New Jersey Turnpike

[roadman65]

Speaking of four lanes from 1 to 4, how is the traffic counts from 16W to the merge of the two spurs where it is also 4 lanes within just miles of NYC proper?  I always though that was very odd to have only four lanes there while the eastern spur has 6 with much lower ADT counts.  However, the eastern spur, I will give into the fact that it was built long before the western spur was built and was indeed the only through lanes from the south to the GWB, but the fact that it was never left as the original 4 lane turnpike and had the lane added eventually shows that much traffic did come from the south to cross the Hudson at the GWB then, so when the western spur took over as through I-95 it should have followed suit.

However, I am curious to know if congestion builds up on that part as well as the southern parts.

[storm2k]

Don't forget that you t isn't that far south of the end of dual-dual that the Turnpike goes down to two lanes at Exit 34 (old Exit 4).

Huh?  Are there plans to renumber the exits on the turnpike?

No. I think the Turnpike Authority will resist that until their last dying breath. That we have MUTCD-ish signage for the northern chunk of the roadway is move the earth impressive enough. I think just a bit of snark from someone wanting to see things changed.

[Alps]

Don't forget that you t isn't that far south of the end of dual-dual that the Turnpike goes down to two lanes at Exit 34 (old Exit 4).

Huh?  Are there plans to renumber the exits on the turnpike?

No. I think the Turnpike Authority will resist that until their last dying breath. That we have MUTCD-ish signage for the northern chunk of the roadway is move the earth impressive enough. I think just a bit of snark from someone wanting to see things changed.

That's a little overstated. They have bigger fish to fry than that, is all.

[mrsman]

Not that anyone was asking, but I was always of the opinion that the Turnpike should have split at the interchange instead of before it, similar to the "mixing bowls" in Newark and Teaneck. Split 3 lanes to a 2/2 configuration on the Pike, same on the Extension, then merge the 2/2 into 3 inner and 3 outer. 3+3 = 3+3, even if you get there with 2+2+2+2. However, I was informed that the desire to maintain 3 through lanes on the Turnpike, in case they need to close the inner or outer roadway, was paramount, hence the 3=3+3 scenario that they have. So given that necessity, it makes sense why they wouldn't do the merge you're proposing - because that would compromise the 3 through lanes.

What you are saying makes perfect sense in that there should be room for traffic from the Pearl Harbor extension should flow seemlessly, especially given the fact that the northbound turnpike is going from 3 lanes to 3+3 lanes.  Yet we understand the importance of providing for the contingency of closing one roadway for work.

I think one way that could have resolved this would be a design where the 3 lanes split into 3 + 3 as they currently do.  Then, the 2 lanes from the Pearl Harbor Extension come in on the right (for each roadway).  At this point, we have 5+5.  The right lane merges in quickly to have 4+4 and then about 1 mile further north the left lane merges in to have 3+3.  You provide the dedicated lane for I-95 traffic that you and others say is warranted and you also provide for a 3 lane Turnpike configuration.

The left lane of each roadway is really surplus except if one of the roadways is closed.  I believe that the lane should be closed during normal operations.  They can put in a red X lane similar to wahat they do on the Delaware Memorial Bridge (or on I-66 in VA near the Beltway).

[bzakharin]

Not that anyone was asking, but I was always of the opinion that the Turnpike should have split at the interchange instead of before it, similar to the "mixing bowls" in Newark and Teaneck. Split 3 lanes to a 2/2 configuration on the Pike, same on the Extension, then merge the 2/2 into 3 inner and 3 outer. 3+3 = 3+3, even if you get there with 2+2+2+2. However, I was informed that the desire to maintain 3 through lanes on the Turnpike, in case they need to close the inner or outer roadway, was paramount, hence the 3=3+3 scenario that they have. So given that necessity, it makes sense why they wouldn't do the merge you're proposing - because that would compromise the 3 through lanes.

What you are saying makes perfect sense in that there should be room for traffic from the Pearl Harbor extension should flow seemlessly, especially given the fact that the northbound turnpike is going from 3 lanes to 3+3 lanes.  Yet we understand the importance of providing for the contingency of closing one roadway for work.

I think one way that could have resolved this would be a design where the 3 lanes split into 3 + 3 as they currently do.  Then, the 2 lanes from the Pearl Harbor Extension come in on the right (for each roadway).  At this point, we have 5+5.  The right lane merges in quickly to have 4+4 and then about 1 mile further north the left lane merges in to have 3+3.  You provide the dedicated lane for I-95 traffic that you and others say is warranted and you also provide for a 3 lane Turnpike configuration.

The left lane of each roadway is really surplus except if one of the roadways is closed.  I believe that the lane should be closed during normal operations.  They can put in a red X lane similar to wahat they do on the Delaware Memorial Bridge (or on I-66 in VA near the Beltway).

I think this is a solution in search of a problem right now. Somehow the current setup has worked well all these years. If volume increases and weaving ever really becomes an issue, all they have to do is re-stripe the existing roadways.

[jeffandnicole]

I've also seen more often than it should happen where people conveniently ignore the red X's and lane closed signals unless there's something physically in the lane (ie: cone, cop, etc).

[KEVIN_224]

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/10-Unbelievable-Complaints-of-Bad-Behavior-by-NJ-Toll-Collectors-474480103.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_NYBrand

Story posted by WNBC-TV (NBC) channel 4 of New York City about bad habits of New Jersey toll collectors.

@ JEFFANDNICOLE: True or not?

[jeffandnicole]

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/10-Unbelievable-Complaints-of-Bad-Behavior-by-NJ-Toll-Collectors-474480103.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_NYBrand

Story posted by WNBC-TV (NBC) channel 4 of New York City about bad habits of New Jersey toll collectors.

@ JEFFANDNICOLE: True or not?

As you know, there's going to be 3 sides to the story...the toll taker's side, the customer's side, and the actual story.

That said, I can believe some of these stories, but not all. 

The ones that involve money being dropped on the ground - almost guaranteed true.  Hell, that happens at fast food drive-thru windows.

Some of them, such as #8, is probably exaggerated quite a bit. 

Take others, like #9:  The guy is in a booth for 8 hours.  At the Lincoln Tunnel, that means a constant flow of traffic his entire shift.  The likelihood the employee is doing that to the customers as they come thru is very slim, so I have my doubts about that one as well.

But yeah, I wouldn't doubt some of the stories.

[SignBridge]

I'm surprised to read all these complaints. In almost fifty years of driving I can't remember ever having had any problems with toll collectors anywhere. But then I was normally courteous to them and they were usually courteous to me.

In recent years with E-Z Pass I've hardly had any contact with collectors anymore. Is it possible that the newest generation of collectors is less courteous than previous generations?

J&N, are there cameras at any or all NJTP toll booths that could help prove what did or didn't happen in these cases? 

[Alps]

#3 didn't happen. Toll takers universally tell you to drive on when you drop your money. That throws a lot of it in doubt.
"Blood all over the money" probably means a spot of blood somewhere or a dry streak.

[roadman65]

As a toll collector in FL I can testify that we go through more these days then we ever did before.   Now with GPS and debit cards, no one has money anymore on their person. Plus the state with its high tolls does not help.  Then the GPS user do not read overhead and ramp signs to tell them that they are entering a road where they most likely are going to shell out cash.

We try to be courteous as much as we can, but when it gets busy its hard to be friendly.  I mean many of us are cordial and professional but to take time to just give a few extra words is hard.

Plus we are all weary of people claiming that our sign is wrong and that it should say the $2.50 we charge on it, even though it does.  The problem is that some motorists read the exit ramp toll price at Exits 8 & 9 previously which do charge $1.25 and think its ours.   They get mad at us when we know they forgot their job and the use of common sense when driving a motor vehicle.  You can only grin it and bear it so long and even our most friendly collectors end up breaking down.

Maybe that is the case in NJ too!

[jeffandnicole]

There are similar articles and stories in NJ thru the years of patron complaints.  They've always occurred...and will continue to occur.  The biggest difference today I would say is that people are much more likely to complain, being that they have a better ability to get ahold of the Turnpike via the web.  They can also take pictures, unlike in the past.

I mentioned elsewhere that in my 3.5 years of working part time (weekends), there was only 2 incidents where the patron requested my name (I would give them my first name and employee ID #).  One I can't recall (but nothing like anything mentioned in the story).  The other one: So...the lane next to me was closed.  The rest of the plaza was packed with at least 10 cars in each lane.  Some motorist comes speeding down the closed lane - red light above the booth and all - and enters the closed lane.  Obviously, no one is there.  Because I'm in the lane next to him, he wants me to take his money.  I can't do that...it's not my lane.  So then he wants me to exit my booth to help him back up and merge into my lane.  I'm not doing that.  Finally he backs up himself, squeezes in front of a car to enter my lane, then gives me shit for not helping him, the lane wasn't marked closed, etc.

In both cases, I was proactive - I documented my side of the story via paperwork and gave it to the supervisor at the end of my shift.  They honestly don't care themselves...all they do is forward up to the main Turnpike office.

I never heard anything else about either issue.  Either the patrons never filed a complaint, or that when they did file the complaint the Turnpike already had my side of the story, and I assume would've sided with me since, again, I never heard anything.

[roadman65]

I had one the other day where this skin head tattooed man who was pissed we don't take cards.  When I found disbelief he did not have the $2.25 in cash he raged in tone.  Called me a preacher and every time I said I was not being a preacher, he said "Shut the fuck up and call your supervisor."  I did that and when I gave the reason for her to come over to my lane, he was loud with "LIAR, LIAR" as I spoke on the intercom as he though I was prejudicing my supervisor.  Then I thought the guy was going to hit me and when I said go ahead, he turned it against me and tried to say I tried to start a fight and demanded my job!

Obviously he paid me and left in haste just a moment before my supervisor arrived.  I have not heard anything as no one said anything to me yet. 

I'm thinking the guy had Aspergers.  The way he talked and got raging mad, reminded me of those on here who have it who get into rage over the typical disagreement and constructive criticism plus we all know that is one of the many symptoms of that spectrum.  Anyway, to this day I kind of watch the tone I have because, as some of us here know, some with this disorder get really raged easily if the wrong frequency in the tone is used (or in writing as we can go to fictional highways and see some get boiling here lol).  I do not need another person who gets in my lane when I myself are not feeling well or in a bad mood myself, get into a serious rage again to deal with. 

[jeffandnicole]

At this very moment I have $0 in my wallet; probably less than $1 in change in the car.  So that part is believable (of course, he came up with the money, so that's just bullshit to give you the song and dance of not having it).

[SignBridge]

Being an old school driver, I still can't believe anyone, (especially a toll collector) actually drives around with no cash in their wallet. There are some retail establishments that still only take cash.

[Rothman]

I only have cash on me for long road trips.  90% of the time I don't carry any.

[jeffandnicole]

For the very few businesses that don't take credit cards, there's probably another store just down the road that does.

[jwolfer]

Drug dealers dont take cards.  That's about the only business where acceptance of cards is not ubiquitous.. now there are the Square and other apps that let even festival food vendors, artists and Craftsmen take cards.

I bet there are even dope dealers who take cards.

Although no one will refuse cash, with rare exception.

I have Zelle app through my online banking app.. I am able.to send money to friends/family for splitting bills, send money to my 18 and 21 year old etc.. I rarely have more than 20 in cash on me.

I usually put my silver change in one of the storage drawers in my dashboard. I use it for cold drinks at convenience stores.. I have Sunpass for tolls.

I also keep an emergency $20 stashed in my car in case something like a lost wallet. I went to my friends brewpub and my credit card was shut down because of a merchant I used having a data breach.. thankfully they let me pay next time, instead of having to go out to my car.

Z981

[CtrlAltDel]

Being an old school driver, I still can't believe anyone, (especially a toll collector) actually drives around with no cash in their wallet.

I usually don't. Not out of any sense of futuristic currency "edginess" or anything like that. I just haven't had the need to over the past ten or so years, and now it's a habit.

There are some retail establishments that still only take cash.

I don't often patronize these establishments, and if I did, I would have to make a special trip to the grocery store for cash back. 

[bzakharin]

I usually carry cash because gas stations around here charge extra for credit. Of course I rarely have (coin) change since the attendants try to get it to the nearest dollar. But ALDI is an example of a major grocery chain that still doesn't accept credit cards (only debit) and still requires you to insert a quarter to use a shopping cart. The café in a building I used to work at didn't accept credit for small purchases, so if I wanted a snack or some milk or something, I needed cash.

[SignBridge]

Yes well all of this is very surprising to me. I use cash for purchases under $20 to $25 and credit card for higher amounts. I'm amazed that people will buy a $2.00 cup of coffee at Starbucks using an app or credit card instead of just paying cash. To me it's absurd, because it takes them longer to pay than it does me with cash. One time I was delayed several minutes when the woman ahead of me was trying to use an app or QR code or something and it wasn't working. Ridiculous!

[Rothman]

Yes well all of this is very surprising to me. I use cash for purchases under $20 to $25 and credit card for higher amounts. I'm amazed that people will buy a $2.00 cup of coffee at Starbucks using an app or credit card instead of just paying cash. To me it's absurd, because it takes them longer to pay than it does me with cash. One time I was delayed several minutes when the woman ahead of me was trying to use an app or QR code or something and it wasn't working. Ridiculous!

Every point matters.  I use my credit card for everything I can to maximize its benefits.

[SignBridge]

Don't get me wrong though. I don't advocate using cash for paying tolls. I embraced E-Z Pass many years ago as the quickest, most efficient method. And I don't miss having to carry a shirt pocket full of bills for that purpose. Though I do sympathize with all those people who would be toll collectors who will now have one less job they can apply for in the coming AET era. Where are they going to work?

[jeffandnicole]

Don't get me wrong though. I don't advocate using cash for paying tolls. I embraced E-Z Pass many years ago as the quickest, most efficient method. And I don't miss having to carry a shirt pocket full of bills for that purpose. Though I do sympathize with all those people who would be toll collectors who will now have one less job they can apply for in the coming AET era. Where are they going to work?

Customer service dealing with AET calls, violations, etc.

[roadman]

I'm amazed that people will buy a $2.00 cup of coffee at Starbucks using an app or credit card instead of just paying cash. To me it's absurd, because it takes them longer to pay than it does me with cash.

^^^^ This.