I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange

[NJRoadfan]

Hopefully it includes signs that have exotic destinations like "Philadelphia" on them, particularly at GSP exit 129.

[roadman65]

Yeah right!  Did not the NJTA remove Philadelphia from the ACE guides in Egg Harbor?  They opted for Camden.

I think the only Philly used destinations are only along US 30 from Atlantic City.  Oh yes, US 130 has it on a mileage sign in North Brunswick.  NJ don't like Philadelphia I get the impression, but also Maryland is another one with New York on I-95 ramp signs from Baltimore northward.

[bzakharin]

Yeah right!  Did not the NJTA remove Philadelphia from the ACE guides in Egg Harbor?  They opted for Camden.

The ACE is run by the SJTA, a separate agency not related to the NJTA. And it list Philadelphia as a destination in many locations. Besides, what other changes on the GSP could they be talking about? The current exit signs already say "NJTP - I-95 - Trenton"

I think the only Philly used destinations are only along US 30 from Atlantic City.  Oh yes, US 130 has it on a mileage sign in North Brunswick.  NJ don't like Philadelphia I get the impression, but also Maryland is another one with New York on I-95 ramp signs from Baltimore northward.

I-295 North is signed for "Philadelphia" past US 1: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2877121,-74.6910473,3a,75y,216.58h,78.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scJSUF_Za5E1MoStS7_87xA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I-76 is signed for Philadelphia: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8722231,-75.0878431,3a,75y,258.98h,81.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfwCQsnxhmNtrixbID3uxkA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
Other crossings name the bridge instead

[famartin]

Yeah right!  Did not the NJTA remove Philadelphia from the ACE guides in Egg Harbor?  They opted for Camden.

The ACE is run by the SJTA, a separate agency not related to the NJTA. And it list Philadelphia as a destination in many locations. Besides, what other changes on the GSP could they be talking about? The current exit signs already say "NJTP - I-95 - Trenton"

He means these signs on the parkway:

I think the only Philly used destinations are only along US 30 from Atlantic City.  Oh yes, US 130 has it on a mileage sign in North Brunswick.  NJ don't like Philadelphia I get the impression, but also Maryland is another one with New York on I-95 ramp signs from Baltimore northward.

I-295 North is signed for "Philadelphia" past US 1: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2877121,-74.6910473,3a,75y,216.58h,78.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scJSUF_Za5E1MoStS7_87xA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I-76 is signed for Philadelphia: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8722231,-75.0878431,3a,75y,258.98h,81.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfwCQsnxhmNtrixbID3uxkA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1
Other crossings name the bridge instead

Yes there is definitely an NJDOT tendency to sign "in state" destinations.  That said, its not the only one like that. MdSHA signs Frederick, Hagerstown and Hancock on I-70, then finally "Breezewood" after that (litterally just before heading into PA), when you might expect "Pittsburgh" to show up at some point.  Most of the "New York" signs are on the segment of I-95 maintained by MdTA.

[jeffandnicole]

A lot of people have wondered about the lack of the NJ Turnpike signing 95 on the new signs. 

I haven't looked at the NJTA Meeting minutes for a while, and finally got a chance to do so.  Back in February, apparently there's a contract that was approved that will finish this work, along with other various improvements.  As shown in the https://www.njta.com/media/4335/minutes_bm_2-26-2019.pdf meeting minutes on PDF Page 16:

This contract will provide for the installation of sign panels as part of the final step in redesignating Interstate 95 through New Jersey including new signs at key locations on the New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway. This contract will also construct a new Z-turn at Turnpike Milepost 58.4 to improve emergency vehicle response at Turnpike Maintenance District No. 3, and the relocation of an existing Z-turn at Turnpike Milepost 120.6 to facilitate improved access between the SN95L and SN95X roadways. This contract will also install guide rail at select locations along the Turnpike. All work is expected to be completed by August 2019.

Will redesignating the Exits with I-95 mileage based numbers be the next part of final step in the process?

No.  Something like this is planned and communicated well in advance, as it affects motorists, businesses with directions, etc.  It wouldn't be hidden in a signing contract.

At face value, the wording gives the impression that the panels themselves will be replaced as opposed to retrofitting the existing panels with the I-95 shields (which were spaced for such in mind); which is all that's really needed for the majority of existing signs.

I guess the wording's a catch-all since the ramp signs from the Exit 7 toll plaza weren't spaced for additional I-95 shields.

In my mind it's kind of a weird contract, because modifying or replacing signage and adding/modifying Z Turns 60 miles apart from each other are vastly different types of work.  The whole contract is seemingly a catch-all for little bucket-list items.

[PHLBOS]

Hopefully it includes signs that have exotic destinations like "Philadelphia" on them, particularly at GSP exit 129.

I believe that the sign replacement/modifications in the NJTA meeting minutes that J&N posted are strictly between Exits 8A and 7 along with, if such wasn't already done the ramp signs beyond the US 130 toll plaza to the Turnpike Connector (I-95).

A recap, from past observations, regarding impacted signs (not including trailblazers or reassurance markers):

Exit 8A: Turnpike mainline pull-through signage need I-95 shields added

Exit 8: Turnpike mainline pull-through signage need I-95 shields added

Exit 7A: Turnpike mainline pull-through signage & ramp signage beyond toll booths need I-95 shields added

Exit 7: Turnpike mainline pull-through signage need I-95 shields added.  Ramps signage beyond toll booths need to be replaced (no additional space was provided for then-future shields).  Approach & Turnpike ramp signage along US 206 & Connector Road will need to be replaced as well if such wasn't already done (GSVs for this area are dated July 2018).

US 130 interchange (aka Exit 6A) w/Connector (I-95): If not already done, ramp signage beyond toll plaza need I-95 shields & related direction cardinals added.

[akotchi]

Regarding Exit 7 . . . Two signs were replaced by the NJDOT on U.S. 206 NB, south of the Turnpike overpass.  Nothing was done southbound, even though overheads at the U.S. 130/U.S. 206 SB split (that directed traffic to the Turnpike onto U.S. 206) were replaced to include I-95.  Nothing on Connector Road or Old York Road.

Exit 8A still has no I-95 signing along Route 32 WB approaching the ramp -- this area was not part of the NJDOT contract.

Rather strange to me . . .

[Mr. Matté]

Took 'em long enough but the interchange has finally appeared on aerial imagery in Google Earth (turn off 3D buildings/terrain to see):

[Roadsguy]

Finally! Interesting how they updated the non-3D imagery without the 3D imagery. It seemed like the most recent times they'd update the 3D, the non-3D would become just a flattened version of the 3D imagery.

This update also applies to the small section of outdated 3D imagery covering half of the I-95/Girard Avenue interchange. The southern half of the non-3D is now updated to show I-95 traffic on the new NB viaduct and the new NB ramps open, but the northern half is still the older flattened 3D from when I-95 traffic was still on the original viaduct.

[jeffandnicole]

When you look at that picture above, you can also see the nearby properties; many that they'll need to take in order to complete that interchange.  No doubt they stalled the remainder of the project in part due to that process.

[bzakharin]

Hopefully it includes signs that have exotic destinations like "Philadelphia" on them, particularly at GSP exit 129.

I believe that the sign replacement/modifications in the NJTA meeting minutes that J&N posted are strictly between Exits 8A and 7 along with, if such wasn't already done the ramp signs beyond the US 130 toll plaza to the Turnpike Connector (I-95).

Then why are they mentioning the Garden State Parkway?

This contract will provide for the installation of sign panels as part of the final step in redesignating Interstate 95 through New Jersey including new signs at key locations on the New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway

[PHLBOS]

Hopefully it includes signs that have exotic destinations like "Philadelphia" on them, particularly at GSP exit 129.

I believe that the sign replacement/modifications in the NJTA meeting minutes that J&N posted are strictly between Exits 8A and 7 along with, if such wasn't already done the ramp signs beyond the US 130 toll plaza to the Turnpike Connector (I-95).

Then why are they mentioning the Garden State Parkway?

This contract will provide for the installation of sign panels as part of the final step in redesignating Interstate 95 through New Jersey including new signs at key locations on the New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway

No idea since the signs at that interchange (Exit 11/129) already have I-95 shields on them.

The Turnpike interchange signs (current & prior generations) along & from the Parkway to the Turnpike have had I-95 shields on them for decades; mainly because the Parkway interchanges with the Turnpike north of Exit 10 (where I-95 was originally planned to exit the Turnpike via the current I-287).

The new (roughly 2-year-old) pull-through signs along the Turnpike mainline at Exit 11 have I-95 shields on them as well; so I don't know what NJTA is referring to when it references the Parkway in the listed minutes.  Mileage/distance signs to Exit 6 (I-95 South) perhaps?

[famartin]

Hopefully it includes signs that have exotic destinations like "Philadelphia" on them, particularly at GSP exit 129.

I believe that the sign replacement/modifications in the NJTA meeting minutes that J&N posted are strictly between Exits 8A and 7 along with, if such wasn't already done the ramp signs beyond the US 130 toll plaza to the Turnpike Connector (I-95).

Then why are they mentioning the Garden State Parkway?

This contract will provide for the installation of sign panels as part of the final step in redesignating Interstate 95 through New Jersey including new signs at key locations on the New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway

No idea since the signs at that interchange (Exit 11/129) already have I-95 shields on them.

The Turnpike interchange signs (current & prior generations) along & from the Parkway to the Turnpike have had I-95 shields on them for decades; mainly because the Parkway interchanges with the Turnpike north of Exit 10 (where I-95 was originally planned to exit the Turnpike via the current I-287).

The new (roughly 2-year-old) pull-through signs along the Turnpike mainline at Exit 11 have I-95 shields on them as well; so I don't know what NJTA is referring to when it references the Parkway in the listed minutes.  Mileage/distance signs to Exit 6 (I-95 South) perhaps?

That's why the question wondered if they might swap out Trenton for Philadelphia on those signs.

[roadman65]

Hopefully it includes signs that have exotic destinations like "Philadelphia" on them, particularly at GSP exit 129.

I believe that the sign replacement/modifications in the NJTA meeting minutes that J&N posted are strictly between Exits 8A and 7 along with, if such wasn't already done the ramp signs beyond the US 130 toll plaza to the Turnpike Connector (I-95).

Then why are they mentioning the Garden State Parkway?

This contract will provide for the installation of sign panels as part of the final step in redesignating Interstate 95 through New Jersey including new signs at key locations on the New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway

No idea since the signs at that interchange (Exit 11/129) already have I-95 shields on them.

The Turnpike interchange signs (current & prior generations) along & from the Parkway to the Turnpike have had I-95 shields on them for decades; mainly because the Parkway interchanges with the Turnpike north of Exit 10 (where I-95 was originally planned to exit the Turnpike via the current I-287).

The new (roughly 2-year-old) pull-through signs along the Turnpike mainline at Exit 11 have I-95 shields on them as well; so I don't know what NJTA is referring to when it references the Parkway in the listed minutes.  Mileage/distance signs to Exit 6 (I-95 South) perhaps?

That’s why the question wondered if they might swap out Trenton for Philadelphia on those signs.

They should it would be more prominent.

[famartin]

Hopefully it includes signs that have exotic destinations like "Philadelphia" on them, particularly at GSP exit 129.

I believe that the sign replacement/modifications in the NJTA meeting minutes that J&N posted are strictly between Exits 8A and 7 along with, if such wasn't already done the ramp signs beyond the US 130 toll plaza to the Turnpike Connector (I-95).

Then why are they mentioning the Garden State Parkway?

This contract will provide for the installation of sign panels as part of the final step in redesignating Interstate 95 through New Jersey including new signs at key locations on the New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway

No idea since the signs at that interchange (Exit 11/129) already have I-95 shields on them.

The Turnpike interchange signs (current & prior generations) along & from the Parkway to the Turnpike have had I-95 shields on them for decades; mainly because the Parkway interchanges with the Turnpike north of Exit 10 (where I-95 was originally planned to exit the Turnpike via the current I-287).

The new (roughly 2-year-old) pull-through signs along the Turnpike mainline at Exit 11 have I-95 shields on them as well; so I don't know what NJTA is referring to when it references the Parkway in the listed minutes.  Mileage/distance signs to Exit 6 (I-95 South) perhaps?

That's why the question wondered if they might swap out Trenton for Philadelphia on those signs.

They should it would be more prominent.

We've had this debate before, perhaps it was even in this thread, but yes, I concur.

[roadman65]

Yes Philbos always brought up the fact Philadelphia is ignored a lot.

I think it has to do with Philadelphia being off the beaten path as even though I-95 always directly served it, the NJ Turnpike was the straight and most traveled route.  Just like we also had the debate before of numbering the whole turnpike as I-95 and giving the Delaware Expressway another number. 

Philly is in the top ten US cities population wise and is treated like St. Petersburg in Florida tucked away in the corner (and it is being on a peninsula) and most through roads head through Tampa to steal the spotlight away.  Only US 19 has St. Pete as a control city from as far away as Monticello near the GA Border only cause US 19 is the only US route bound for Tampa Bay that does not go to Tampa.  Though FDOT recently has been adding St. Petersburg to I-75 guides in recent signing projects to show both Tampa Bay Cities on the freeway ramps and pull throughs.

As far as on US 1 in Lawrence, I totally forgot that one as for years the state of PA was the control city for I-95 especially NB.  I do not know much about the ACE ramps as I never went too much to South Jersey living in Union and Middlesex Counties.  I actually traveled to Wildwood first time in 1994 four years after I left New Jersey and still yet need to clinch the ACE from the Airport to its west end, US 30 from Pomona to US 130, US 322 from NJ 50 to NJ 45, all of NJ 42 and parts of US 9 in Cape May County.  Oh yes and US 206 from its southern terminus to NJ 68 plus parts of NJ 47, NJ 45, all of NJ 77 and NJ 72 (and never been on Long Beach Island either). 

[Beltway]

Yes Philbos always brought up the fact Philadelphia is ignored a lot.
I think it has to do with Philadelphia being off the beaten path as even though I-95 always directly served it, the NJ Turnpike was the straight and most traveled route.  Just like we also had the debate before of numbering the whole turnpike as I-95 and giving the Delaware Expressway another number. 

Not only that but in conjunction with the Delaware Memorial Bridge the NJ Turnpike bypasses Pennsylvania entirely.

[roadman65]

Yes Pennsylvania wanted to be in it, and really it should being Philly is a major city in the Northeast.

It was a shame that the Somerset Freeway got cancelled that through all of it off.

[PHLBOS]

Yes Philbos always brought up the fact Philadelphia is ignored a lot.

To my knowledge, while such has been brought up may times before; I wasn't the one who's repeatedly mentioned it.  And its PHLBOS BTW no I; as in the air-route.

As far as the I-95/Turnpike signage at/along the Parkway is concerned: the fairly-new/current stand-alone signs for I-95/NJ Turnpike southbound that list Trenton aren't wide enough to have Philadelphia panel placed on them.  If such a retrofit was indeed the plan; why weren't those panels designed to accommodate the wider Philadelphia control city legend from the get-go?

Trenton, while smaller in size than Philadelphia, is NJ's capital city and its general region is approached (from the north) prior to approaching Philadelphia.  Signing I-95/NJ Turnpike southbound for Trenton, even though the actual highway(s) doesn't enter it, down to Exit 8 makes logical sense.  However, one option would be to list both Trenton & Philadelphia together on the same southbound sign panels (Camden & Philadelphia for Exit 7A & 7 signage).  It's not like such hasn't been done before; see southbound NJ Turnpike signage at Exit 6 for a recent example.  Such IMHO would be the best way to address Philly being ignored on Turnpike signage... if such is indeed an issue.

[famartin]

Yes Philbos always brought up the fact Philadelphia is ignored a lot.

To my knowledge, while such has been brought up may times before; I wasn't the one who's repeatedly mentioned it.  And its PHLBOS BTW no I; as in the air-route.

As far as the I-95/Turnpike signage at/along the Parkway is concerned: the fairly-new/current stand-alone signs for I-95/NJ Turnpike southbound that list Trenton aren't wide enough to have Philadelphia panel placed on them.  If such a retrofit was indeed the plan; why weren't those panels designed to accommodate the wider Philadelphia control city legend from the get-go?

Trenton, while smaller in size than Philadelphia, is NJ's capital city and its general region is approached (from the north) prior to approaching Philadelphia.  Signing I-95/NJ Turnpike southbound for Trenton, even though the actual highway(s) doesn't enter it, down to Exit 8 makes logical sense.  However, one option would be to list both Trenton & Philadelphia together on the same southbound sign panels (Camden & Philadelphia for Exit 7A & 7 signage).  It's not like such hasn't been done before; see southbound NJ Turnpike signage at Exit 6 for a recent example.  Such IMHO would be the best way to address Philly being ignored on Turnpike signage... if such is indeed an issue.

I would totally agree with that signage, and its not like NJTA is afraid of using larger signs... they have 3 line signs on northbound I-95 which say George Washington Bridge. If they are willing to splurge on that much signage just for the bridge, then I think they can do ones with "Trenton/Philadelphia" and "Camden/Philadelphia" as appropriate.

[jeffandnicole]

Yes Philbos always brought up the fact Philadelphia is ignored a lot.

To my knowledge, while such has been brought up may times before; I wasn't the one who's repeatedly mentioned it.  And its PHLBOS BTW no I; as in the air-route.

As far as the I-95/Turnpike signage at/along the Parkway is concerned: the fairly-new/current stand-alone signs for I-95/NJ Turnpike southbound that list Trenton aren't wide enough to have Philadelphia panel placed on them.  If such a retrofit was indeed the plan; why weren't those panels designed to accommodate the wider Philadelphia control city legend from the get-go?

Trenton, while smaller in size than Philadelphia, is NJ's capital city and its general region is approached (from the north) prior to approaching Philadelphia.  Signing I-95/NJ Turnpike southbound for Trenton, even though the actual highway(s) doesn't enter it, down to Exit 8 makes logical sense.  However, one option would be to list both Trenton & Philadelphia together on the same southbound sign panels (Camden & Philadelphia for Exit 7A & 7 signage).  It's not like such hasn't been done before; see southbound NJ Turnpike signage at Exit 6 for a recent example.  Such IMHO would be the best way to address Philly being ignored on Turnpike signage... if such is indeed an issue.

I would totally agree with that signage, and its not like NJTA is afraid of using larger signs... they have 3 line signs on northbound I-95 which say George Washington Bridge. If they are willing to splurge on that much signage just for the bridge, then I think they can do ones with "Trenton/Philadelphia" and "Camden/Philadelphia" as appropriate.

It's not really a cost thing.  After all, we should just name cities with 3 or 4 letters if that was the case.  Use NYC instead of New York City. Or as in the picture above, Newark Airport could've been cheaper just white on green and no one would think anything of it.  It's what the agency feels is the best control city/destination for that particular location.   And in some cases, the Turnpike may have thought that its existing Control City destinations would be fine, but after further reflection may have decided to amend the signage.  Yeah, it'll cost a few million to do that, but that also shows it's truly not solely a decision made based upon cost.  The Turnpike would save a lot of money if they quit using 25 foot lines, or stopped sending patrols out on a daily basis to pick up trash.  Signage costs are quit minimal in the long run.

[02 Park Ave]

Trenton and Baltimore would be the most proper control cities to be used at the GSP interchange.  Trenton is the state capital and the next large city heading southwards.  Baltimore would be eventually accessed whether one chooses to take the Turnpike or I-95 so it is appropriate to both roads.

Philadelphia needs only to be listed, as it is, at Exit 6.  I-95 is the route to follow there.

Wilmington should only be listed at Exit 2.  The Turnpike does not go to Wilmington and most intercity travelers are heading to Baltimore and further south and not to Wilmington.  Wilmington should not be used as a control city on the Turnpike.

[odditude]

The Turnpike does not go to Wilmington and most intercity travelers are heading to Baltimore and further south and not to Wilmington.  Wilmington should not be used as a control city on the Turnpike.

the same arguments could be made against Trenton (and i would not support those arguments in that case, either).

[ipeters61]

The Turnpike does not go to Wilmington and most intercity travelers are heading to Baltimore and further south and not to Wilmington.  Wilmington should not be used as a control city on the Turnpike.

the same arguments could be made against Trenton (and i would not support those arguments in that case, either).

One could further make the argument that the control cities of I-76 West (from Philadelphia) and I-476 North (from Chester) should not be Valley Forge and Plymouth Meeting, respectively.  Wilmington, while not "officially" on the Turnpike, is a meaningful reference point for the next possible destination along the route.

If I'm heading from NYC down the Turnpike towards the Delaware Memorial Bridge, where could I be headed?  I could be going to Baltimore/Washington (via I-95), to the Delaware Beaches/Ocean City MD (via DE-1), Lancaster (via DE-141 and DE-41), or towards Virginia Beach (via DE-1/US-13).  I specifically would like to point out that the Delaware Beaches are actually a growing area with people coming from New York and New Jersey.

All of these areas are accessible from "Wilmington" (again not technically Wilmington, but close enough to it) to justify it, in my opinion, as a destination.

[jp the roadgeek]

I remember having this discussion before.  The only thing that drives me crazy is using Philadelphia as a control city northbound at Exit 6.  You're already past the city at that point, and would have taken Exit 2 for the airport/southern suburbs, Exit 3 for Center City, or Exit 4 for Northeast Philly. SB Exit 6 should read: I-95 SOUTH TO I-276 WEST [PATP Logo] Philadelphia/Harrisburg, while NB controls should be Bristol or Valley Forge, and Harrisburg.  Listing Philly NB is almost as ridiculous as MassDOT using NYC as a control at Exit 9 Eastbound on the Mass Pike.

On the Turnpike itself, I would use Trenton/Philadelphia from Exit 14 south to Exit 7A, Philadelphia/Wilmington from 7A to 7, Camden/Wilmington from Exit 7-3, and Wilmington/Baltimore down to the bridge.  From Exit 3 south, I would use the logo for the Delaware Memorial Bridge, so signage would say: NJTP SOUTH TO [DEL MEM BRIDGE symbol]/Wilmington/Baltimore. Most Lancaster bound traffic would have exited at Exit 6 and taken the PATP either to Valley Forge (and US 202 to US 30), or to Denver and headed south on US 222.  Northbound from Exit 14, I would use Fort Lee as a control with I-95 TO GWB.

An aside as far as Virginia Beach: I would support DelDOT using Dover/Norfolk as controls for DE 1 South on I-95 Southbound only.