Roads that states should maintain

[jbnv]

In your opinion, what are good reasons for a state to maintain a road that "goes nowhere"? As I worked on my reform of Louisiana's highway system, I am considering that the state should maintain a road if it is used heavily to access a state or national asset. Examples include:

• State universities. I'm keeping the business portion of LA 6 in Natchitoches because it goes right by Northwestern State University. I'm considering keeping LA 30 near LSU even though the state intends to revert it. I'm also going to look at state routes that provide direct access to the other universities.


• Access to state prisons. I'm keeping LA 66 because it goes to Louisiana State Penitentiary. I figure that the parish and local residents wouldn't be too happy if the state didn't maintain the road it uses to transport its miscreants.


• Military installations. There are a few state routes that provide direct access to Fort Polk and Barksdale AFB.


• National parks and preserves.
  

Can you think of other good reasons for a state to maintain a short road?

[agentsteel53]

interestingly, there isn't any particular mandate in place for states to maintain the roads to their government offices; even the symbolically important ones. 

in at least one case, the state capitol is on a former state-maintained highway.  (Sacramento.)  I'll bet this is common elsewhere too, but right now I am far too lazy to do the research.

[Zeffy]

NJ 31 in Trenton: It's in the capital city dammit, and it looks like crap.
US 206 in Trenton, north of Warren Street / NJ 31 intersection: Same as above.

[jbnv]

Well, which gets more traffic: Capitol Access Road, or Nicholson Dr. leading into LSU (especially before/after a home football game)? 

[hotdogPi]

Well, which gets more traffic: Capitol Access Road, or Nicholson Dr. leading into LSU (especially before/after a home football game)? 

So you're trying to bias the results?

[jbnv]

Well, which gets more traffic: Capitol Access Road, or Nicholson Dr. leading into LSU (especially before/after a home football game)? 

So you're trying to bias the results?

I meant the football part in jest, but I do have a point: Which of these two situations places more of a burden on the infrastructure? I would venture that for most states, the roads to the flagship university get heavier traffic than the roads to the state capitol. Factor in major athletic events and the bias tips even further. Thus I make a case for putting major roads to a state university under state maintenance, whereas I do not make that case for the state capitol.

[Pete from Boston]

Trenton: It's the capital city dammit, and it looks like crap.

FTFY

[Urban Prairie Schooner]

Well, which gets more traffic: Capitol Access Road, or Nicholson Dr. leading into LSU (especially before/after a home football game)? 

One consideration is whether you want truck traffic running through campus. Since I would think that at a minimum, a state route should always be a truck route with certain rare exceptions, then retaining LA 30 through LSU means allowing semis to traverse Nicholson Drive and pass through campus. Not a good idea in a major pedestrian zone. (LSU designates priority to pedestrians and non-motorized transport within its central campus area.) I believe that is one of the main reasons as to why DOTD wants to essentially reroute LA 30 via Essen/Staring. (The other reason is that Nicholson is planned to be eventually transformed into an "urban boulevard" between downtown and LSU.)

On the other hand, it is certainly possible for the state highway department to maintain the streets within a campus or other public facility. DOTD already does this from what I understand, though they do not publicly number these routes (though they might use an internal inventory number). Other states do number (and sign) their "facility access" routes. Utah and Virginia come to mind. I am on the fence as to whether these routes need numbers, insofar as numbers are used for navigation. Maybe give them numbers but keep them unsigned.

[Zeffy]

Trenton: It's the capital city dammit, and it looks like crap.

FTFY

That's not very nice. Yes, it's run-down, but there are parts of the city that are beautiful. In the case of it's roads: not so much. NJ 29 isn't in bad shape.

[Pete from Boston]

Trenton: It's the capital city dammit, and it looks like crap.

FTFY

That's not very nice. Yes, it's run-down, but there are parts of the city that are beautiful. In the case of it's roads: not so much. NJ 29 isn't in bad shape.

In fairness, I haven't been there in years, but Trenton is one of those places where it seemed like disinvestment might have kept some neighborhoods with beautiful old houses from being redeveloped.

[mcdonaat]

I would say that, in reality, the state should keep roads that it uses for political purposes. LA 66 is a heavily used route, especially leading up to Angola. Nicholson Drive leads right into LSU's athletic facilities. However, at the same time, if the city of Baton Rouge wants to widen the road, and the university would like to use athletic funds to install pedestrian overpasses, it would happen much quicker than using the state's contracts and bidding requirements.

However, I live in a rural parish, where we have one of the federal prisons. It's a parish road leading up to the prison, but the federal government does pay to upgrade the road (moved the entire parish road for the prison), and has paid to help with maintenance. It's also one of the few parish roads I know of with a 55 MPH speed limit.

For all it's worth, David Wade Correctional Center is on a national forest road. Winn Correctional Center is on a parish road. Pollock USP is on a parish road. Oakdale USP is on a parish road. Most state prisons, with the exception of Angola, are on locally maintained roads. The DOTD does need to maintain roads it will drive the heavy equipment on, which means LA 1208-2 is staying, LA 1248 is staying, and LA 3045 is staying. Maintenance units will always be on a state highway, and the highway department buildings will always have their own state routes running next to them. Unsigned would be better, but they still exist, and need to stay.

Finally, the Louisiana State Capitol is not on a state highway - all city roads. LA 3045 ends at the bridge right after the LaDOTD HQ, and runs only from that bridge to I-110. Also, Southern University doesn't have a state road - LA 408 ends at the junction with US 61.

[jbnv]

However, at the same time, if the city of Baton Rouge wants to widen the road, and the university would like to use athletic funds to install pedestrian overpasses, it would happen much quicker than using the state's contracts and bidding requirements.

That is a good point. I expect Lafayette to accept the state's proposal to release LA 339 and LA 89 as both are two-lane roads that sorely need to be widened.

For all it's worth, David Wade Correctional Center is on a national forest road. Winn Correctional Center is on a parish road. Pollock USP is on a parish road. Oakdale USP is on a parish road. Most state prisons, with the exception of Angola, are on locally maintained roads.

Good observation. I suspect the parishes are well-paid by the state for the prisons.

The DOTD does need to maintain roads it will drive the heavy equipment on, which means LA 1208-2 is staying, LA 1248 is staying, and LA 3045 is staying. Maintenance units will always be on a state highway, and the highway department buildings will always have their own state routes running next to them.

Another good point. Where are 1248 and 1208-2?

[mcdonaat]

LA 1248 is in Chase. LA 1208-2 is in Alexandria, by the DOTD district HQ

Nexus 7

[wxfree]

TxDOT maintains TX 165, which is the road through the Texas State Cemetery.  As a side note, it has a gate and the web site says the cemetery is open from 8 to 5; this is the only state highway I know of with regular closing hours.

https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=30.265702,-97.72429&spn=0.003132,0.005681&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=30.265701,-97.725315&panoid=ctdxdZlZWjf8loJiL8GJng&cbp=12,301.01,,0,0

We could also include Spur 97, which is a short freeway connecting TX 183 with International Parkway, the road through DFW Airport.

When I read the question, I thought of the undesignated roads in Texas state parks.  The roads in state parks are maintained by TxDOT.  Some are undesignated, with lower-quality pavement or sometimes gravel surfaces, while some are designated highways, Park Roads.

[KEVIN_224]

Connecticut doesn't have county routes, as far as I know. We do have many "secret" routes which are state maintained. Example: Willow Brook Connector in Berlin. It's a little over a mile, heading west from CT 9's Exit 24 to the junction of CT 71A and CT 372, close to the New Britain city line. It's secret state route 571. Oddly enough, 372 happens to be the highest numbered state route we have.

[dgolub]

Connecticut doesn't have county routes, as far as I know. We do have many "secret" routes which are state maintained. Example: Willow Brook Connector in Berlin. It's a little over a mile, heading west from CT 9's Exit 24 to the junction of CT 71A and CT 372, close to the New Britain city line. It's secret state route 571. Oddly enough, 372 happens to be the highest numbered state route we have.

You're correct.  Connecticut doesn't have county routes because it doesn't have county governments.  Everything not maintained by the state is maintained by the town or city.

[mcdonaat]

Connecticut doesn't have county routes, as far as I know. We do have many "secret" routes which are state maintained. Example: Willow Brook Connector in Berlin. It's a little over a mile, heading west from CT 9's Exit 24 to the junction of CT 71A and CT 372, close to the New Britain city line. It's secret state route 571. Oddly enough, 372 happens to be the highest numbered state route we have.

You're correct.  Connecticut doesn't have county routes because it doesn't have county governments.  Everything not maintained by the state is maintained by the town or city.

Are there any non-state roads that aren't in a city or town?

[SD Mapman]

interestingly, there isn't any particular mandate in place for states to maintain the roads to their government offices; even the symbolically important ones. 

Almost all of the government offices in Pierre are insulated from the state-maintained roads by about two blocks. Now, Utah on the other hand....

[theline]

I'll see your Pierre and raise you an Indianapolis. Unless I remember incorrectly, the only state-maintained roads in the downtown are the I-65/70 inner belt, which comes nowhere close to the State House.

Don't get me started on another rant about INDOT's tendency to abandon highways in the cities. I could live with it if state law allowed the locality to sign the highways, even if they were locally maintained.

[hbelkins]

I'll see your Pierre and raise you an Indianapolis. Unless I remember incorrectly, the only state-maintained roads in the downtown are the I-65/70 inner belt, which comes nowhere close to the State House.

Don't get me started on another rant about INDOT's tendency to abandon highways in the cities. I could live with it if state law allowed the locality to sign the highways, even if they were locally maintained.

Aren't the signed business routes in South Bend actually locally maintained roads? If so, what's to keep Indy from signing Business US 31, Business US 421, etc.?

[tdindy88]

Nothing's keeping Indianapolis from signing as business routes, there's just no reason as to why they should (other than making us road-geeks happy.) The street names along the former highways (Michigan Road, Meridian Street, Washington Street, East Street, Kentucky Avenue and so on) have been so engrained in our heads that it hardly matters to your normal Naptown resident whether or not it's a business route, a state highway or a city street anymore. Also, 65 and 70 do come relatively close to the state house, less than ten blocks either way to the north or south, closer than the Monroe County or Tippecanoe County courthouses are from a state highway nowadays.

[SD Mapman]

Don't get me started on another rant about INDOT's tendency to abandon highways in the cities. I could live with it if state law allowed the locality to sign the highways, even if they were locally maintained.

Hey, if ours does, yours can too.

31-4-3.   Inclusion of city streets in system. The Department of Transportation may at its discretion extend the state trunk highway system to include any street or streets within the limits of any first or second class municipality if necessary to make a continuous route for any state trunk highway through the municipality.

[theline]

I for one think that the major "business routes" should be signed as such, to help travelers maneuver their way through. US 31 and US 40 would be the first that come to mind. In other cities, business routes might be even more useful, like in Ft. Wayne and Lafayette. Maybe it's just me.

Whether as business routes or regular highways, I think it's useful to the general public to have the most important city routes signed, especially since Indiana doesn't sign any county or secondary routes.

[kkt]

In your opinion, what are good reasons for a state to maintain a road that "goes nowhere"? As I worked on my reform of Louisiana's highway system, I am considering that the state should maintain a road if it is used heavily to access a state or national asset. Examples include:

• State universities. I'm keeping the business portion of LA 6 in Natchitoches because it goes right by Northwestern State University. I'm considering keeping LA 30 near LSU even though the state intends to revert it. I'm also going to look at state routes that provide direct access to the other universities.


• Access to state prisons. I'm keeping LA 66 because it goes to Louisiana State Penitentiary. I figure that the parish and local residents wouldn't be too happy if the state didn't maintain the road it uses to transport its miscreants.


• Military installations. There are a few state routes that provide direct access to Fort Polk and Barksdale AFB.


• National parks and preserves.
  

Can you think of other good reasons for a state to maintain a short road?

Seaports, airports, major industrial sites, tourism centers, governmental centers (for example, the cluster of federal buildings in San Francisco even though S.F. isn't a state capital), large private universities should be included along with public ones.  Not that every one of these should always have a state route, they're just possible good reasons for having one. 

Basically if there's a lot of out of area traffic and thus needs state signage for navigation, or there's an amount of traffic that produces more wear on the road than a locality can afford to maintain.

[Jardine]

State DOT road maintenance facilities should be on state highways.  {although it would be funny if the state employees had to wait for the county to get around to plowing the snow off the road so the state employees could get to work}

County seats, in my view, need to be on a state highway.  Also, their Highway Patrol offices/hubs.