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Author Topic: New Jersey  (Read 465061 times)

roadman65

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2550 on: September 10, 2019, 10:15:06 PM »

I did not know it was changed to a Bruce Springsteen song.  Considering Highway 9 goes through his neck of the woods, the old historic Georges Road should remain as Georges Road.

I once read an article on the original Georges Road, but Google won't pull it up anymore.  It was a an old road that went from Cranbury to New Brunswick sort of like the Old York Road which went from Philly to New York in another part of the state.  Both were transport routes, but this one was more localized than the other which took two days to travel what now takes a few hours.  That is why Centerville is along US 202 in Readington, as that was the original road's halfway point and had an inn there for stagecoach patrons traveling between the two.
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jcarte29

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2551 on: September 11, 2019, 11:58:13 AM »

I'm in Southern NJ for two weeks for work, staying in Vineland. Last night, I drove all the way up NJ 55 to its connection with....NJ 42. Does I-76 start at the state line to PA? Was it ever proposed to continue down NJ 55?

I'm just curious as a road geek from NC. Thanks!
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Interstates I've driven on (Complete and/or partial, no particular order)
------------------
40, 85, 95, 77, 277(NC), 485(NC), 440(NC), 540(NC), 795(NC), 140(NC), 73, 74, 840(NC), 26, 20, 75, 285(GA), 81, 64, 71, 275(OH), 465(IN), 65, 264(VA), 240(NC), 295(VA), 526(SC), 985(GA), 395(FL), 195(FL)

jeffandnicole

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2552 on: September 11, 2019, 12:23:12 PM »

I'm in Southern NJ for two weeks for work, staying in Vineland. Last night, I drove all the way up NJ 55 to its connection with....NJ 42. Does I-76 start at the state line to PA? Was it ever proposed to continue down NJ 55?

I'm just curious as a road geek from NC. Thanks!

I-76 starts/ends at I-295 in Bellmawr, NJ.  There's about 3 miles of I-76 within NJ's borders before PA.  If you listen to the traffic reports though, you'll never notice it, as most locals call I-76 Route 42 in this area.

The 2nd question is often-discussed on these roadgroup circles (to my annoyance! lol).  I believe it was always designed that I-76 would end at another interstate; in this case 295.  Often, we have brought up extending I-76 down Rt. 42 to the Atlantic City Expressway to Atlantic City, and Route 55 could become I-176 or similar. 

New Jersey and its toll authorities have never to my knowledge ever discussed it, and the state and its authorities have absolutely no interest in claiming an interstate number just to do it.  Motorists - both everyday car drivers and commercial vehicle drivers - appear to have no issues in finding their way around, which is often cited as a benefit to having an interstate route. Another benefit cited by some is that interstate routes can generate traffic, which generates residential housing and commercial businesses to come to the area, generating tax revenue.  The area certainly isn't lacking in this department either.

So there's never really been a need to redesignate our state highways with interstate numbers.
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jcarte29

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2553 on: September 11, 2019, 01:36:21 PM »

I'm in Southern NJ for two weeks for work, staying in Vineland. Last night, I drove all the way up NJ 55 to its connection with....NJ 42. Does I-76 start at the state line to PA? Was it ever proposed to continue down NJ 55?

I'm just curious as a road geek from NC. Thanks!

I-76 starts/ends at I-295 in Bellmawr, NJ.  There's about 3 miles of I-76 within NJ's borders before PA.  If you listen to the traffic reports though, you'll never notice it, as most locals call I-76 Route 42 in this area.

The 2nd question is often-discussed on these roadgroup circles (to my annoyance! lol).  I believe it was always designed that I-76 would end at another interstate; in this case 295.  Often, we have brought up extending I-76 down Rt. 42 to the Atlantic City Expressway to Atlantic City, and Route 55 could become I-176 or similar. 

New Jersey and its toll authorities have never to my knowledge ever discussed it, and the state and its authorities have absolutely no interest in claiming an interstate number just to do it.  Motorists - both everyday car drivers and commercial vehicle drivers - appear to have no issues in finding their way around, which is often cited as a benefit to having an interstate route. Another benefit cited by some is that interstate routes can generate traffic, which generates residential housing and commercial businesses to come to the area, generating tax revenue.  The area certainly isn't lacking in this department either.

So there's never really been a need to redesignate our state highways with interstate numbers.


Awesome. I flew in to Newark and rented a vehicle, which gave me opportunity to drive through and around NJ for the first time. NJ 55 is very very nice, and smooth, interstate quality. I can see how most locals are just fine with its utility. A blue shield doesn't and wouldn't change that.

I did read that there were intentions to build the last 20 miles of it, but either funding, or just lack of interest?
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Interstates I've driven on (Complete and/or partial, no particular order)
------------------
40, 85, 95, 77, 277(NC), 485(NC), 440(NC), 540(NC), 795(NC), 140(NC), 73, 74, 840(NC), 26, 20, 75, 285(GA), 81, 64, 71, 275(OH), 465(IN), 65, 264(VA), 240(NC), 295(VA), 526(SC), 985(GA), 395(FL), 195(FL)

odditude

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2554 on: September 11, 2019, 01:46:28 PM »

I'm in Southern NJ for two weeks for work, staying in Vineland. Last night, I drove all the way up NJ 55 to its connection with....NJ 42. Does I-76 start at the state line to PA? Was it ever proposed to continue down NJ 55?

I'm just curious as a road geek from NC. Thanks!

I-76 starts/ends at I-295 in Bellmawr, NJ.  There's about 3 miles of I-76 within NJ's borders before PA.  If you listen to the traffic reports though, you'll never notice it, as most locals call I-76 Route 42 in this area.

The 2nd question is often-discussed on these roadgroup circles (to my annoyance! lol).  I believe it was always designed that I-76 would end at another interstate; in this case 295.  Often, we have brought up extending I-76 down Rt. 42 to the Atlantic City Expressway to Atlantic City, and Route 55 could become I-176 or similar. 

New Jersey and its toll authorities have never to my knowledge ever discussed it, and the state and its authorities have absolutely no interest in claiming an interstate number just to do it.  Motorists - both everyday car drivers and commercial vehicle drivers - appear to have no issues in finding their way around, which is often cited as a benefit to having an interstate route. Another benefit cited by some is that interstate routes can generate traffic, which generates residential housing and commercial businesses to come to the area, generating tax revenue.  The area certainly isn't lacking in this department either.

So there's never really been a need to redesignate our state highways with interstate numbers.


Awesome. I flew in to Newark and rented a vehicle, which gave me opportunity to drive through and around NJ for the first time. NJ 55 is very very nice, and smooth, interstate quality. I can see how most locals are just fine with its utility. A blue shield doesn't and wouldn't change that.

I did read that there were intentions to build the last 20 miles of it, but either funding, or just lack of interest?

environmental concerns which further exacerbate the cost (besides the usual community opposition).
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jcarte29

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2555 on: September 11, 2019, 01:51:55 PM »

The other question I have is about the toll collections. Are all of the booths/gantries *Cash Only* or EZPass? Do the booths take credit cards too? I've been too nervous to get up there and ask last second with a line behind me ha. I hardly carry cash anymore and I don't have the comfort of loose change in my own vehicle, which is back in NC garaged while I'm away lol.
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Interstates I've driven on (Complete and/or partial, no particular order)
------------------
40, 85, 95, 77, 277(NC), 485(NC), 440(NC), 540(NC), 795(NC), 140(NC), 73, 74, 840(NC), 26, 20, 75, 285(GA), 81, 64, 71, 275(OH), 465(IN), 65, 264(VA), 240(NC), 295(VA), 526(SC), 985(GA), 395(FL), 195(FL)

storm2k

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2556 on: September 11, 2019, 01:55:28 PM »

I'm in Southern NJ for two weeks for work, staying in Vineland. Last night, I drove all the way up NJ 55 to its connection with....NJ 42. Does I-76 start at the state line to PA? Was it ever proposed to continue down NJ 55?

I'm just curious as a road geek from NC. Thanks!

I-76 starts/ends at I-295 in Bellmawr, NJ.  There's about 3 miles of I-76 within NJ's borders before PA.  If you listen to the traffic reports though, you'll never notice it, as most locals call I-76 Route 42 in this area.

The 2nd question is often-discussed on these roadgroup circles (to my annoyance! lol).  I believe it was always designed that I-76 would end at another interstate; in this case 295.  Often, we have brought up extending I-76 down Rt. 42 to the Atlantic City Expressway to Atlantic City, and Route 55 could become I-176 or similar. 

New Jersey and its toll authorities have never to my knowledge ever discussed it, and the state and its authorities have absolutely no interest in claiming an interstate number just to do it.  Motorists - both everyday car drivers and commercial vehicle drivers - appear to have no issues in finding their way around, which is often cited as a benefit to having an interstate route. Another benefit cited by some is that interstate routes can generate traffic, which generates residential housing and commercial businesses to come to the area, generating tax revenue.  The area certainly isn't lacking in this department either.

So there's never really been a need to redesignate our state highways with interstate numbers.


Awesome. I flew in to Newark and rented a vehicle, which gave me opportunity to drive through and around NJ for the first time. NJ 55 is very very nice, and smooth, interstate quality. I can see how most locals are just fine with its utility. A blue shield doesn't and wouldn't change that.

I did read that there were intentions to build the last 20 miles of it, but either funding, or just lack of interest?

This is a thing that I don't entirely understand about other states. This incessant need to grab interstate numbers. North Carolina seems to covet them like candy, and it's why we now have a southern I-87. NJ has a number of interstate grade state routes (the southern section of 18, all of modern 24--which, to be fair, I believe was supposed to be the western part of 278 but still, and the Middlesex portion of 440 from the Turnpike to the OBX come to mind) which would not benefit anyone from getting a red, white, and blue shield. I don't get the obsession with it. Do states still think they'll attract more business if they can advertise that their town is on the interstate? Is that still a thing in 2019?
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storm2k

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2557 on: September 11, 2019, 01:58:50 PM »

The other question I have is about the toll collections. Are all of the booths/gantries *Cash Only* or EZPass? Do the booths take credit cards too? I've been too nervous to get up there and ask last second with a line behind me ha. I hardly carry cash anymore and I don't have the comfort of loose change in my own vehicle, which is back in NC garaged while I'm away lol.

None of NJ's toll authorities take credit cards. All of the lanes on the Parkway main line and the Turnpike take EZ-Pass regardless of if they also take cash (they're moving to calling those lanes "full service" little by little). I'm not sure about the Atlantic City Expressway. None of the bridge or tunnel authorities take credit cards either, but some either are already cashless "bill by plate" already. All of the PANYNJ crossings are moving to this model. Not sure about the DRBA, DRPA, although DRJTBC got their first toll-by-plate facility with the Scudders Fall Bridge, and I'm sure we'll eventually see them move their other facilities to this model as well.
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PHLBOS

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2558 on: September 11, 2019, 02:46:28 PM »

This is a thing that I don't entirely understand about other states. This incessant need to grab interstate numbers. North Carolina seems to covet them like candy, and it's why we now have a southern I-87. NJ has a number of interstate grade state routes (the southern section of 18, all of modern 24--which, to be fair, I believe was supposed to be the western part of 278 but still, and the Middlesex portion of 440 from the Turnpike to the OBX come to mind) which would not benefit anyone from getting a red, white, and blue shield. I don't get the obsession with it. Do states still think they'll attract more business if they can advertise that their town is on the interstate? Is that still a thing in 2019?
Initially, the intent to designate an existing highway as an Interstate was due to the fact that Interstates usually had a higher federal funding contribution.  Prior to 1991, Interstates (excluding grandfathered toll roads) had a 90/10 federal/state funding mix in terms of maintenance and/or upgrades.  Not sure there's still a higher federal funding contribution today; but I do know it's no longer 90/10.

Another reason may be that some states may still have speed limit laws that only allow Interstates to receive higher speed limits.  Such was initially the case in ME during the post-1987 NSL era; a section of then-unnumbered Maine Turnpike received an Interstate designation so that the maximum speed limit could increase from 55 to 65 mph.

Not sure whether NC has a similar speed limit restriction for their non-Interstate freeways or if there's still a funding difference.
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storm2k

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2559 on: September 11, 2019, 03:57:51 PM »

This is a thing that I don't entirely understand about other states. This incessant need to grab interstate numbers. North Carolina seems to covet them like candy, and it's why we now have a southern I-87. NJ has a number of interstate grade state routes (the southern section of 18, all of modern 24--which, to be fair, I believe was supposed to be the western part of 278 but still, and the Middlesex portion of 440 from the Turnpike to the OBX come to mind) which would not benefit anyone from getting a red, white, and blue shield. I don't get the obsession with it. Do states still think they'll attract more business if they can advertise that their town is on the interstate? Is that still a thing in 2019?
Initially, the intent to designate an existing highway as an Interstate was due to the fact that Interstates usually had a higher federal funding contribution.  Prior to 1991, Interstates (excluding grandfathered toll roads) had a 90/10 federal/state funding mix in terms of maintenance and/or upgrades.  Not sure there's still a higher federal funding contribution today; but I do know it's no longer 90/10.

Another reason may be that some states may still have speed limit laws that only allow Interstates to receive higher speed limits.  Such was initially the case in ME during the post-1987 NSL era; a section of then-unnumbered Maine Turnpike received an Interstate designation so that the maximum speed limit could increase from 55 to 65 mph.

Not sure whether NC has a similar speed limit restriction for their non-Interstate freeways or if there's still a funding difference.

AFIAK, there hasn't been any increased federal money for building interstates in a long time. That's my point about states going gaga for the shield.
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jcarte29

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2560 on: September 11, 2019, 04:13:18 PM »

This is a thing that I don't entirely understand about other states. This incessant need to grab interstate numbers. North Carolina seems to covet them like candy, and it's why we now have a southern I-87. NJ has a number of interstate grade state routes (the southern section of 18, all of modern 24--which, to be fair, I believe was supposed to be the western part of 278 but still, and the Middlesex portion of 440 from the Turnpike to the OBX come to mind) which would not benefit anyone from getting a red, white, and blue shield. I don't get the obsession with it. Do states still think they'll attract more business if they can advertise that their town is on the interstate? Is that still a thing in 2019?
Initially, the intent to designate an existing highway as an Interstate was due to the fact that Interstates usually had a higher federal funding contribution.  Prior to 1991, Interstates (excluding grandfathered toll roads) had a 90/10 federal/state funding mix in terms of maintenance and/or upgrades.  Not sure there's still a higher federal funding contribution today; but I do know it's no longer 90/10.

Another reason may be that some states may still have speed limit laws that only allow Interstates to receive higher speed limits.  Such was initially the case in ME during the post-1987 NSL era; a section of then-unnumbered Maine Turnpike received an Interstate designation so that the maximum speed limit could increase from 55 to 65 mph.

Not sure whether NC has a similar speed limit restriction for their non-Interstate freeways or if there's still a funding difference.


Outstanding insight, thank you for that. I can shed a little light on NC roads, but only by my long time daily travel experiences on them, not by the proper laws, or policies, or formulas for funding.

The highest speed limit on any divided freeway in the state is 70mph, and while typically reserved for our proper Interstate mainlines and belts (85, 40, 26, 95, 77, 73, 74, 485, etc...), it doesn't have to be to get a 70mph designation.

For example, the US 74 By-Pass around south side of Rockingham, NC (home of a former NASCAR sanctioned track) is interstate standard and has a 70mph speed limit currently, even without a blue shield.

US 52 south of Winston-Salem is another good example that comes to mind. It has since been designated I-285, new shields going up this month.

Another example was "NC 44" (temp designation for US 70 By-Pass, future I-42) around Goldsboro, NC. It was built to Interstate Standard and given a 70mph pretty quickly a few years back. It was recently approved to get I-42 shields as soon as NCDOT wants to.
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Interstates I've driven on (Complete and/or partial, no particular order)
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40, 85, 95, 77, 277(NC), 485(NC), 440(NC), 540(NC), 795(NC), 140(NC), 73, 74, 840(NC), 26, 20, 75, 285(GA), 81, 64, 71, 275(OH), 465(IN), 65, 264(VA), 240(NC), 295(VA), 526(SC), 985(GA), 395(FL), 195(FL)

bzakharin

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2561 on: September 11, 2019, 07:57:55 PM »

There might be a benefit to extending I-76 to Atlantic City. It's the next logical city after Philadelphia, and is already signed as a control point on existing I-76 in NJ, I believe. It may make things more clear for non-locals traveling a long distance on I-76 to Atlantic City. As it is, I-76 ends in the middle of nowhere (from a destination perspective, obviously it's a major interchange with multiple freeways), which might be why locals are still calling it route 42. After all, if it doesn't go anywhere, it might as well be truncated to I-95 in Philadelphia.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 08:00:17 PM by bzakharin »
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Rothman

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2562 on: September 11, 2019, 08:30:48 PM »

As has been stated many times on here, the cost of converting the ACE to I-76 would be considerable for not much more benefit than is being attained currently.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2563 on: September 11, 2019, 09:54:56 PM »

There might be a benefit to extending I-76 to Atlantic City. It's the next logical city after Philadelphia, and is already signed as a control point on existing I-76 in NJ, I believe. It may make things more clear for non-locals traveling a long distance on I-76 to Atlantic City. As it is, I-76 ends in the middle of nowhere (from a destination perspective, obviously it's a major interchange with multiple freeways), which might be why locals are still calling it route 42. After all, if it doesn't go anywhere, it might as well be truncated to I-95 in Philadelphia.

What's the difference about it ending at one interstate highway vs. another interstate highway?

How are non-locals having a difficult time understanding the highway scheme? Are they driving down the road, see signs for the Atlantic City Expressway, and suddenly get all flustered and wind up at the TGI Friday's crying to the bartender how they can't figure our what road takes them to Atlantic City?

The other question I have is about the toll collections. Are all of the booths/gantries *Cash Only* or EZPass? Do the booths take credit cards too? I've been too nervous to get up there and ask last second with a line behind me ha. I hardly carry cash anymore and I don't have the comfort of loose change in my own vehicle, which is back in NC garaged while I'm away lol.

None of NJ's toll authorities take credit cards. All of the lanes on the Parkway main line and the Turnpike take EZ-Pass regardless of if they also take cash (they're moving to calling those lanes "full service" little by little). I'm not sure about the Atlantic City Expressway. None of the bridge or tunnel authorities take credit cards either, but some either are already cashless "bill by plate" already. All of the PANYNJ crossings are moving to this model. Not sure about the DRBA, DRPA, although DRJTBC got their first toll-by-plate facility with the Scudders Fall Bridge, and I'm sure we'll eventually see them move their other facilities to this model as well.

All ACX toll lanes takes EZ Pass, including on the ramps. The DRBA also takes EZ Pass in all lanes.

The DRPA is the dinosaur...still only accepting EZ Pass in EZ Pass only lanes.
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bzakharin

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2564 on: September 12, 2019, 03:14:43 PM »

There might be a benefit to extending I-76 to Atlantic City. It's the next logical city after Philadelphia, and is already signed as a control point on existing I-76 in NJ, I believe. It may make things more clear for non-locals traveling a long distance on I-76 to Atlantic City. As it is, I-76 ends in the middle of nowhere (from a destination perspective, obviously it's a major interchange with multiple freeways), which might be why locals are still calling it route 42. After all, if it doesn't go anywhere, it might as well be truncated to I-95 in Philadelphia.

What's the difference about it ending at one interstate highway vs. another interstate highway?

How are non-locals having a difficult time understanding the highway scheme? Are they driving down the road, see signs for the Atlantic City Expressway, and suddenly get all flustered and wind up at the TGI Friday's crying to the bartender how they can't figure our what road takes them to Atlantic City?
No, but they can map out their route. "I'll take I-76 to Atlantic City via Youngstown, Harrisburg, and Philadelphia". They'll know to get back on I-76 if they need to get off the highway for food, lodging, whatever.
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signalman

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2565 on: September 13, 2019, 06:33:19 AM »

There might be a benefit to extending I-76 to Atlantic City. It's the next logical city after Philadelphia, and is already signed as a control point on existing I-76 in NJ, I believe. It may make things more clear for non-locals traveling a long distance on I-76 to Atlantic City. As it is, I-76 ends in the middle of nowhere (from a destination perspective, obviously it's a major interchange with multiple freeways), which might be why locals are still calling it route 42. After all, if it doesn't go anywhere, it might as well be truncated to I-95 in Philadelphia.

What's the difference about it ending at one interstate highway vs. another interstate highway?

How are non-locals having a difficult time understanding the highway scheme? Are they driving down the road, see signs for the Atlantic City Expressway, and suddenly get all flustered and wind up at the TGI Friday's crying to the bartender how they can't figure our what road takes them to Atlantic City?
No, but they can map out their route. "I'll take I-76 to Atlantic City via Youngstown, Harrisburg, and Philadelphia". They'll know to get back on I-76 if they need to get off the highway for food, lodging, whatever.
First off, as has been noted upthread and perhaps elsewhere on the forum, the ACX is not going to become I-76.  The cost to benefit ratio is just not there.  I honestly don't think there are any navigation issues accessing AC via the current roads and their respective numbers/names.  There may have been a stronger argument for converting NJ 42 and the ACX many years ago.  Nowadays, AC just isn't the destination that it once was.  That ship has sailed.

roadman65

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2566 on: September 13, 2019, 10:11:41 AM »

This is not North Carolina where every existing freeway must get interstate funding.  Yes it is an idea with merit, but NJ is not just interested in going all out to convert existing highways to interstate standards for the red, white, and blue shield.   Otherwise the NJ Turnpike would be I-895 and NJ 24 would have an x78 number.

Kansas only converted their unnumbered part of their turnpike because of the 65 max stipulation back before the national speed limit cap was repelled so it can get raised to 65 mph at the time.  The part of I-335 is a rural stretch with only one interchange in 50 miles which was dumb to have it at 55 mph.  So KTA asked KDOT to ask AASHTO to designate it into the system. 


Also keep in mind that NJ won't ask the Feds either to truncate I-78 either (which it needs to be as 12th Street and Boyle Plaza in Jersey City both are not freeways) because of the same effort needed to hold public hearings, apply to AASHTO, and the other tape.  Though its not signed that well anyway and from NY one can take the I-78 signs there as TO meaning.

Nice thing to do with a lot of merit, but NJ controls their roads.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #2567 on: September 13, 2019, 11:21:38 AM »

Federal, State and Local funding is also easily confused.  For most states, the majority of the funding is from the feds.  That federal money can be used on any roadway in the state, as long as it meets federal guidelines.  So while it was well known the 90/10 Fed/State split existed for initial interstate highway construction, federal money can also be utilized to repave Main Street Alleyway in Little Town, Anywhere.
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