Control City "Snubbing"

[southshore720]

I've always wondered why Holbrook was never acknowledged for Rte 37 (Exit 6) on the Northbound side.  (Even a secondary "Holbrook, Exit 6" would've done the trick.)  Since 37 technically ends at I-93, why the need to address W. Quincy?  It's easier to access W. Quincy at Exit 8.

I posted the above from a previous thread because I wanted to go off-topic.  Does anyone have any other examples of control city "snubbing?"

On top of this one I mention, there is another one further down on Rte. 3.

Route 3 Southbound has Exits 16B-A for Rte 18, Weymouth/Abington and the village of S. Weymouth on a secondary sign.  Route 3 Northbound's Exit 16 shows Rte 18 for Weymouth/S. Weymouth and no mention of Abington anywhere northbound.  (Ironically, the paddle sign at the end of the Exit 16 off-ramp indicates Abington for Rte. 18 South).  I wonder why Abington was not a secondary sign NB for either Exit 15 (which would make more sense geographically) or Exit 16.

[PHLBOS]

A repost from the fore-mentioned thread:

MA 37 didn't always end at I-93 (old MA 128).  W. Quincy was a carry-over from when it was originally a northbound MA 37 destination. 

When the current BGS' for the Braintree Split were erected in the mid-1980s, the old 60s-era BGS' for this exit (from I-93 North/MA 128 South) actually had the W. eliminated from the BGS'.  The likely reason may have been due to Quincy was no longer listed for the then-new I-93 northbound signage; the old 60s-era BGS had Quincy/Boston listed as North 3 destinations.

[ATLRedSoxFan]

I've always wondered why Holbrook was never acknowledged for Rte 37 (Exit 6) on the Northbound side.  (Even a secondary "Holbrook, Exit 6" would've done the trick.)  Since 37 technically ends at I-93, why the need to address W. Quincy?  It's easier to access W. Quincy at Exit 8.

I posted the above from a previous thread because I wanted to go off-topic.  Does anyone have any other examples of control city "snubbing?"

On top of this one I mention, there is another one further down on Rte. 3.

Route 3 Southbound has Exits 16B-A for Rte 18, Weymouth/Abington and the village of S. Weymouth on a secondary sign.  Route 3 Northbound's Exit 16 shows Rte 18 for Weymouth/S. Weymouth and no mention of Abington anywhere northbound.  (Ironically, the paddle sign at the end of the Exit 16 off-ramp indicates Abington for Rte. 18 South).  I wonder why Abington was not a secondary sign NB for either Exit 15 (which would make more sense geographically) or Exit 16.

I noticed that a few weeks ago and wondered why the lack of consistancy.

[spooky]

I've always wondered why Holbrook was never acknowledged for Rte 37 (Exit 6) on the Northbound side.  (Even a secondary "Holbrook, Exit 6" would've done the trick.)  Since 37 technically ends at I-93, why the need to address W. Quincy?  It's easier to access W. Quincy at Exit 8.

I posted the above from a previous thread because I wanted to go off-topic.  Does anyone have any other examples of control city "snubbing?"

On top of this one I mention, there is another one further down on Rte. 3.

Route 3 Southbound has Exits 16B-A for Rte 18, Weymouth/Abington and the village of S. Weymouth on a secondary sign.  Route 3 Northbound's Exit 16 shows Rte 18 for Weymouth/S. Weymouth and no mention of Abington anywhere northbound.  (Ironically, the paddle sign at the end of the Exit 16 off-ramp indicates Abington for Rte. 18 South).  I wonder why Abington was not a secondary sign NB for either Exit 15 (which would make more sense geographically) or Exit 16.

I think a secondary sign NB for Abington would make the most sense at Exit 13, which is signed for Rte 123.

[southshore720]

I didn't like how they paired the actual town name (Weymouth) with the village (S. Weymouth) on the sign.  I've never been a fan of village names on BGSs.  Your average traveler is not going to be familiar with the many villages within a town.  BGSs should stick to the actual town/city name if they must name one or not at all if there are multiple exits within the town/city (instead using secondary signage:  "<Town/City Name>, Next # Exits" or "<Town/City Name>, Exits ##-##").  I don't see a lot of consistency with this in the Northeast.  Maybe it's better in other regions of the country.

[Henry]

Two quintessential examples of this lie on I-95:

a. Southbound in Petersburg, VA, the signs for its split with I-85 mention Emporia/Rocky Mount/Miami and Durham/Atlanta, respectively. Where are Fayetteville, Savannah, Jacksonville, Greensboro, Charlotte, etc.?

b. Northbound from Baltimore, the signs read New York with no mention of Philadelphia, at least until you get close to its mega-interchange with I-295 and I-495 in Wilmington, DE.

[UNDSIOUX]

On US-45 and then US-41 going out of Milwaukee, I was always puzzled how much Appleton is ignored as a control city.  No offense to Fond du Lac (but a gleaming example of Wisconsin using its undersized cities as control cities instead of the places people are likely trying to head to- like Eau Claire on I-94), but Appleton is the largest of the Fox Cities- the shopping and cultural center of the region.  But you are hard pressed to find a control sign- the first inkling that you may headed to Appleton is the multi-city mileage sign (sorry if I am using the wrong terminology) around Allenton.  I still think that the control sign for US-45 (or the new I-41) at the Zoo Interchange should be "Appleton-Fox Cities" to reflect that region instead of just FDL, but I know that is a pipe dream.

Also, I find it hilarious that we cheddarheads tend to always ignore Duluth, especially as a control city on our signs acting like we believe that the world ends at Superior.  US-53 should be signed Duluth somewhere (like a mention of it on I-94 near Eau Claire), but to my knowledge that does not exist.   Even on the local news, if anything is going on weatherwise, it's "up in Superior".  Always made it seem like we were ignorant that there's an even bigger (and better IMO) city up there.

[UNDSIOUX]

Oh, two more-

Fargo on I-94 throughout Minnesota- I don't think that it is on any of the signs on I-94 as a CC (maybe on the entrance ramps as you get closer).  It's St. Cloud out of Minneapolis and then they play the Moorhead BS game (even though it is across the river).  The best is when they start the game of posting both the distances to Moorhead and Fargo on the mileage sign- give me a break- what a waste of time.

I never felt Winnipeg received any respect on I-29 north of Fargo.  I understand why Grand Forks is a CC, but the only decent sized CC sign for Winnipeg is on US2 in GFK (and nothing marked on I-29 itself).  I just point to the fact that a majority of the traffic is driving on thru to the 'Peg when exiting at Fargo.  Winnipeg is big enough it should share CC rights with Grand Forks out of Fargo (I-29 North, Grand Forks, Winnipeg).  But this does not bother me as much as the Moorhead BS or East St. Louis BS examples I have seen.

[Scott5114]

Agreed that using "East St. Louis" is a total joke. Nobody is headed to East St. Louis, and just plain St. Louis is shorter and more well known, so why not just leave off the "East"?

[roadman65]

Why does the New York State Thruway Authority snub Toronto on I-190 in Buffalo?  On the Peace Bridge signs it uses Fort Erie and previously only Canada. True Fort Erie is the city across the river on the Peace Bridge, but Toronto is a major city and is more important than a mere suburb as that particular city is only that.

[NWI_Irish96]

South Bend is never used as a control city on the Indiana Toll Road (I-80/90).  Control "cities" are Chicago and Ohio for the entire length of the road.

[thenetwork]

Up until about 10 years ago, Nearly all the BGSs for I-70 West out of Columbus had Indianapolis as the CC.  They have since changed the vast majority of signs to Dayton, although the city proper is several miles south of I-70 on I-75.  I know Indiana used to snub Dayton on I-70 East out of Indy in favor of Columbus, but I don't know if they gave credit for Dayton of late like Columbus did.

Meanwhile, in Colorado, I-70 West out of Grand Junction is slowly chipping away at replacing Green River (Utah) with just Utah as the "control city" as they replace BGSs.

[roadman65]

Indy is now using "Dayton" instead of Columbus, O. like it once did.  When there in 08, I saw some Columbus O signs still left though.

Huntsville is now used on I-65 between Birmingham and Nashville.  At I-40 in Music City, Birmingham was once used years ago, but when there in 03 I saw Huntsville.  Also in Birmingham at I-20/I-59 Huntsville is used, but I do not know for sure if Nashville was ever used there though.

The thing is Huntsville is several miles away from I-65 and not even serviced just like Dayton for I-70.

[PHLBOS]

I know there's an old photo of it somewhere (NE2 likely has it in his library) but when the MassDPW erected large BGS at the original Central Artery/Northeast Expressway/I-93 interchange in Boston during the early 70s; the BGS for the southbound artery originally read:

95 SOUTH
  Boston
Cape Cod. 

Given the fact that this BGS was designed well before the cancellation of the Southwest Expressway and I-95 itself through Boston became official; it seems a bit odd that Cape Cod would be listed for a I-95 south destination rather than Providence.

Note: the I-95 shield was replaced w/a MA 3 shield shortly thereafter the BGS was erected and later a I-93 shield circa 1976.

Today, the new BGS' (at the completely-reconfigured interchange) read:

  SOUTH
   93  1
  Boston
Cape Cod

Again, Providence is snubbed as a southbound remote destination even though US 1 does indeed go through Providence and I-93 ends at I-95 (the major north-south highway to Providence) in Canton.  Note: I'm aware of the MA 3 ghost multiplex for the subsequent O'Neill Tunnel & Southeast Expressway but still.

Further south along I-93 via said-Southeast Expressway, newly-erected LGS' at each interchange (see Bob7374's I-93 Signing thread); Cape Cod is still being used for a remote southbound destination even though MA 3 shields have been since been banished to supplemental trailblazer/resassurance signs.  The first mention of Providence for I-93 southbound destination on BGS' is at the Braintree split (Exit 7/MA 3 South).

My suggestions for the paddle LGS along the Southeast Expressway would be to either elimnate the local destination listings (for a Cape Cod/Providence alternative) or simply replace the Cape Cod listing with Providence and maintain the local destinations (Quincy or Braintree depending on location).

PA

With few exceptions (Springfield and Marple (somewhat) for Delaware County), PennDOT will never list townships on their BGS' & LGS'.  They'll list Valley Forge and King of Prussia, which have their own zip code but aren't actually towns, along with cities and boroughs; but never will one see a listing of Upper Merion (the township that Valley Forge & KoP are actually situated in) on guide signs.

[Alps]

One could mention NJ using Netcong and Del Water Gap to avoid mentioning Stroudsburg or anything else in PA. (Delaware Water Gap is the name of the first town over the border, but also in general the park on both sides of the river.)

[Zeffy]

One could mention NJ using Netcong and Del Water Gap to avoid mentioning Stroudsburg or anything else in PA. (Delaware Water Gap is the name of the first town over the border, but also in general the park on both sides of the river.)

I-78 does this quite well using Phillipsburg on the pullthrough BGS even though technically I-78 does not enter Phillipsburg, and you must exit as US 22 / NJ 122 to get there.



http://goo.gl/maps/Tm3Hx
Although I do not think that that BGS is there anymore, 'New Hope' is probably the better control city here. But that would make a mention of a place not in New Jersey that isn't the name of the state itself. Well to be fair, on the PA side it just says 'New Jersey' as well. But if you notice the LGS on the left that even says 'New Hope via toll bridge' - so why the hell does the BGS just say Pennsylvania?

[Revive 755]

Agreed that using "East St. Louis" is a total joke. Nobody is headed to East St. Louis, and just plain St. Louis is shorter and more well known, so why not just leave off the "East"?

Or use "Troy" since it is at least a major junction with I-270 and maybe with the Gateway Connector/Outer Loop some decade.

[Alps]

One could mention NJ using Netcong and Del Water Gap to avoid mentioning Stroudsburg or anything else in PA. (Delaware Water Gap is the name of the first town over the border, but also in general the park on both sides of the river.)

I-78 does this quite well using Phillipsburg on the pullthrough BGS even though technically I-78 does not enter Phillipsburg, and you must exit as US 22 / NJ 122 to get there.

Of course, that sign dated to when I-78 was supposed to follow the 22 corridor.

[roadman65]

Better yet, the sign was placed when the I-78 freeway ended at present day Exit 3 in Greenwich, NJ. You had no choice but to use US 22 from that particular point westward.

[Alps]

Better yet, the sign was placed when the I-78 freeway ended at present day Exit 3 in Greenwich, NJ. You had no choice but to use US 22 from that particular point westward.

I envision a sequel to "_Simon"'s dream story...

[tdindy88]

Just thought of what I think is a good example of snubbing along the new Interstate 69 in Southern Indiana. Exit 34 along the highway is with SR 64 and features the control cities of Princeton and Huntingburg, ignoring the nearby community of Oakland City, home to Oakland City University (which does get one mention on an auxilary sign.) By any account, the exit serves Oakland City moreso than it does Princeton (which has better access to Evansville via US 41) and Huntingburg (better reached from I-64 and US 231.)

More recently, the new SR 26 exit off of the US 31 Kokomo Bypass features control cities of Lafayette and Hartford City, skipping closer communities of Russiaville and Fairmount. Thought the Lafayette mention can be excusable since SR 26 is a major highway connecting Kokomo with Lafayette and you can chalk up the mention as being an actual control city akin to Kokomo and South Bend for US 31.

[mukade]

The biggest recent snub I have seen is on I-475 in Toledo where the new US 24 Fort to Port signage shows Napoleon (westbound) rather than Fort Wayne and Maumee (eastbound), and Fort Wayne is hardly mentioned in Ohio. On the Indiana side, the eastbound guide signs do show Toledo as the control city. On US 24 at US 6, you see Kendallville and Chicago as control cities, though.

BTW, I was surprised to see most of the stretch from Toledo to Napoleon posted at 70MPH - even where at grade intersections exist near Napoleon.

[roadman65]

Better yet, the sign was placed when the I-78 freeway ended at present day Exit 3 in Greenwich, NJ. You had no choice but to use US 22 from that particular point westward.

I envision a sequel to "_Simon"'s dream story...

I have actually been around longer than you.  Also you can look at factual evidence too.  I-78 into Pennsylvania was opened in 1990, and that sign predates that, and when I-78 ended there at Still Valley motorists had no choice but to use US 22 to reach the PA part of I-78 west of Allentown.  I think you had to pass through Phillipsburg en route just as you did Easton which is another control city used in NJ for I-78 WB.

FYI the button copies with Exit numbers went up in the mid 1980's as I-78 did not have exit numbers prior to that.  In fact Exits 33, 36, and 40 used road names: Martinsville Road, King George Road, and Hilcrest Road instead of the county route numbers.  That sign at Exit 20 was part of that same project as before that it used another assembly with fluorescent fixtures.

Common Steve, even you should be able to determine the age of that sign as you have seen it in person.  You know I-78 through Phillipsburg was killed many years prior to its determined age.

[thenetwork]

The biggest recent snub I have seen is on I-475 in Toledo where the new US 24 Fort to Port signage shows Napoleon (westbound) rather than Fort Wayne and Maumee (eastbound), and Fort Wayne is hardly mentioned in Ohio. On the Indiana side, the eastbound guide signs do show Toledo as the control city. On US 24 at US 6, you see Kendallville and Chicago as control cities, though.

BTW, I was surprised to see most of the stretch from Toledo to Napoleon posted at 70MPH - even where at grade intersections exist near Napoleon.

Napoleon has always been the CC for US-24 West out of the Maumee area.  There is nothing wrong with "snubbing" Fort Wayne in Toledo. 

[mukade]

The biggest recent snub I have seen is on I-475 in Toledo where the new US 24 Fort to Port signage shows Napoleon (westbound) rather than Fort Wayne and Maumee (eastbound), and Fort Wayne is hardly mentioned in Ohio. On the Indiana side, the eastbound guide signs do show Toledo as the control city. On US 24 at US 6, you see Kendallville and Chicago as control cities, though.

BTW, I was surprised to see most of the stretch from Toledo to Napoleon posted at 70MPH - even where at grade intersections exist near Napoleon.

Napoleon has always been the CC for US-24 West out of the Maumee area.  There is nothing wrong with "snubbing" Fort Wayne in Toledo. 

Napoleon population: 8,749
Fort Wayne population: 254,555
Toledo population: 287,208

When US 24 was a two lane highway, Napoleon was a good choice. Now that it is a freeway/expressway all the way through, I don't think so.