I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange

[AMLNet49]

Apple Maps is now showing the flyovers–with 95 shields on them.

(Apple Maps)

Interesting. Does Apple Maps usually show shields on ramps carrying designations?

Bing may be taking their sweet old time in getting everything done with updating it, but at least they properly show the flyovers as freeway mainline.

Does this qualify for "freeway mainline"?  I thought the part of I-95 between the new interchange and the New Jersey line were technically part of the Pennsylvania Turnpike still.

[276W] is also signed as a left exit from I-95, using I-95's mileage, which is unprecedented for the Turnpike.

It may be unprecedented for the turnpike but it should be the norm everywhere and not just elsewhere on the turnpike it should be universal for TOTSOs to be labeled as mainline even with a loop ramp (See US6&3 interchange in cape cod)

[Roadsguy]

Apple Maps is now showing the flyovers–with 95 shields on them.

(Apple Maps)

Interesting. Does Apple Maps usually show shields on ramps carrying designations?

Bing may be taking their sweet old time in getting everything done with updating it, but at least they properly show the flyovers as freeway mainline.

Does this qualify for "freeway mainline"?  I thought the part of I-95 between the new interchange and the New Jersey line were technically part of the Pennsylvania Turnpike still.

[276W] is also signed as a left exit from I-95, using I-95's mileage, which is unprecedented for the Turnpike.

It may be unprecedented for the turnpike but it should be the norm everywhere and not just elsewhere on the turnpike it should be universal for TOTSOs to be labeled as mainline even with a loop ramp (See US6&3 interchange in cape cod)

Well the Turnpike has had the convenience of never really needing its exit numbers to change. (At least not since I-76 was rerouted out of Pittsburgh and into Ohio, replacing I-80S.) Even at Valley Forge, it's not too much of a stretch to have I-276 continue the Turnpike's mileage and exit numbering, even if the Schuylkill Expressway does the same.

[jeffandnicole]

Apple Maps is now showing the flyovers–with 95 shields on them.

(Apple Maps)

Interesting. Does Apple Maps usually show shields on ramps carrying designations?

Bing may be taking their sweet old time in getting everything done with updating it, but at least they properly show the flyovers as freeway mainline.

Does this qualify for "freeway mainline"?  I thought the part of I-95 between the new interchange and the New Jersey line were technically part of the Pennsylvania Turnpike still.

[276W] is also signed as a left exit from I-95, using I-95's mileage, which is unprecedented for the Turnpike.

It may be unprecedented for the turnpike but it should be the norm everywhere and not just elsewhere on the turnpike it should be universal for TOTSOs to be labeled as mainline even with a loop ramp (See US6&3 interchange in cape cod)

Well the Turnpike has had the convenience of never really needing its exit numbers to change. (At least not since I-76 was rerouted out of Pittsburgh and into Ohio, replacing I-80S.) Even at Valley Forge, it's not too much of a stretch to have I-276 continue the Turnpike's mileage and exit numbering, even if the Schuylkill Expressway does the same.

Huh? The PA Turnpike remembered all their exits years ago. They were sequential.

[Roadsguy]

Apple Maps is now showing the flyovers–with 95 shields on them.

(Apple Maps)

Interesting. Does Apple Maps usually show shields on ramps carrying designations?

Bing may be taking their sweet old time in getting everything done with updating it, but at least they properly show the flyovers as freeway mainline.

Does this qualify for "freeway mainline"?  I thought the part of I-95 between the new interchange and the New Jersey line were technically part of the Pennsylvania Turnpike still.

[276W] is also signed as a left exit from I-95, using I-95's mileage, which is unprecedented for the Turnpike.

It may be unprecedented for the turnpike but it should be the norm everywhere and not just elsewhere on the turnpike it should be universal for TOTSOs to be labeled as mainline even with a loop ramp (See US6&3 interchange in cape cod)

Well the Turnpike has had the convenience of never really needing its exit numbers to change. (At least not since I-76 was rerouted out of Pittsburgh and into Ohio, replacing I-80S.) Even at Valley Forge, it's not too much of a stretch to have I-276 continue the Turnpike's mileage and exit numbering, even if the Schuylkill Expressway does the same.

Huh? The PA Turnpike remembered all their exits years ago. They were sequential.

In hindsight that was worded poorly, but I meant that the exit numbers of the mainline didn't need to reset at any interchange to match a designation. They still didn't, though, even when I-76 only entered it at the Pittsburgh interchange, though that's more because of the ticket system.

[Roadwarriors79]

The Youtube user "roadwaywiz" drove around the various roads in PA/NJ affected by the sign changes due to the new I-95 rerouting. Video link is below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfHxWQlxNrc

[Roadsguy]

The Youtube user "roadwaywiz" drove around the various roads in PA/NJ affected by the sign changes due to the new I-95 rerouting. Video link is below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfHxWQlxNrc

I notice I-95 NB drops to two lanes through the PA 413 interchange, with the third lane beginning on the right just before the ramp merge. This means that I-95 NB does not have two continuous lanes as southbound does. This seems strange. I was expecting them to have a fourth lane form on the left right before the PA 413 split, with the new left lane becoming the left lane of I-295. (The northbound carriageway through exit 39 still had some cattlechutes when I was last there. Seems they're still not done at the flyover split.

[Alps]

The Youtube user "roadwaywiz" drove around the various roads in PA/NJ affected by the sign changes due to the new I-95 rerouting. Video link is below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfHxWQlxNrc

I notice I-95 NB drops to two lanes through the PA 413 interchange, with the third lane beginning on the right just before the ramp merge. This means that I-95 NB does not have two continuous lanes as southbound does. This seems strange. I was expecting them to have a fourth lane form on the left right before the PA 413 split, with the new left lane becoming the left lane of I-295. (The northbound carriageway through exit 39 still had some cattlechutes when I was last there. Seems they're still not done at the flyover split.

I was expecting them to build a continuous 3rd lane but that is clearly not the case based on guiderail alignment. So yeah, puzzlement.

Roadwarriors79, were you one of today's Youtube commenters?

[Roadwarriors79]

@Alps no, I wasn't one of the commenters. I didn't see it live, only found this video a couple hours ago.

[PHLBOS]

Without viewing roadwaywiz's entire 2+ hour video to see/confirm such; having made another trip to New England this past weekend (Oct. 27-28), there has been no additional I-95 shields placed along the NJ Turnpike between Exits 8A and the Delaware River Bridge than what's already there/reported.

[jeffandnicole]

Without viewing roadwaywiz's entire 2+ hour video to see/confirm such; having made another trip to New England this past weekend (Oct. 27-28), there has been no additional I-95 shields placed along the NJ Turnpike between Exits 8A and the Delaware River Bridge than what's already there/reported.

I was on there Fri night, from Exit 8 to Exit 4.  And confirmed the supplemental 'Philadelphia' BGS on the Exit 4 sign was removed as well.

[jeffandnicole]

Also, just spot gauging, but early indications are the I-95 routing via Exit 6 isn't going to keep much traffic from continuing south towards the Delaware Memorial Bridge.

This entire project was designed back in the early 2000's, well before GPSs became a mainstay in most people's vehicles and on their phones.  At that time, it was probably guessed that a lot of traffic would follow I-95's routing.  Today, GPSs will encourage people to stay on the NJ Turnpike.  The holdouts that will follow I-95 along with those needing to get to Philly, will go via 95, but probably not as many as envisioned.

Thanksgiving weekend will be the true test.  We will see how the NJ Turnpike performs from Exit 6 to Exit 1.  If Columbus Day weekend was any indication, it's going to be congested.  That said, as we've noted, a lot of GPS and mapping companies hadn't updated I-95's routing on the PA Turnpike, so it may have kept many on the Turnpike anyway. 

But, I'm guessing that the NJ Turnpike may have to reconsider the timeline they may have as to widening the NJ Turnpike south of Exit 6.  And based on visual observations, 3 lanes each way between 1 & 4 may not be enough.  They may seriously need to consider 4 lanes between Interchange 4 & 6 or 3 & 6, along with 3 lanes from the Del. Mem. Bridge to Interchanges 3 or 4.

Could an electronic-only toll (and pay-by-plate) interchange between the Turnpike and 42 be a part of this?  One could only hope.

[bzakharin]

Since GPSes these days incorporate live traffic info, one would assume that once the map data is fully updated, the new routing will be suggested by the GPS once the Turnpike is congested enough to not be the fastest route

[Alps]

Just from the PA side and personal observation, more than half the traffic on 95 stayed on 95.

[jeffandnicole]

Since GPSes these days incorporate live traffic info, one would assume that once the map data is fully updated, the new routing will be suggested by the GPS once the Turnpike is congested enough to not be the fastest route

And I'm trying to think when that will take place.  If it's a busy holiday weekend, 95 in PA is often backed up, but there's going to be the option of taking 295 in NJ still.  I guess it would take a major accident, or involve delays on the Turnpike, delays on the Delaware Memorial Bridge, and delays on 295 in Delaware to force GPSs to say 95 in PA is the quickest route.

[famartin]

Just from the PA side and personal observation, more than half the traffic on 95 stayed on 95.

Just to clarify, you mean they followed the new ramps to NJ? 

That's definitely a change from a month ago, but a good sign that they are getting properly used.

[Alps]

Just from the PA side and personal observation, more than half the traffic on 95 stayed on 95.

Just to clarify, you mean they followed the new ramps to NJ? 

That's definitely a change from a month ago, but a good sign that they are getting properly used.

Yeah, at least northbound, more traffic took 95 than 295, and of course 13 is not heavily used. But that's anecdotal, and good data is starting to come in already. (Not that I would abuse my position by requesting it without a work-related reason.)

[Roadsguy]

Just from the PA side and personal observation, more than half the traffic on 95 stayed on 95.

Just to clarify, you mean they followed the new ramps to NJ? 

That's definitely a change from a month ago, but a good sign that they are getting properly used.

Yeah, at least northbound, more traffic took 95 than 295, and of course 13 is not heavily used. But that's anecdotal, and good data is starting to come in already. (Not that I would abuse my position by requesting it without a work-related reason.)

So does 295 now have much less traffic than it did before, or does 95 south of the interchange now have much more traffic? In 2016 at least, I-95 had about 70k AADT south of 413 and 60k north of it.

[Alps]

Just from the PA side and personal observation, more than half the traffic on 95 stayed on 95.

Just to clarify, you mean they followed the new ramps to NJ? 

That's definitely a change from a month ago, but a good sign that they are getting properly used.

Yeah, at least northbound, more traffic took 95 than 295, and of course 13 is not heavily used. But that's anecdotal, and good data is starting to come in already. (Not that I would abuse my position by requesting it without a work-related reason.)

So does 295 now have much less traffic than it did before, or does 95 south of the interchange now have much more traffic? In 2016 at least, I-95 had about 70k AADT south of 413 and 60k north of it.

"Anecdotal"...
295 seems lighter in traffic. I don't think you can shovel that many more people on I-95 during a weekday, but you may get more on a weekend. I think the biggest change will be lightening the NJ Turnpike from Interchanges 3-6, but that remains to be seen. We'll need to look at the actual numbers first.

[jeffandnicole]

Just from the PA side and personal observation, more than half the traffic on 95 stayed on 95.

Just to clarify, you mean they followed the new ramps to NJ? 

That's definitely a change from a month ago, but a good sign that they are getting properly used.

Yeah, at least northbound, more traffic took 95 than 295, and of course 13 is not heavily used. But that's anecdotal, and good data is starting to come in already. (Not that I would abuse my position by requesting it without a work-related reason.)

So does 295 now have much less traffic than it did before, or does 95 south of the interchange now have much more traffic? In 2016 at least, I-95 had about 70k AADT south of 413 and 60k north of it.

"Anecdotal"...
295 seems lighter in traffic. I don't think you can shovel that many more people on I-95 during a weekday, but you may get more on a weekend. I think the biggest change will be lightening the NJ Turnpike from Interchanges 3-6, but that remains to be seen. We'll need to look at the actual numbers first.

It would be interesting to see if traffic volumes going North are heavier than traffic going South, or if it's about equal.

Also, further down the line...are non-EZ Pass motorists actually paying the Toll-by-plate toll invoices they receive from the PTC.

[ipeters61]

Also, further down the line...are non-EZ Pass motorists actually paying the Toll-by-plate toll invoices they receive from the PTC.

Does non-payment make it more difficult for you to renew your registration or something like that?  I know that's supposed to be the case with red light camera violations (because they're mailed) in Delaware.

Nevermind, looked it up, it seems like they'll suspend the registration of a PA motorist, but what about out of state cars?  https://www.paturnpike.com/toll/violation_enforcement_registration_suspension.aspx

[bzakharin]

Since GPSes these days incorporate live traffic info, one would assume that once the map data is fully updated, the new routing will be suggested by the GPS once the Turnpike is congested enough to not be the fastest route

And I'm trying to think when that will take place.  If it's a busy holiday weekend, 95 in PA is often backed up, but there's going to be the option of taking 295 in NJ still.  I guess it would take a major accident, or involve delays on the Turnpike, delays on the Delaware Memorial Bridge, and delays on 295 in Delaware to force GPSs to say 95 in PA is the quickest route.

I am responding directly to your post above:

This entire project was designed back in the early 2000's, well before GPSs became a mainstay in most people's vehicles and on their phones.  At that time, it was probably guessed that a lot of traffic would follow I-95's routing.  Today, GPSs will encourage people to stay on the NJ Turnpike.  The holdouts that will follow I-95 along with those needing to get to Philly, will go via 95, but probably not as many as envisioned.

So ... the NJTA was relying on people leaving the Turnpike early even though it's not a better option in terms of speed, and would cost them toll revenue? You'd think they'd be the ones to drag their feet, not the PTC, which only stands to gain revenue from the new interchange (yes, I get that the interchange is in PA and NJTA wasn't directly involved in building it, but I'm sure there is some sort of obstruction that could have gone on).

[ipeters61]

This entire project was designed back in the early 2000's, well before GPSs became a mainstay in most people's vehicles and on their phones.  At that time, it was probably guessed that a lot of traffic would follow I-95's routing.  Today, GPSs will encourage people to stay on the NJ Turnpike.  The holdouts that will follow I-95 along with those needing to get to Philly, will go via 95, but probably not as many as envisioned.

So ... the NJTA was relying on people leaving the Turnpike early even though it's not a better option in terms of speed, and would cost them toll revenue? You'd think they'd be the ones to drag their feet, not the PTC, which only stands to gain revenue from the new interchange (yes, I get that the interchange is in PA and NJTA wasn't directly involved in building it, but I'm sure there is some sort of obstruction that could have gone on).

I would imagine that the PTC and NJTA were aware of the upcoming growth of GPS even back in the early 2000s, since the technology existed but was just not commonplace yet.

[Roadsguy]

PennDOT finally indicates the flyovers as distinct segments of SR 0095 in their TIRe map. Does anyone know if they've actually posted LRS markers?

Seems the I-95 portion of the Turnpike is still SR 7276. This they may not change...

[ixnay]

PennDOT finally indicates the flyovers as distinct segments of SR 0095 in their TIRe map.

PennDOT went shopping at Acronyms R Us, obviously...

ixnay

[jeffandnicole]

This entire project was designed back in the early 2000's, well before GPSs became a mainstay in most people's vehicles and on their phones.  At that time, it was probably guessed that a lot of traffic would follow I-95's routing.  Today, GPSs will encourage people to stay on the NJ Turnpike.  The holdouts that will follow I-95 along with those needing to get to Philly, will go via 95, but probably not as many as envisioned.

So ... the NJTA was relying on people leaving the Turnpike early even though it's not a better option in terms of speed, and would cost them toll revenue? You'd think they'd be the ones to drag their feet, not the PTC, which only stands to gain revenue from the new interchange (yes, I get that the interchange is in PA and NJTA wasn't directly involved in building it, but I'm sure there is some sort of obstruction that could have gone on).

I would imagine that the PTC and NJTA were aware of the upcoming growth of GPS even back in the early 2000s, since the technology existed but was just not commonplace yet.

I don't know if that's really possible.  Take something today that is in its infancy, and predict how it would be used 15 years from now.  We argue that on these forums about self-driving cars and such, and it's a huge debate.  TVs 10 years ago predicted 3D technology would be the wave of the future, which self-combusted.

15 years ago, smart phones didn't really exist.  Yeah, look up the history and there was a 'smart phone' at that time, but nothing like what we had today.  The iPhone wasn't even released until 2007, when the smartphone era took off.  GPSs weren't taking off until the later 2000s as well.

When I worked the NJ Turnpike from 2001 - 2004 collecting tolls, I would have people show me MapQuest printouts that detailed driving directions showing me how they got on the Turnpike behind a service plaza and that's how they didn't get a toll ticket. Nearly every printout detailed them to cross the Delaware Memorial Bridge into Delaware, then to take Exit 5 onto I-95 South.  As you may know, Exit 5 is for Rt. 141, not I-95 South.  And driving, I would see people quite often pull to the left, then back out onto the real lanes for I-95 South.  The technology honestly sucked at that time compared to what can be done today.  Sure, it was much, much better than looking at a paper map...except when it took you the wrong way. 

So I don't think there could be any real vision of GPSs being commonplace in cars at that time, when nearly nobody had GPSs.  After all, if you can predict with accuracy this forum will be around in 15 years, or used in a different way in 15 years, it would be nearly impossible to predict such.