Speed limits

[Duke87]

The one thing Oregon gets right, though, is getting rid of the word "limit" on speed limit signs.  Makes it far easier to read the number, I find.

Except that they're vioating the MUTCD by doing that, and I do believe AASHTO has gotten on their case about it more than once.

Besides, how hard is it really to read the numbers on a standard sign? It's easy, unless the sign is poorly placed in a spot where it's not very visible.

Personally, I think speed limits in general are silly. It's way too much of an oversimplification of the matter to just have one number. One size does not fit all. How fast it's safe to be driving varies not only from road to road, but from vehicle to vehicle, and from driver to driver (as wel as with the weather).

As a spry young 21 year old with quick reflexes and the ability to slam the brake real hard, I can safely drive considerably faster than a weak old lady who's slow to notice, slow to react, and can't slam pedals with such force.

For engineering calculations, it's standard to assume that it takes 2 seconds - yes, two full seconds - for a driver to react to an obstacle after seeing it. Obviously, most people can react much faster than that, but with engineering you have to be conservative about it.
So, in essence, the speed limits are calculated based on grandpas driving. Unless you're old like that, you can be driving significantly above the speed limit and still be driving safely.

Given that, I tend to simply disregard speed limits and use my own discretion and judgment as to what's prudent instead. I know what me and my car are capable of better than any sign does.

[agentsteel53]

unless the sign is poorly placed in a spot where it's not very visible.

but how else would those poor southern sheriffs feed their starving children??

[deathtopumpkins]

How fast it's safe to be driving varies not only from road to road, but from vehicle to vehicle, and from driver to driver (as wel as with the weather).

That's why when you took a Driver Education class to get your license they told you that that is the speed limit in "ideal conditions" and that it is advisable to drive slower in traffic, if you're nervous or having car trouble, or in inclement weather. 

[Voyager]

Speed limits only give extra funding to the police and highway patrol networks, because people who are driving too fast can usually afford it.

[Tarkus]

Except that they're vioating the MUTCD by doing that, and I do believe AASHTO has gotten on their case about it more than once.

Actually, Oregon has an approved supplement to the MUTCD that allows the word "Limit" to be dropped, though I believe the FHWA gave them a hard time, which is why you see the occasional "Speed Limit" sign on I-5 and I-84.  They apparently thought that people would think it was "just an advisory", which is kind of silly reasoning. 

Personally, I'd prefer to see the Oregon-style setup phased in as the MUTCD standard, but I'm biased.  

And I do think we should go to an advisory-only setup in most situations.  Montana had the right idea, I think.

-Alex (Tarkus)

[agentsteel53]

Montana definitely had the right idea.  I don't think speeding should be a crime.  Driving too fast for conditions, sure.  Reckless driving, absolutely.  But just exceeding a single fixed number that does not take into account road conditions - not so much. 

45 in a 25 in a neighborhood with small children?  Sure, that's bad.  But out in the middle of nowhere, say I-10 in west Texas, whether one goes 75 or 90 or 110 usually doesn't make a bit of difference.

[Voyager]

Yeah, most of the time I don't see the need of speed limits on the open freeway.

[corco]

Wyoming is one of my favorite highways for speed limits. Any narrow-shoulderless cowpath with a Wyoming Highway shield gets a speed limit of 65 in a rural area without any regard to how well the roadway is built. There are dozens of places within the state where the road is barely two lanes wide due to how overgrown the edges are but the speed limits are still 65

[deathtopumpkins]

Anybody know what the official limit on speed limits in New York State is? A friend yesterday told me interstates in upstate new york are 85 MPH but I don't believe him... 

[vdeane]

55 is the official limit and most rural interstates are at 65 but regardless of the speed limit it seems that most people drive at least 75, especially on the Thruway.

[agentsteel53]

Anybody know what the official limit on speed limits in New York State is? A friend yesterday told me interstates in upstate new york are 85 MPH but I don't believe him... 

65.  The State Speed Limit is "55 unless otherwise marked" and the Thruway is posted 65 for the most part.

[deathtopumpkins]

Okay... thanks.  Needless to say that friend of mine keeps "forgetting" his picture of an 85 speed limit sign.

Here's an interesting sign a few of you might have already seen: 

I thought this was very odd when I came across it in Gloucester Co., VA the other day. Never seen a sign like it, and there were ones at higher speeds too, where the road was even better maintained after the sign, so I assumed that instead of defaulting to 25 (state speed limit unless otherwise posted) there was actually NO speed limit, and thus went 55  where the road could handle it, anyway. Oh, and apologies for the poor picture quality. I don't have a camera, so took that on my phone.

[Sykotyk]

some of it has to do with the national 55mph speed limit of 1973 (to conserve gasoline), but even before then, some US states were rather slow.  For example, I think it's still on the books that, unless otherwise posted, Massachusetts's speed limit is 40 mph.

how well are speed limits enforced in Europe?  Here, it's a total guessing game.  For example, the central valley of California is posted at 70, and nobody does under 80.


Nevada state highway 140 - I don't think the highway patrol even knows it exists!

I drove that road. I only got up to about 100mph or so at times. I only saw 24 cars in 178 miles (never caught up to anyone, never had anyone catch up to me, they were all going east).

http://www.sykotyk.com/supertrip/

Sykotyk

[Tarkus]

Here's an interesting sign a few of you might have already seen: 

We've got those all over the place in Oregon, actually.  Legally, it means that the speed limit reverts to the statutory limit for the type of road.  They've largely fallen out of favor with ODOT, but they're still fairly common on county roads.  And at least as far as county roads go out here, they're not likely to be enforced.  I'd imagine the FHWA and AASHTO have a collective heart attack anytime they see one. 

-Alex (Tarkus)

[Ish]

- I-95 through New Hampshire, the 12 miles or so from the southern end of Portsmouth to the MA border is 65 mph but it has 4 lanes in each direction, no hills, and it perfectly straight for the most part.  But it's also enforced pretty well, although people still fly on it.  Continues down through Massachusetts to 128.  Straight, flat... 65.

- Besides the Portland and Bangor areas, the interstates in Maine are 65 mph, which is dumb when you head north of Bangor because that road also straightens out and in the 120 miles between Bangor and Houlton, you'll see between 10 and 20 cars.

- The high-level Piscataqua River bridge that takes I-95 from New Hampshire to Maine is always an interesting place to drive.  Just about every day I cross that bridge (Portsmouth and the first three exits in Maine are 55 mph)... I go 65 through the area, and as I'm going up the bridge everyone else is going 50-60 and I'm passing them.  Starting back down the bridge into Maine everyone's passing me going between 65-80.  That's just a case of people being afraid of the Big Bad Bridge.  Of which it's not.

- Finally, the US 1 Bypass which is the second of three ways to go from Maine to New Hampshire, has a 35 mph speed limit on the stretch in Kittery approaching the bridge to Portsmouth.  The road has 4 lanes with a center turning lane and very little traffic, and only a few small businesses.  It is straight and flat.  35 mph.  My biggest speed limit gripe.  Great place for the police to sit too.

[deathtopumpkins]

Here's an interesting sign a few of you might have already seen: 

We've got those all over the place in Oregon, actually.  Legally, it means that the speed limit reverts to the statutory limit for the type of road.  They've largely fallen out of favor with ODOT, but they're still fairly common on county roads.  And at least as far as county roads go out here, they're not likely to be enforced.  I'd imagine the FHWA and AASHTO have a collective heart attack anytime they see one. 

-Alex (Tarkus)

Really? Hmm... that must mean it goes down to 25... (I think) Which is, well, retarded, as the roads in question could easily handle 45 without even slowing down for the curves. They had a double yellow centerline, paved shoulders, guardrails, etc. And for the record, I didn't see a single cop. 

[mediaguru]

Here's an interesting sign a few of you might have already seen: 

These signs are also placed intermediately at the end of school zones along rural highways in Tennessee.

[Tarkus]

Really? Hmm... that must mean it goes down to 25... (I think)

Actually, they're technically 55 here after the "End XX Mile Speed Zone" in most situations here in Oregon.  They're almost always at edges of towns in rural areas.  I believe the wording in the Oregon Drivers' Manual basically states that they're technically 55, but 55 may not be appropriate for them in all situations.

55mph is the statutory speed limit for pretty much everything aside from residential zones and interstates, 25mph is statutory for residential zones (and beaches), 20mph for CBDs and 15mph in alleys.  Everything aside from that is the result of an overriding "Speed Zone Order", which is produced after ODOT does a study and consults with local jurisdictions. 

Of course, there has been some rather interesting abuse of that system, because it can be a matter of splitting hairs as to whether a road is "residential" or not.  The override orders are actually posted online, too (a major time-waster for me), and I've found quite a few situations where it appears local authorities have illegally lowered speed limits. 

I've been considering outing them on my (currently unused) blog.   Washington County and the cities within it are particularly guilty. 

-Alex (Tarkus)

[deathtopumpkins]

Well according to my Driver's Ed class I took and my VA Driving Manual, 25's the statutory speed limit here in VA except on interstates which are 55. Regardless of what type of zoning, etc., it's all just 25... which really doesn't make sense and there must be some exception it doesn't mention.

As for ODOT's speed limit system, I wish VA did something similar... that would be really helpful.

Of course, there has been some rather interesting abuse of that system, because it can be a matter of splitting hairs as to whether a road is "residential" or not.

Heh... I believe that. Politicians just use it to advance their own personal interests I'm sure.

And you have a blog? 

[Scott5114]

I've been considering outing them on my (currently unused) blog.   Washington County and the cities within it are particularly guilty. 

doitdoitdoit!

[PalmettoDP]

Here in SC, our statutory limits are 30 (urban) and 55 (rural), although SCDOT does a poor job of posting them at the state line. It appears that North Carolina's are 55 and 35 - if you cross the state line on any road other than an interstate, there are signs that read "State speed limit 55 unless otherwise posted," and I also see many city limit signs with "Citywide speed limit 35 unless otherwise posted." The "citywide" signs are frequently posted on roads with higher speed limits, so I assume it's the standard sign for NC.

[Tarkus]

doitdoitdoit!

LOL . . . I may just have to.  I started the blog awhile ago, but thus far, haven't posted anything to it. 

-Alex (Tarkus)

[74/171FAN]

from deathtopumpkins: That's the speed on every stretch of interstate in VA that I can find except for I-95 and I believe I-85 both south of Richmond. But the average speed everyone drives around here, even in the 55 zones, is only about 85, which is much slower than what I've observed elsewhere.

Its 65 throughout Virginia in the rural areas(except for maybe I-85(as it might have been raised to 70 in some spots(I am not sure though)).  In the Richmond/Tri-Cities area I-295 is 65 throughout, I-85 is at least 65 up to US 1/US 460 Bus(Exit 63) and 60 up to I-95, which is 55 in Downtown Richmond and Downtown Petersburg but 60 from Colonial Hieghts to 1/2 mile south of Maury St(Exit 73).  For other freeways, VA 288-65 throughout, VA 150-60 from US 60 to I-95/VA 895(the rest of the freeway is 55), VA 895-60 west of the toll plaza, 65 east of it, and I-64 is 65 up to VA 288,  then 60 up to at least Gaskins Rd or US 250/Broad St and Glenside Dr,  55 in Downtown Richmond,  60 from US 360 to about VA 156/Airport Dr and 65 east of there until Hampton Roads.

[Hellfighter]

It's kind of funny, in the Detroit area, the Southfield freeway (M-39) is listed as 55 Mph, but the normal speed people do is 70! Even more hilarious, on MDOT's site, in their traffic conditions page, they report the average speed as 65.

[Revive 755]

It's kind of funny, in the Detroit area, the Southfield freeway (M-39) is listed as 55 Mph, but the normal speed people do is 70! Even more hilarious, on MDOT's site, in their traffic conditions page, they report the average speed as 65.

It's even worse in Indiana, where on I-465 people do 70 in a normal 55, but at the time it is a workless work zone posted at 45.  Real fun for the out-of-state driver, especially when there are multiple cops about, but who don't seem to be enforcing the limit.