: October 16, 2018, 01:45:54 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/U17JMGB92vC2
This is the dumbest set up I have ever seen even for NJ.  On NB NJ 109 you can make a left turn to go back south on NJ 109 but in the other direction you cannot make a left turn onto the Garden State Parkway!  Really thought of well here.  The permissive left turn could also be used on SB 109 to turn left here.

I lived in NJ for 25 years and this is the worst intersection I have ever seen built. 

I think it's a rather smart setup. Right-of-way was available for the jug, and not having to grade separate saves millions. A permissive left turn would NOT have worked for the 109 SB to GSP NB movement.
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Alps

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2218 on: October 16, 2018, 06:11:23 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/U17JMGB92vC2
This is the dumbest set up I have ever seen even for NJ.  On NB NJ 109 you can make a left turn to go back south on NJ 109 but in the other direction you cannot make a left turn onto the Garden State Parkway!  Really thought of well here.  The permissive left turn could also be used on SB 109 to turn left here.

I lived in NJ for 25 years and this is the worst intersection I have ever seen built. 

I think it's a rather smart setup. Right-of-way was available for the jug, and not having to grade separate saves millions. A permissive left turn would NOT have worked for the 109 SB to GSP NB movement.
I've lived in NJ for 35 years and I can offhand name several dozen other intersections that are not built as well. Start with every traffic circle that still exists.

roadman65

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2219 on: October 16, 2018, 09:48:52 PM »

The NJ Circles were mostly built way before the problems now they impose on motorists.  At the time they were revolutionary for handling traffic.  This double loop, I feel, is not really necessary.  Yes some of the leftover circles are now dumb designs, but this one is the most not thought of.

Any other state would not create a loop from SB 109 to the Parkway.  Florida would make a T intersection with NJ 109 from the north ending at the intersection while the Parkway to NJ 109 from the south would default into each other.  To me personally I do not think adding a third phase to this light would not be that much of an imposition considering a permissive turn phase takes place going the other direction.  Heck if a loop was built even to make a u turn on NB Route 109 instead of the direct left turn it would not be so bad.  I know that in Eatontown before NJDOT redid the NJ 35 & 36 intersection again, they allowed a direct left turn from NB to WB but from SB to EB a loop turn was required, and that was basically the same concept here, but at the time I thought it was strange too but not beyond that.

Here I just think that the loop and passing through the intersection could have been thought of more carefully
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Sheryl Crowe

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2220 on: October 16, 2018, 10:11:23 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/U17JMGB92vC2
This is the dumbest set up I have ever seen even for NJ.  On NB NJ 109 you can make a left turn to go back south on NJ 109 but in the other direction you cannot make a left turn onto the Garden State Parkway!  Really thought of well here.  The permissive left turn could also be used on SB 109 to turn left here.

I lived in NJ for 25 years and this is the worst intersection I have ever seen built. 

I think it's a rather smart setup. Right-of-way was available for the jug, and not having to grade separate saves millions. A permissive left turn would NOT have worked for the 109 SB to GSP NB movement.
I've lived in NJ for 35 years and I can offhand name several dozen other intersections that are not built as well. Start with every traffic circle that still exists.

25 years later and I still don't understand why they didn't do more reconfiguration of the Somerville Death Trap when they built the 202 flyover.
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roadman65

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2221 on: October 16, 2018, 10:44:22 PM »

From what my aunt once told me, the addition of the flyover caused more accidents.  That is why the yield signs were added to help with that, but only helped a little. 

To me that made some sense when they created the flyover, but it obviously failed.  It should be redone again, but in a previous discussion many mentioned its a tough challenge to do it.  You would have to acquire land from the nearby plazas to do it, which is probably why they did it this way.  However, with the accidents that have since happened you think NJDOT would have acted on another alternative.
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Sheryl Crowe

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2222 on: October 16, 2018, 11:28:29 PM »

From what my aunt once told me, the addition of the flyover caused more accidents.  That is why the yield signs were added to help with that, but only helped a little. 

To me that made some sense when they created the flyover, but it obviously failed.  It should be redone again, but in a previous discussion many mentioned its a tough challenge to do it.  You would have to acquire land from the nearby plazas to do it, which is probably why they did it this way.  However, with the accidents that have since happened you think NJDOT would have acted on another alternative.

The flyover has been good to direct a decent amount of traffic, especially as traffic coming to and from PA has increased on 202, but it doesn't fix the issues within the circle itself.

You're right though, any attempts to fix it would require quite a bit of property takings, as there are businesses along all sides of the circle itself, including the QuickChek they're building with gas, which will just make more issues.
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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2223 on: October 17, 2018, 04:38:29 PM »

Any other state would not create a loop from SB 109 to the Parkway.  Florida would make a T intersection with NJ 109 from the north ending at the intersection while the Parkway to NJ 109 from the south would default into each other.
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Alps

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2224 on: October 17, 2018, 06:10:56 PM »

Any other state would not create a loop from SB 109 to the Parkway.  Florida would make a T intersection with NJ 109 from the north ending at the intersection while the Parkway to NJ 109 from the south would default into each other.

Is that... an exit ramp... with a direct ramp... to an entrance ramp in the same direction? My brain bleeds.

 


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