New Jersey Turnpike

[storm2k]

It has just been announced that Governor Murphy will veto the NJTA's proposed toll increases.

It'll quietly get approved in December after the legislative elections are settled. No one wants this to be used as a political cudgel so close to the elections.

[jeffandnicole]

It has just been announced that Governor Murphy will veto the NJTA's proposed toll increases.

It'll quietly get approved in December after the legislative elections are settled. No one wants this to be used as a political cudgel so close to the elections.

The next meeting is 11/21.  So chances are...then. 

https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.njta.com%2Fmedia%2F7107%2F2023-board-meeting-dates.docx&wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

[rover]

I think widening the stretch from Exit 4 to the southern end is far more important than an interchange with I-295.

Disagree.
-Widening the west spur to six lanes fully
-Widening the NJTP to 4 lanes from exit 4 to exit 3
-Having connections between the car and car/truck lanes
-Connecting the NJTP with RT42
-Connecting 295 to 95 at exit 6 are more important

If they were considering connecting I-295 where it crosses the PA Extension, they'd only really need two ramps. I-295N to I95N and I95S to I295S. The traffic patterns at Exit 7 (I-295 Exit 56) and Exit 4 likely confirm this. The other connections can be done via Exit 6A if crossing to/from PA. From a regional perspective, I can't imagine too many people doing any of the other connections.

I think there should be a full connection at Exit 6A between I-95 and I-295.  It defies the interstate system to have a spur route not connect to the main route.

It does connect, both at its southern terminus at I-95 / I-495 in Delaware, and also at its "northern" terminus at I-95 and the Pennsylvania Turnpike across the river.

That is so far away as to not be relevant.

If they were considering connecting I-295 where it crosses the PA Extension, they'd only really need two ramps. I-295N to I95N and I95S to I295S. The traffic patterns at Exit 7 (I-295 Exit 56) and Exit 4 likely confirm this. The other connections can be done via Exit 6A if crossing to/from PA. From a regional perspective, I can't imagine too many people doing any of the other connections.

I think there should be a full connection at Exit 6A between I-95 and I-295.  It defies the interstate system to have a spur route not connect to the main route.

95 and 895 in Baltimore doesn't either where they cross.

Ignoring that 95 was just designated here less than 10 years ago, this intersection of highways is less than a mile from the next Interchange on the Turnpike, making it difficult to construct properly.

No reason, since 895 merges with 95 like a mile north.

[ixnay]

Widening the NJTP to 4 lanes from exit 4 to exit 3

4 lanes each way between exits 4 and 3?

[jeffandnicole]

I think widening the stretch from Exit 4 to the southern end is far more important than an interchange with I-295.

Disagree.
-Widening the west spur to six lanes fully
-Widening the NJTP to 4 lanes from exit 4 to exit 3
-Having connections between the car and car/truck lanes
-Connecting the NJTP with RT42
-Connecting 295 to 95 at exit 6 are more important

These sound like...suggestions certain others may have frequently posted in the past.

No reason, since 895 merges with 95 like a mile north.

It's 4 miles away.  But you can't say...

I think there should be a full connection at Exit 6A between I-95 and I-295.  It defies the interstate system to have a spur route not connect to the main route.

...and then give other spur/main intersections passes, regardless of distance.  It's either one or the other. And your reasoning is basically "Because they have to"; not because there's an actual need.  Sure, in normal highway building two major highways that intersect each other have an interchange.  But there's no requirement to do so, including if they're parent/child.

[Alps]

Widening the NJTP to 4 lanes from exit 4 to exit 3

4 lanes each way between exits 4 and 3?

but 3 lanes north of there

[sprjus4]

I think widening the stretch from Exit 4 to the southern end is far more important than an interchange with I-295.

Disagree.
-Widening the west spur to six lanes fully
-Widening the NJTP to 4 lanes from exit 4 to exit 3
-Having connections between the car and car/truck lanes
-Connecting the NJTP with RT42
-Connecting 295 to 95 at exit 6 are more important

These sound like...suggestions certain others may have frequently posted in the past.

New user joins, makes post basically verbatim to a recently banned user... seems normal to me 

[1995hoo]

Widening the NJTP to 4 lanes from exit 4 to exit 3

4 lanes each way between exits 4 and 3?

He doesn't know how to describe the number of lanes on a road. He uses the number of lanes per side as his way of referring to how many lanes the road has. Thus, presumably he would refer to what most of us call a two-lane road (one lane each way with passing zones over the center line) as "one-lane." See below.

Any reason why the NJTP NB divides into 3+3 just before exit 6, and SB the divide ends just after?

Usually the road would continue as 3 lanes then when the PATP/95 enters at exit 6 it would become 3+3.

This question came up during their public study period.  While no longer linked on the NJ Turnpike's website, a Google Search will find documents relating to the widening at www.njturnpikewidening.com .  On Page 12 of http://www.njturnpikewidening.com/documents/Interchange6-9WideningProgramExecutiveOrderNo.172-PublicHearingReport.pdf (and possibly other places), they referenced why they designed the merge south of Interchange 6: They performed comprehensive analyses of alternative configurations, and this design was considered to provide the best operation and safety.

I remember being at a public hearing and asking someone about this also.  They stated their analysis showed it was better to allow traffic to continue thru the interchange, and do the merging at a separate location.  If done at the interchange, especially on the SB side, "Exit Only" lanes would need to be built, and they often have a tendency for traffic to merge in or out of them at the last moment. 

I also recall it being mentioned that their analysis showed that only 5 lanes would be needed between Interchanges 6 & 7A, but after their experiences with 5 lanes between Interchanges 8A & 9, they decided to build 6 lanes throughout, which will significantly assist traffic when either the inner or outer roadway is closed.

The widening south of Interchange 6 is probably an unusual case in NJ where a highway was widened well beyond what was needed for traffic, but to accommodate a smooth merging process, they built it the way we see it.

It was interesting to note that the subject of 4 laning the Turnpike between Interchanges 5 & 6 did come up, which you have referenced often, but the Turnpike didn't deem it necessary.  See Pages 34 - 35.  It noted that their analysis expected the merge Southbound would start congesting in 2023. We're here in 2023, and that does not appear to be occurring.

SB I understand, have the PATP traffic exit first, then merge from 6 to 3.
NB is what I do not understand. 
  Why have the road become 3+3, and then have both the inner and outer 3's have exit 6?
  Wouldn't it have made more sense to continue NB with 3 lanes, adding one aux for exit 6 (which very few people from SB use) then have the 3 lanes split to 2+2 adding the 3rd lane with the PATP merge?

Also, I LOVE how it is 3+3 from exit 6 onward, because that part you can FLY!

One more thing, I long have said the NJTP should be 4 lanes from exit 6 to exit 4, then 3 lanes to exit 3, and then 2 lanes after through the rural part.

[roadman65]

I think once his plans are implemented, the speed limit should be raised to 85 mph and numbered to I-266.

[sprjus4]

I think once his plans are implemented, the speed limit should be raised to 85 mph and numbered to I-266.

wut?

[J N Winkler]

I think once his plans are implemented, the speed limit should be raised to 85 mph and numbered to I-266.

wut?

Just an inside reference to another banned user who is no longer with us.

[tmoore952]

No reason, since 895 merges with 95 like a mile north.

It's 4 miles away.  But you can't say...

Where 895 and 95 cross (wo interchange) in Baltimore is right where 83 would have come in when built. It would have come in around Boston St.
Boston St. does have interchanges with both 895 and 95 although I don't think all movements are possible.

I remember being driven through there on what is now 895 around 1983 when 95 was being built. Putting in an interchange there would be challenging. You are very close to the north portal of the Harbor Tunnel.

According to Wikipedia, the Harbor Tunnel Thruway was designated as I-895 in 1979. I thought it was a little later than that, but whatever. Point is that is was not an interstate for a very long time (25+ years).

[sprjus4]

I think once his plans are implemented, the speed limit should be raised to 85 mph and numbered to I-266.

wut?

Just an inside reference to another banned user who is no longer with us.

I get that part - just not sure how it is relevant to the NJTP.

[LilianaUwU]

I think once his plans are implemented, the speed limit should be raised to 85 mph and numbered to I-266.

wut?

Yeah, it should be I-366.

[The Ghostbuster]

I would prefer the non-Interstate segment of the New Jersey Turnpike to be numbered either Interstate 695 or Interstate 895, although it will likely always remain unsigned NJ 700.

[Rothman]

I would prefer the non-Interstate segment of the New Jersey Turnpike to be numbered either Interstate 695 or Interstate 895, although it will likely always remain unsigned NJ 700.

What is happening in this thread...

[Alps]

I would prefer the non-Interstate segment of the New Jersey Turnpike to be numbered either Interstate 695 or Interstate 895, although it will likely always remain unsigned NJ 700.

They've assigned 695 to the Easterly Alignment, so only 895 is left.

[jeffandnicole]

In order to help distinguish between traffic issues and roadway closures on the car and truck lanes, especially utilizing GPS systems, and to provide the full Turnpike with an Interstate number...

From South to North: 

I-95 should enter NJ from the NJ/PA Turnpike Delaware River Bridge, then at Interchange 6 follow the outer roadway, then the westerly alignment, then continue towards the George Washington Bridge.

I-695 should start at the base of the Delaware Memorial Bridge as it veers away from I-295, follow the southern portion of the Turnpike from Interchanges 1 - 6, then the inner roadway, then the Easterly Alignment, terminating with 95 just before I-80.

BAM!  No one steal my idea.

[Ted$8roadFan]

ICYMI: electronic tolling coming to NJ.


https://www.governing.com/transportation/new-jersey-starts-transition-to-cashless-toll-collection

[Rothman]

ICYMI: electronic tolling coming to NJ.


https://www.governing.com/transportation/new-jersey-starts-transition-to-cashless-toll-collection

Well, the ACE, anyway.

[Mr. Matté]

BAM!  No one steal my idea.

So what about the part of the outer lanes just south of exit 6?? Can't have those be blank. Since 895 might still be used for the new Burlington Bristol Bridge, I-1095?

[MASTERNC]

ICYMI: electronic tolling coming to NJ.


https://www.governing.com/transportation/new-jersey-starts-transition-to-cashless-toll-collection

Well, the ACE, anyway.

I think the agreement was signed with the NJTA and the SJTA (who runs the ACE) a few years ago.  The ACE might be the first one but it sounds like AET is coming to at least the Garden State Parkway not long after.

[vdeane]

BAM!  No one steal my idea.

So what about the part of the outer lanes just south of exit 6?? Can't have those be blank. Since 895 might still be used for the new Burlington Bristol Bridge, I-1095?

Why not?  From a numbering perspective, they'd be ramps.  Long and wide ones, but ramps.

[jeffandnicole]

BAM!  No one steal my idea.

So what about the part of the outer lanes just south of exit 6?? Can't have those be blank. Since 895 might still be used for the new Burlington Bristol Bridge, I-1095?

Why not?  From a numbering perspective, they'd be ramps.  Long and wide ones, but ramps.

Or copying the idea of unmarked I-76C, which is the highway 'stub' that goes from Walt Whitman Bridge over US 130 to NJ 168, that inner roadway can be unmarked I-695C.

ICYMI: electronic tolling coming to NJ.


https://www.governing.com/transportation/new-jersey-starts-transition-to-cashless-toll-collection

Well, the ACE, anyway.

I think the agreement was signed with the NJTA and the SJTA (who runs the ACE) a few years ago.  The ACE might be the first one but it sounds like AET is coming to at least the Garden State Parkway not long after.

The conversion to AET is part of each agency's future Capital Plan.

For the NJTA:  On Page 12 of https://www.njta.com/media/7226/2023-2027_projects-summary-2023-01-10.pdf it notes money will be spent in 2025, then in 2027.  And that's just the start of it.  Per Pages 29 & 30 of https://www.njta.com/media/5832/2020_njtalongrangecapitalplan_v1-as-approved-may-2020.pdf , the entire AET conversion for both the NJ Turnpike and Garden State Parkway will run about $900 million!

For the SJTA:  On PDF Page 9 of https://www.sjta.com/sjta/pdfs/2020/2020%20Capital%20Plan.pdf , the proposed project will be $40 million.  On Page 3 of   https://www.sjta.com/sjta/publish/library/Public_Notices/May%2017,%202023%20Board%20Agenda.pdf , contracts were awarded earlier in 2023 for about $35 million to construct the AET system on the AC Expressway, in which it appears gantries will be placed over the roadway between each interchange.

[roadman65]

AET is part of progress. It's coming wether we like it or not. Get used to it.

Even the Will Rogers Turnpike in Oklahoma is getting it. Was talking to a toll booth collector at the Vinita plaza and she says her days are numbered. She was sad about it as she loved her job, but as we all know, automation is here and we have no choice but to go along.