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Author Topic: New Jersey Turnpike  (Read 608590 times)

Alps

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3175 on: March 26, 2020, 09:33:16 PM »

The maximum speed limit in NJ for 2-lane highways is only 50 mph.  Or are there any that are higher?
It seems rare, but some are posted at 55 mph.
NJ-72 -
NJ-70 -
Like Maryland and Delaware. 

Nearly all have a maximum of 50 mph except for a couple that are 55 mph.
And yes, the statutory maximum is 50 mph in the absence of anything else being posted.

Beltway

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3176 on: March 26, 2020, 09:36:09 PM »

The maximum speed limit in NJ for 2-lane highways is only 50 mph.  Or are there any that are higher?
It seems rare, but some are posted at 55 mph.  NJ-72 -   NJ-70 -
Like Maryland and Delaware.   Nearly all have a maximum of 50 mph except for a couple that are 55 mph.
And yes, the statutory maximum is 50 mph in the absence of anything else being posted.

What is the maximum for at-grade divided highways with 4 or more lanes?
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sprjus4

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3177 on: March 26, 2020, 09:36:31 PM »

The maximum speed limit in NJ for 2-lane highways is only 50 mph.  Or are there any that are higher?
It seems rare, but some are posted at 55 mph.  NJ-72 -   NJ-70 -
Like Maryland and Delaware.   Nearly all have a maximum of 50 mph except for a couple that are 55 mph.
And yes, the statutory maximum is 50 mph in the absence of anything else being posted.

What is the maximum for at-grade divided highways with 4 or more lanes?
For New Jersey, 55 mph is the maximum allowed, though I believe the statutory maximum is also 50 mph.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3178 on: March 26, 2020, 10:49:55 PM »

NJ, compared to other states, has a pretty basic but often misquoted or misunderstood law. And what's interesting...the quoted message sprjus4 took off the NJ website isn't even correct!  NJ has 3 statutory speed limits: 25, 35 and 50. When 65 mph was adopted, that was added. However, interestingly enough, 55 mph was never written into law, and 55 still isn't mentioned in the law. When the NMSL took effect, the limit on the roadways was dropped to 55, but that was done as a matter of policy to avoid losing federal funds. It wasn't mandated by a law.

NJ law never refers to the size of the road, how many lanes the road has, or whether it's full access or limited access.

Many confuse 50 mph as being the highest limit on a 2 lane road. The law never mentions that, and the speed limits written into law are referring to roadways that don't have a signed limit. Along with 70 and 72, CR 539 is a 55 mph roadway. Where 72 and 539 intersect, it's the only intersection in the state where all 4 legs are 55 mph roadways. And the intersection is very basic...doesn't even have left turn lanes!

The 2 lane roadway going from the Parkway into Sea Isle City was 55 mph as well, but was reduced to 50 due to construction.

There's a small piece of a 2 lane section of US 130 that could technically be considered a 55 mph road. Going south on 130 below the Commodore Barry Bridge, the 55 mph 2 lane-each-direction roadway eventually narrows to one lane per direction, where it should drop to 50 mph. The 50 mph sign got hit or otherwise went missing and was never replaced. There is a 50 mph sign about another half-mile south, but until then the single lane portion of 130 would need to be considered a 55 mph zone.

And when it comes to full access roadways with 4 lanes or greater,  NJ actually has a fair number of roads with 55 mph limits. More than most people realize.

Btw, here is the actual state statute. Again, note...there's nothing about 55 mph in it.

Quote
39:4-98 Rates of speed.

39:4-98. Rates of speed. Subject to the provisions of R.S.39:4-96 and R.S.39:4-97 and except in those instances where a lower speed is specified in this chapter, it shall be prima facie lawful for the driver of a vehicle to drive it at a speed not exceeding the following:

a.Twenty-five miles per hour, when passing through a school zone during recess, when the presence of children is clearly visible from the roadway, or while children are going to or leaving school, during opening or closing hours;

b. (1) Twenty-five miles per hour in any business or residential district;

(2)Thirty-five miles per hour in any suburban business or residential district;

c.Fifty miles per hour in all other locations, except as otherwise provided in the "Sixty-Five MPH Speed Limit Implementation Act," pursuant to section 2 of P.L.1997, c.415 (C.39:4-98.3 et al.).
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cpzilliacus

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3179 on: March 27, 2020, 01:28:09 AM »

NJ, compared to other states, has a pretty basic but often misquoted or misunderstood law. And what's interesting...the quoted message sprjus4 took off the NJ website isn't even correct!  NJ has 3 statutory speed limits: 25, 35 and 50. When 65 mph was adopted, that was added. However, interestingly enough, 55 mph was never written into law, and 55 still isn't mentioned in the law. When the NMSL took effect, the limit on the roadways was dropped to 55, but that was done as a matter of policy to avoid losing federal funds. It wasn't mandated by a law.

NJ law never refers to the size of the road, how many lanes the road has, or whether it's full access or limited access.

Just wish that the New Jersey legislature would get with reality and allow 70 or 75 on roads under NJTA jurisdiction.  Note that I am not saying that the entire Turnpike and Parkway should be posted for 70 or 75, but IMO much of both could be.
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Beltway

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3180 on: March 27, 2020, 09:12:07 AM »

New Jersey never had more than 60 mph, pre-NMSL of 1973.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3181 on: March 27, 2020, 10:44:04 AM »

Nj.com had a story last year where they took some speed samples of our highways using a radar gun (they admit the sampling was unscientific). The clear answer was speed limits should often be 75 or 80 mph.

https://www.nj.com/data/2018/08/should_the_speed_limit_on_njs_highways_be_higher_we_used_a_radar_gun_to_find_the_answer.html

Of course, they allowed AAA to weigh in, and no surprise here, they say speed limits should be kept lower.

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Beltway

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3182 on: March 27, 2020, 11:15:39 AM »

Reminds me of articles in Car and Driver that I read around 1970 when I first saw that, they wanted to "set all the speed limits to the 85th percentile."

Even with high school math background I could see the gimmick at play here, they wanted to try to normalize group behavior that is well over to one side of the normal distribution ("bell curve").

80 mph speed limits in New Jersey?  Suuuuurrree.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3183 on: March 27, 2020, 11:48:29 AM »

Nj.com had a story last year where they took some speed samples of our highways using a radar gun (they admit the sampling was unscientific). The clear answer was speed limits should often be 75 or 80 mph.

https://www.nj.com/data/2018/08/should_the_speed_limit_on_njs_highways_be_higher_we_used_a_radar_gun_to_find_the_answer.html

Of course, they allowed AAA to weigh in, and no surprise here, they say speed limits should be kept lower.
https://www.nj.com/data/2018/08/should_the_speed_limit_on_njs_highways_be_higher_we_used_a_radar_gun_to_find_the_answer.html

Here's an interesting article.

I-287, Route 55, New Jersey Turnpike, I-295, and the Atlantic City Expressway, with 55 mph or 65 mph speed limits, all have 85th percentile speeds at or above 77 mph, with the New Jersey Turnpike in Chesterfield having an 85th percentile speed of 82 mph, just north of I-95 enters where the Turnpike is 12 lanes, wide open.

80 mph speed limits in New Jersey?  Suuuuurrree.
Seems fairly reasonable on long stretches on the New Jersey Turnpike. The roadway can easily handle that speed in many areas, and the vast majority of drivers drive in excess of 75 mph already. The speed limit should reflect road design and 85th percentile speeds. 65 mph does not.
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Beltway

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3184 on: March 27, 2020, 12:46:59 PM »

80 mph speed limits in New Jersey?  Suuuuurrree.
Seems fairly reasonable on long stretches on the New Jersey Turnpike. The roadway can easily handle that speed in many areas, and the vast majority of drivers drive in excess of 75 mph already. The speed limit should reflect road design and 85th percentile speeds. 65 mph does not.
No it doesn't.   The focus on the "85th percentile" was cooked up about 40 years ago by motorist advocacy groups many of whom wanted speed limits to ultimately be abolished.

You won't see 80 mph east of the Mississippi, and only 2 states have ever had anything over 70, that being 75.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3185 on: March 27, 2020, 01:00:43 PM »

You won't see 80 mph east of the Mississippi, and only 2 states have ever had anything over 70, that being 75.
West Virginia is permitted to post up to 75 mph now, actually attempted 80 mph previously, and North Carolina nearly passed legislation authorizing 75 mph on rural freeways back in 2013, though never got all the way through. This is not to say it could not become a thing in the future.

70 mph or 75 mph would be reasonable on the Turnpike, if not 80. 65 mph is too low.
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Alps

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3186 on: March 27, 2020, 08:10:02 PM »

Speed limit discussion snipped. Back to other discussion.

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3187 on: March 29, 2020, 11:38:00 AM »

Guess we just disagree.

I see the need to expand from 4 to 6 lanes from 3 to 4, but not south of 3.
Frankly, I like the NJTP being 4 lanes at the beginning, it's really nice to see one remaining segment of the original highway still there, and cool how the massive 14 lane NJTP riddles down to 4 lanes.

Again as well, why not just make exit 4 to 6 8 lanes?
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sprjus4

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3188 on: March 29, 2020, 12:52:14 PM »

Again as well, why not just make exit 4 to 6 8 lanes?
Quite frankly, if the merge from 3 lanes to 2 lanes southbound can be a bottleneck, imagine 4 lanes going into 2 lanes.

If the turnpike is going to be built to handle the capacity / demand, it would be 3x3 down to Exit 1.

I agree Exits 4 to 6 will eventually need 4x4, but after Exits 1 to 3 is expanded to 3x3 first.
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Alps

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3189 on: March 29, 2020, 12:57:07 PM »

Guess we just disagree.

I see the need to expand from 4 to 6 lanes from 3 to 4, but not south of 3.
Frankly, I like the NJTP being 4 lanes at the beginning, it's really nice to see one remaining segment of the original highway still there, and cool how the massive 14 lane NJTP riddles down to 4 lanes.

Again as well, why not just make exit 4 to 6 8 lanes?
Going by what they've listed, it looks like the last stretch of Newark Bay Extension east of Columbus Blvd. exit will still be original 2x2 highway.

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3190 on: March 29, 2020, 11:15:21 PM »

Guess we just disagree.

I see the need to expand from 4 to 6 lanes from 3 to 4, but not south of 3.
Frankly, I like the NJTP being 4 lanes at the beginning, it's really nice to see one remaining segment of the original highway still there, and cool how the massive 14 lane NJTP riddles down to 4 lanes.

Again as well, why not just make exit 4 to 6 8 lanes?

I drive the New Jersey Turnpike from Interchanges 1 to 6 somewhat frequently, and usually on weekends and holidays.  Based on what I see then, it definitely needs to be at least six lanes all the way from the U.S. 40 ramps to Exit 4.  Not clear to me that it needs to be widened from 4 to 6 right now.

As for the "look and feel" of the original Turnpike south of Exit 4, I really cannot discern that much difference between the sections between 1 and 4 and from 4 to the point where the "dual dual" Turnpike begins south of Exit 6.

But left lane misuse is a problem on the Turnpike south of 4, and there is a lot of lane changing that goes on in part because the road is only two lanes each way.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3191 on: March 31, 2020, 11:48:44 AM »

Am I correct in assuming this Turnpike Entrance sign has a piece that flips up to read "Turnpike Closed?"



And is the "Closed" lettering green too? Or is it red?

« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 12:34:04 PM by D-Dey65 »
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jeffandnicole

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3192 on: March 31, 2020, 10:03:54 PM »

Am I correct in assuming this Turnpike Entrance sign has a piece that flips up to read "Turnpike Closed?"



And is the "Closed" lettering green too? Or is it red?



I believe that's correct.

It was rarely used, if at all. If they don't want people entering the Turnpike, they'll block the ramp with a vehicle or construction signage and cones.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3193 on: April 04, 2020, 07:35:42 AM »

Guess we just disagree.

I see the need to expand from 4 to 6 lanes from 3 to 4, but not south of 3.
Frankly, I like the NJTP being 4 lanes at the beginning, it's really nice to see one remaining segment of the original highway still there, and cool how the massive 14 lane NJTP riddles down to 4 lanes.

Again as well, why not just make exit 4 to 6 8 lanes?

I drive the New Jersey Turnpike from Interchanges 1 to 6 somewhat frequently, and usually on weekends and holidays.  Based on what I see then, it definitely needs to be at least six lanes all the way from the U.S. 40 ramps to Exit 4.  Not clear to me that it needs to be widened from 4 to 6 right now.

As for the "look and feel" of the original Turnpike south of Exit 4, I really cannot discern that much difference between the sections between 1 and 4 and from 4 to the point where the "dual dual" Turnpike begins south of Exit 6.

But left lane misuse is a problem on the Turnpike south of 4, and there is a lot of lane changing that goes on in part because the road is only two lanes each way.


It makes logical sense to rebuild 1-4 to 6 total lanes. Makes construction safer if you have to move traffic away from the workers when a median repair is required, or the shoulder needs to be repaired after a vehicle fire. It also makes sense to rebuild all the bridges down there, since a 6 lane turnpike would require new over and underpasses.
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bluecountry

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3194 on: April 06, 2020, 10:08:26 AM »

Again as well, why not just make exit 4 to 6 8 lanes?
Quite frankly, if the merge from 3 lanes to 2 lanes southbound can be a bottleneck, imagine 4 lanes going into 2 lanes.

If the turnpike is going to be built to handle the capacity / demand, it would be 3x3 down to Exit 1.

I agree Exits 4 to 6 will eventually need 4x4, but after Exits 1 to 3 is expanded to 3x3 first.
NO, I am saying a slow taper.

Exit 6 to 4, goes from 12 to 8 lanes, exit 4 to 3, goes 8 to 6 lanes, then exit 3 to 2, 4 lanes.

I think that is better than making it 6 lanes from the start.
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bluecountry

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3195 on: April 06, 2020, 10:12:36 AM »

Guess we just disagree.

I see the need to expand from 4 to 6 lanes from 3 to 4, but not south of 3.
Frankly, I like the NJTP being 4 lanes at the beginning, it's really nice to see one remaining segment of the original highway still there, and cool how the massive 14 lane NJTP riddles down to 4 lanes.

Again as well, why not just make exit 4 to 6 8 lanes?
Going by what they've listed, it looks like the last stretch of Newark Bay Extension east of Columbus Blvd. exit will still be original 2x2 highway.
That should be expanded.
They MUST expand all sections in the north to 6 lanes well before they do so at exit 1.

Guess we just disagree.

I see the need to expand from 4 to 6 lanes from 3 to 4, but not south of 3.
Frankly, I like the NJTP being 4 lanes at the beginning, it's really nice to see one remaining segment of the original highway still there, and cool how the massive 14 lane NJTP riddles down to 4 lanes.

Again as well, why not just make exit 4 to 6 8 lanes?

I drive the New Jersey Turnpike from Interchanges 1 to 6 somewhat frequently, and usually on weekends and holidays.  Based on what I see then, it definitely needs to be at least six lanes all the way from the U.S. 40 ramps to Exit 4.  Not clear to me that it needs to be widened from 4 to 6 right now.

As for the "look and feel" of the original Turnpike south of Exit 4, I really cannot discern that much difference between the sections between 1 and 4 and from 4 to the point where the "dual dual" Turnpike begins south of Exit 6.

But left lane misuse is a problem on the Turnpike south of 4, and there is a lot of lane changing that goes on in part because the road is only two lanes each way.
I drive it all the time, I never get stuck in delays.
I may have steady volume, and I may not be able to hit cruise control, I may not be able to go much faster than the low 70s, but that is hardly a pressing issue worth complaining about, that is still green, free flowing traffic.

Moreover, the southern portion of the NJTP south of exit 3 has a real pretty, almost parkway like feel to it with a nice canopy.
It reminds me of the Merrit Parkway in CT and I would hate for it to lose that over some rather non essential issue.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3196 on: April 06, 2020, 10:34:21 AM »

I drive it all the time, I never get stuck in delays.
I may have steady volume, and I may not be able to hit cruise control, I may not be able to go much faster than the low 70s, but that is hardly a pressing issue worth complaining about, that is still green, free flowing traffic.
The highway isn’t reliable during peak times, leading to travel speeds anywhere from 45 mph - 70 mph, random stop-and-go occurrences, and is packed tightly. This may seem okay in your eyes, but that’s an issue that needs fixing.

It needs 6 lanes, and will be getting such treatment in the next decade.

You argue it may not need 6 lanes now due to your experiences, how about 15 or 20 years from now? The situation is already an issue (not in your eyes) and will only get worse.

Quote
Moreover, the southern portion of the NJTP south of exit 3 has a real pretty, almost parkway like feel to it with a nice canopy.
It reminds me of the Merrit Parkway in CT and I would hate for it to lose that over some rather non essential issue.
There’s not much difference in design between the 4 and 6 lane segments.

Retaining a parkway design isn’t a reason to push off widening, which is an essential issue.
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Beltway

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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3197 on: April 06, 2020, 10:39:49 AM »

Moreover, the southern portion of the NJTP south of exit 3 has a real pretty, almost parkway like feel to it with a nice canopy.
It reminds me of the Merrit Parkway in CT and I would hate for it to lose that over some rather non essential issue.
It has a 25-foot median that is paved and has a concrete median barrier and has 12-foot paved right shoulders.  https://tinyurl.com/tq498rn  It is not a parkway design, but a full Interstate design, and the narrow median is an urban design.

Same cross-section and looks basically the same as the 6-lane sections, just 6 lanes instead of 4.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3198 on: April 06, 2020, 10:48:49 AM »

Moreover, the southern portion of the NJTP south of exit 3 has a real pretty, almost parkway like feel to it with a nice canopy.
It reminds me of the Merrit Parkway in CT and I would hate for it to lose that over some rather non essential issue.
It has a 25-foot median that is paved and has a concrete median barrier and has 12-foot paved right shoulders.  https://tinyurl.com/tq498rn  It is not a parkway design, but a full Interstate design, and the narrow median is an urban design.

Same cross-section and looks basically the same as the 6-lane sections, just 6 lanes instead of 4.
Yes but the narrow median means the tree coverage is pretty good, like the merit.
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Re: New Jersey Turnpike
« Reply #3199 on: April 06, 2020, 11:12:22 AM »

Yes but the narrow median means the tree coverage is pretty good, like the merit.
All of those features exist on the 6 lane section as well.

4 lane - https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8557317,-75.0954429,3a,75y,77.08h,85.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9wOxgyhUmYtRnDC0akPDaw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
6 lane - https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9469403,-74.9326141,3a,75y,50.81h,87.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL9tjYX_1CvGPYnBJtU2J1g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1

6 lane widening would involve adding one lane to the outside in each direction, along with replacing / widening overpasses as needed.
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