New Jersey Turnpike

[roadman65]

Was it not shut down for several years as I do remember it was partially built back in 09 when I drove through there then?  Probably now everyone wants it to be completed as the half way built eyesore was probably annoying people who passed by on both Route 3 and The Turnpike.

[SignBridge]

Tell that to New York State DOT! LOL

But seriously folks, the way NJTA uses those letters denotes which leg of the Turnpike you're on, not the direction of the exit roadway, so it might fly.

On the other hand the Manual also says (Sec. 2E-31-04) that exit numbers are not to be consecutive but must be mileage based which in this case would open up a whole new Pandora's Box. I'm half surprised the NJTA didn't implement that while they're converting to MUTCD signing and that the Federal Hwy. Admin. didn't require them to do it.

[SignBridge]

Roadman, I found it, just not where I thought it was! Not in the Federal Manual, but in New York's Manual from almost 15 years ago, before they abolished it and adopted the Federal Manual with a State Supplement  Their section 252.23 (b) stated (paraphrased) that if the exit number plaque is wider than the Advance or Exit Direction sign then those signs should be widened to be consistent with the width of the exit number plaque. It was only a recommendation, not even a standard, but I knew I'd seen it somewhere. (chuckle!) I don't know if it's included in New York's current supplement. Funny thing is NYSDOT doesn't even follow their own rules in all cases.

And apologies to all for being off-topic.

[odditude]

You might be right roadman. Could be wishful thinking on my part.

Also note that the 2009 MUTCD does not allow the use of 'N, E, S, and W' as exit number suffixes.  From Section 2E.31:

Exit numbers shall not include the cardinal initials corresponding to the directions of the cross
route.

this doesn't apply in this case - the suffixes on the Turnpike don't refer to the direction of the cross route. Exit 16E resides on the Eastern Spur, Exit 16W resides on the Western Spur.

[storm2k]

Was it not shut down for several years as I do remember it was partially built back in 09 when I drove through there then?  Probably now everyone wants it to be completed as the half way built eyesore was probably annoying people who passed by on both Route 3 and The Turnpike.

The original owners lost funding when lehman bros went under during the recession in 2009 and their other backers pulled out of the deal. that's how triple 5 (current owners) came to own the site.

[Pete from Boston]

In 2002, with the prospect of losing one or both its arena tenants (the Nets and Devils) to new facilities, the New Jersey Sports and Exhibition Authority started a process to prepare for redevelopment of the arena site. 

Construction started on the incorrectly-named "American Dream" project (then named "Xanadu") in 2004.

In 2005, construction started on a new arena in Newark.  The Devils moved there in 2007.

In 2010 construction started on a new arena in Brooklyn.  The Nots moved there in 2012.

The Meadowlands arena closed completely in January 2015.

American Dream is still neither finished nor open.  This month marks eleven years since the project was begun.

[roadman65]

Not even for concerts, is the IZOD Center still open for?

[spooky]

Not even for concerts, is the IZOD Center still open for?

Not it is.

[roadman]

You might be right roadman. Could be wishful thinking on my part.

Also note that the 2009 MUTCD does not allow the use of 'N, E, S, and W' as exit number suffixes.  From Section 2E.31:

Exit numbers shall not include the cardinal initials corresponding to the directions of the cross
route.

this doesn't apply in this case - the suffixes on the Turnpike don't refer to the direction of the cross route. Exit 16E resides on the Eastern Spur, Exit 16W resides on the Western Spur.

Thanks for the clarification.  My bad - have removed the previous post.

[roadman65]

Not even for concerts, is the IZOD Center still open for?

Not it is.

That is a shame, as it is just barely over 34 years old and lots of people from my generation have fond memories of concerts there.  I saw Clapton three times there, REO Speedwagon, Tom Petty twice, MeatLoaf, Grateful Dead, and I think a few more.

Such as shame that the Nets moved to Brooklyn and the Devils moved to Newark along with Seton Hall Basketball.  Of course we live in a sports world that changes arenas and stadium like people change underwear.  If the stadium is not upgraded every so many years, then the teams walk except for the Chicago Cubs, and Boston Red Sox who have fans that want to keep their respected stadiums.  Heck look at the fight the MLB had to go with Chicago just to get lights installed at Wrigley Field.

[Pete from Boston]

Not even for concerts, is the IZOD Center still open for?

Not it is.

That is a shame, as it is just barely over 34 years old

And at 34, third-oldest in both the NBA and NHL.

[jeffandnicole]

Not even for concerts, is the IZOD Center still open for?

Not it is.

That is a shame, as it is just barely over 34 years old

And at 34, third-oldest in both the NBA and NHL.

Not many people are grieving over loss of an arena inconveniently built in the middle of a swamp.

[roadman65]

Back in the 80's things were different.  We had many landmark concerts there and some did not mind going to a place that had no mass transit unlike the Pru in Newark that is near Penn Station.

Yes, an arena nowadays is old after 10 years, but that is wrong as the old saying goes, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it."   However, that is the trend now to build new arenas to keep up with our fast times not realizing that a stadium/arena is just some stands with seats in them, but the owners of the teams want first class all the way.  The Orlando Magic threatened to leave Orlando if we did not built them a new arena, so Buddy Dyer did so.  If I could bet on how long this arena will last before the Magic decide to get a future mayor or city council to build another new one, I would say by 2030, if the world lasts, this present one will be imploded.

[Pete from Boston]

Not even for concerts, is the IZOD Center still open for?

Not it is.

That is a shame, as it is just barely over 34 years old

And at 34, third-oldest in both the NBA and NHL.

Not many people are grieving over loss of an arena inconveniently built in the middle of a swamp.

An arena built on the Turnpike and Route 3 within a few miles of three crossings to New York and Routes 80 and 17.

Considering that the bulk of North Jersey folks drive, convenience of access was not something I ever heard anyone complain about in my decades there.  Manhattanites had a harder time, something that should have been addressed better, but they already had a hockey and basketball team.

Trust me, people who can afford things like hockey tickets with any regularity probably preferred not going into Newark. 

[OracleUsr]

I miss the classic giant signs, but this new signage is pretty cool nonetheless.

[roadman65]

I miss them too, but then again its great to see control cities along the way. Hopefully that I-78 gets their signs for the mainline with Trenton, and whatever for Northbound being New York cannot be used there as I-78 goes there as well.  I am guessing that the George Washington Bridge would have to be used as I do not think NJTA would use New Haven.

[storm2k]

I miss them too, but then again its great to see control cities along the way. Hopefully that I-78 gets their signs for the mainline with Trenton, and whatever for Northbound being New York cannot be used there as I-78 goes there as well.  I am guessing that the George Washington Bridge would have to be used as I do not think NJTA would use New Haven.

NB looks to be George Washington Bridge based on replaced signs near 16W.

[Alps]

Not even for concerts, is the IZOD Center still open for?

Not it is.

That is a shame, as it is just barely over 34 years old

And at 34, third-oldest in both the NBA and NHL.

Not many people are grieving over loss of an arena inconveniently built in the middle of a swamp.

An arena built on the Turnpike and Route 3 within a few miles of three crossings to New York and Routes 80 and 17.

Considering that the bulk of North Jersey folks drive, convenience of access was not something I ever heard anyone complain about in my decades there.  Manhattanites had a harder time, something that should have been addressed better, but they already had a hockey and basketball team.

Trust me, people who can afford things like hockey tickets with any regularity probably preferred not going into Newark. 

The Newark stadium is an A+ venue. I find it easy to get there with a raft of options, whereas the Meadowlands is limited to 1) shitty rail, 2) drive, 3) drive.
4) drive.
Looks like American Dream will be opening shortly, which is fine, because now it won't compete with arena traffic so it won't overload the network any worse than a poorly timed hockey or basketball game during football season.

[roadman65]

Yes the old Brendan Byrne Arena was a hassle to get to in them days and I won't argue with you on that one, but back in the 1980's we got used to it.  I am sure if the Prudential Center was built then we would have enjoyed this one more.

The debate was not about its limited accessibility, but the fact it was a cultural icon.  Many people from my generation saw such acts as Springsteen, The Dead, The Stones, and many more that John Scheer put out after it was opened.  Many had great parties outside and many had their dates join them for events, that will always be remembered just like those who grew up in the 50s, 60s, and 70s remembered the Drive In Movies that are very scarce to say the least nowadays. 

Some people have memories that you can take away the ole Meadowlands Arena from them, but you cannot take the person out of the Meadowlands.  Its a part of history if you became of age in the 80's and possibly early 90's as I left NJ in late 1990. 

[odditude]

The Newark stadium is an A+ venue. I find it easy to get there with a raft of options, whereas the Meadowlands is limited to 1) shitty rail, 2) drive, 3) drive.
4) drive.

the Rock is indeed fantastic, but traffic on McCarter (NJ 21) sucks horribly. granted, my comparison is Philly's Sports Complex, which has awesome accessibility.

[Pete from Boston]

Not even for concerts, is the IZOD Center still open for?

Not it is.

That is a shame, as it is just barely over 34 years old

And at 34, third-oldest in both the NBA and NHL.

Not many people are grieving over loss of an arena inconveniently built in the middle of a swamp.

An arena built on the Turnpike and Route 3 within a few miles of three crossings to New York and Routes 80 and 17.

Considering that the bulk of North Jersey folks drive, convenience of access was not something I ever heard anyone complain about in my decades there.  Manhattanites had a harder time, something that should have been addressed better, but they already had a hockey and basketball team.

Trust me, people who can afford things like hockey tickets with any regularity probably preferred not going into Newark. 

The Newark stadium is an A+ venue. I find it easy to get there with a raft of options, whereas the Meadowlands is limited to 1) shitty rail, 2) drive, 3) drive.
4) drive.
Looks like American Dream will be opening shortly, which is fine, because now it won't compete with arena traffic so it won't overload the network any worse than a poorly timed hockey or basketball game during football season.

During the time the arena was built, intra-New-Jersey transit was even more of an afterthought than it is today.  Under those circumstances, I don't recall any outcry (from folks over 16) over having to employ options 2-4, since this is how so much of everything else around there was reached.

[Alps]

The Newark stadium is an A+ venue. I find it easy to get there with a raft of options, whereas the Meadowlands is limited to 1) shitty rail, 2) drive, 3) drive.
4) drive.

the Rock is indeed fantastic, but traffic on McCarter (NJ 21) sucks horribly. granted, my comparison is Philly's Sports Complex, which has awesome accessibility.

See, I park and take the light rail in. Anything that comes to Newark Penn works perfectly for getting to the Rock. You can PATH from points east or take trains or buses.

[storm2k]

The Newark stadium is an A+ venue. I find it easy to get there with a raft of options, whereas the Meadowlands is limited to 1) shitty rail, 2) drive, 3) drive.
4) drive.

the Rock is indeed fantastic, but traffic on McCarter (NJ 21) sucks horribly. granted, my comparison is Philly's Sports Complex, which has awesome accessibility.

See, I park and take the light rail in. Anything that comes to Newark Penn works perfectly for getting to the Rock. You can PATH from points east or take trains or buses.

Agreed on this. Driving into downtown Newark is horrendous, but Metropark -> NWK Penn is a short train ride and then it's a short walk to the Rock.

[roadman65]

Not even for concerts, is the IZOD Center still open for?

Not it is.

That is a shame, as it is just barely over 34 years old

And at 34, third-oldest in both the NBA and NHL.

Not many people are grieving over loss of an arena inconveniently built in the middle of a swamp.

An arena built on the Turnpike and Route 3 within a few miles of three crossings to New York and Routes 80 and 17.

Considering that the bulk of North Jersey folks drive, convenience of access was not something I ever heard anyone complain about in my decades there.  Manhattanites had a harder time, something that should have been addressed better, but they already had a hockey and basketball team.

Trust me, people who can afford things like hockey tickets with any regularity probably preferred not going into Newark. 

The Newark stadium is an A+ venue. I find it easy to get there with a raft of options, whereas the Meadowlands is limited to 1) shitty rail, 2) drive, 3) drive.
4) drive.
Looks like American Dream will be opening shortly, which is fine, because now it won't compete with arena traffic so it won't overload the network any worse than a poorly timed hockey or basketball game during football season.

During the time the arena was built, intra-New-Jersey transit was even more of an afterthought than it is today.  Under those circumstances, I don't recall any outcry (from folks over 16) over having to employ options 2-4, since this is how so much of everything else around there was reached.

Your memory serves correct.  At one time everything in North Jersey was by car and back in the 80's when gas was under a buck a gallon, even with the inflation rate back then, it was cheap to drive around.  Most people back then, especially the 18-25 crowd loved to not only drive in general but to actually then buy used cars and take pride in fixing them up instead of nowadays with practically new cars for that age group and using a mechanic to repair them.

Of course we had carburetors and other such gismos before the current electronic ignition systems as well as replacing the original factory substandard radios with a store bought stereo with cassette decks that produced greater sounds then the factory sound systems did, so that made things easier for us and a better challenge for all car owners.  Nowadays even some mechanics do not even know what is under the hood anymore, but I will save that rant for a thread.

Yes times have changed, however here in Orlando we have no choice but to travel like we used to in New Jersey. SunRail is only linear and you have to live along Orange Avenue north of SandLake Road and in the lined communities of Winter Park, Maitland, Eastern Altamonte, Longwood, Lake Mary, and Sanford to be able to ride into our city for events and that is only for the Amway Centre.  If its at the newly remodled Florida Toilet Bowl, then the SunRail goes nowhere near the Stadium, so it does no good there either.

[storm2k]

Just an update on 2 old button copy signs from the 60s on death watch. The Turnpike entrance signs from 495 will be gone soon. New sign bridge is there with the new signs, just waiting for final install.

Also disappearing is the signbridge at Exit 10 just past the tolls. Again, new bridge is there with new signage waiting to be mounted (there were not mast arms when I drove through, so that one may be a bit longer). On a positive note, they actually signed 440NB's direction correctly. Who knows if they'll fix the rest of the signs through the circle.