West Virginia

[CanesFan27]

When the Bureau of Public Roads authorized the southward extension of Interstate 79 into West Virginia in October 1961, the prevailing wisdom was that 79 would follow US 19 all the way to Beckley and the WV Turnpike.  However, behind the scenes, the head of the State Road Commission - Burl Sawyers - quietly changed  79's routing to end in Charleston.

The story behind I-79's move from Beckley to Charleston is now up at the blog.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/12/interstate-79-to-beckley-wv-it-was.html

[seicer]

Interesting perspective Adam.

"Beckley's population has slowly declined from 20,000 in 1980 to just over 17,000 in 2020.  Beckley would have been an intersection of the East Coast (and Port of Norfolk) and a direct line to the Midwest (Interstate 77) and Western Pennsylvania/Western New York (Interstate 79).  Beckley easily would be a distribution hub in modern times."

I'm not sure an additional interstate would have made much of a difference. Beckley remains a regional commercial center but its population (and fortunes) are directly tied to the fortunes of its surrounding communities, many of which are in long-term decline because they were all essentially coal camps or company towns. Once that mined closed, the surrounding community will slowly dwindle. Some of the stronger communities in the area are stable because of their relation to US 19 and the interstates: Beckley is the regional commercial center, but Fayetteville is all but tourist-oriented and stable. Oak Hill is becoming the second tourist-oriented community for the area as Fayetteville has all but been filled out and gotten pretty costly. Beckley is too far from New River to tap into that activity for now, although it is pushing for new and enhanced connections to New River National Park and Preserve through new trailheads and facilities at Piney Creek.

There is also a lack of large-scale land for development at Beckley, although I guess additional hills could be moved for distribution centers. The state so far hasn't been a huge draw for those types of developments; it's too far away from the eastern seaboard and too far away from major north-south routes (think of the concentrations along Interstates 65/75 in Kentucky).

I'm not sure an interstate these days would be pushed for in the Beckley-Summersville area. US 19 works just fine for the most part, although those signals between New River and Beckley will need to be eliminated in the long term. It's also great that the state can close down New River Gorge Bridge for Bridge Day, which I'm sure wouldn't be possible if it was Interstate 79. And many of those pull-offs are great places to access rock climbing routes and swimming holes (I can vouch for just pulling off the road in many areas for just that).

[GCrites]

https://nitro64.com

Totally sounds like an early Nintendo 64 emulator.

[GCrites]

Interesting perspective Adam.

"Beckley's population has slowly declined from 20,000 in 1980 to just over 17,000 in 2020.  Beckley would have been an intersection of the East Coast (and Port of Norfolk) and a direct line to the Midwest (Interstate 77) and Western Pennsylvania/Western New York (Interstate 79).  Beckley easily would be a distribution hub in modern times."

I'm not sure an additional interstate would have made much of a difference. Beckley remains a regional commercial center but its population (and fortunes) are directly tied to the fortunes of its surrounding communities, many of which are in long-term decline because they were all essentially coal camps or company towns. Once that mined closed, the surrounding community will slowly dwindle. Some of the stronger communities in the area are stable because of their relation to US 19 and the interstates: Beckley is the regional commercial center, but Fayetteville is all but tourist-oriented and stable. Oak Hill is becoming the second tourist-oriented community for the area as Fayetteville has all but been filled out and gotten pretty costly. Beckley is too far from New River to tap into that activity for now, although it is pushing for new and enhanced connections to New River National Park and Preserve through new trailheads and facilities at Piney Creek.

There is also a lack of large-scale land for development at Beckley, although I guess additional hills could be moved for distribution centers. The state so far hasn't been a huge draw for those types of developments; it's too far away from the eastern seaboard and too far away from major north-south routes (think of the concentrations along Interstates 65/75 in Kentucky).

Those hills are murder for distribution center project cost. So many of today's buildings are 500,000-1.2 million square feet. That's minimum 40 acres with support structures such as parking. As everyone in this thread is aware, finding 40 flat acres that's not in a flood plain in most of WV is very difficult (Eastern Panhandle is your best shot and guess what it has a lot of warehouses near I-81) including Beckley. The math just goes away with all that grading and blasting. I wonder how the "new" East Huntington Wal-Mart from 2005's payback period was affected by all the grading and blasting I observed from my old apartment at a site that didn't really seem all that bad... but required way more earthmoving than I expected once I saw it finished. No way could Beckley approximate Rickenbacker or Florence for warehouse development despite the freeway connections. And how is the rail?

[Dirt Roads]

Right - this will become a free-flowing interchange. Traffic often backed up to the mainline with traffic waiting to turn onto the access road down to WV 817.

Was this happening in recent years, or do you remember that far back in time?  When I-64 first opened, traffic exiting from I-64 westbound onto Exit 44 (then WV-17) were required to stop before turning left onto the access road.  By the mid-1970s, rush hour westbound traffic would back up onto mainline I-64 and sometimes even block the right lane on the Green Bridge.  That was occurring even though there was hardly any traffic from (by then) US-35 to westbound I-64, but rather the accordion effect of a steady stream of traffic stopping one car at a time.  (Because of the close proximity to the Green Bridge, that off-ramp is fairly short).

If I recall correctly, the DOH changed that back in the late 1970s and placed the stop sign for traffic turning left from the access road to westbound I-64 (which is the least active movement on the interchange).  But for many years, non-locals still got confused and stopped at the left turn onto the access road (treating this as an All-Way Stop with the stop sign missing).  I don't ever recall any signage to instruct exit traffic to continue without stopping.

[seicer]

More recently but I think it was just because of the very slow turn that was required that made traffic queue.

@GCrites80s: And think of the surcharge that would be required just to settle the earth! (And think of the surcharge that wasn't done on US 35...)

[SP Cook]

The existing mainline bridge over the Kanawha River will be rehabbed to serve eastbound traffic. A twin is being built for westbound traffic.

The green bridge pictured above at the St. Albans interchange is being removed. Its span isn't wide enough to accommodate 6 lanes for I-64 underneath without eliminating shoulders. It is being replaced with the two curved ramps which will eliminate the existing stop sign for the I-64 WB onramp.

Correct.

[hbelkins]

Were traffic volumes at the St. Albans (WV 817) exit significantly impacted by the new US 35?

[wriddle082]

Were traffic volumes at the St. Albans (WV 817) exit significantly impacted by the new US 35?

My guess would be yes, since of course WV 817 is formerly US 35, and this was the primary access for many years.  I would think that the new 35, even when it still terminated just past Winfield, significantly reduced traffic volumes at the St. Albans exit.  Of course the reconfiguration of that interchange would have fixed the backups back in the day, and almost wouldn't be needed today if I-64 wasn't being widened.

And if they really are fully replacing the original I-64 Kanawha River bridge, it could perhaps be due to the final configuration of the St. Albans interchange rebuild (hear me out).  Perhaps the on-ramp to EB 64 needs extra acceleration length that simply cannot be provided by the original bridge?  I know that ramp is supposed to merge in as an added auxiliary lane that drops at Nitro, but maybe it still needs extra length or width for the merge?

And the big question still remains:  What type of bridge or bridges will the new I-64 Kanawha River crossing(s) be?  New steel truss bridge(s) like the original?  Concrete box beam like the Dunbar/South Charleston bridges upstream?

[Tom958]

When the Bureau of Public Roads authorized the southward extension of Interstate 79 into West Virginia in October 1961, the prevailing wisdom was that 79 would follow US 19 all the way to Beckley and the WV Turnpike.  However, behind the scenes, the head of the State Road Commission - Burl Sawyers - quietly changed  79's routing to end in Charleston.

The story behind I-79's move from Beckley to Charleston is now up at the blog.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/12/interstate-79-to-beckley-wv-it-was.html

I participated in an online discussion about this not too long ago, but I can't find it. I found that the traffic volumes on i-79 and US 19 south of... Sutton? are remarkably similar. I wonder if completing Corridor H will attract more traffic to I-79.

For the reasons you cited, and per seicer's observations, I think the correct decision was made, even if the method by which it was made was less than ideal.

[wriddle082]

When the Bureau of Public Roads authorized the southward extension of Interstate 79 into West Virginia in October 1961, the prevailing wisdom was that 79 would follow US 19 all the way to Beckley and the WV Turnpike.  However, behind the scenes, the head of the State Road Commission - Burl Sawyers - quietly changed  79's routing to end in Charleston.

The story behind I-79's move from Beckley to Charleston is now up at the blog.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/12/interstate-79-to-beckley-wv-it-was.html

I participated in an online discussion about this not too long ago, but I can't find it. I found that the traffic volumes on i-79 and US 19 south of... Sutton? are remarkably similar. I wonder if completing Corridor H will attract more traffic to I-79.

For the reasons you cited, and per seicer's observations, I think the correct decision was made, even if the method by which it was made was less than ideal.

Beckley was to be the location of the 77/79 junction only.  64 was still projected to break away from 77 at Belle (northern terminus of the WV Turnpike) and roughly follow US 60 towards current 64 at Sam Black Church, with a 64/79 interchange (I would guess a cloverleaf) east of Ansted.  I'm thinking the Ansted area could have been the distribution hub instead of Beckley.  I think the land in that area is a bit flatter.

[seicer]

I was looking through project plans to see if anything had been prepared but I could not find anything. Nor any plans for Vankirk Drive's extension from the Beckley service plaza.

--

Parkways reviewing I-64/I-77 split at Beckley

Members of the West Virginia Parkways Authority have asked their engineers to study whether it would make sense to make some changes where Interstate 77 and Interstate 64 split south of Beckley.

[...]

The current southbound split of the interstates on the West Virginia Turnpike is marked by a long barrier wall. Parkways Authority Executive Director Jeff Miller said the engineering study will look at whether changes should be made to the length of the wall.

"It will simply ask the question, would it make sense to remove any portion of that barrier wall to allow traffic more opportunity to switch lanes if they are in the 64 lane and need to get into the 77 lane,"  Miller said.

[Dirt Roads]

Were traffic volumes at the St. Albans (WV 817) exit significantly impacted by the new US 35?

My guess would be yes, since of course WV 817 is formerly US 35, and this was the primary access for many years.  I would think that the new 35, even when it still terminated just past Winfield, significantly reduced traffic volumes at the St. Albans exit.  Of course the reconfiguration of that interchange would have fixed the backups back in the day, and almost wouldn't be needed today if I-64 wasn't being widened.

I'm sure that there were exceptions, but from the time of the switchover from WV-17 to US-35 after the Silver Bridge disaster there was very little traffic using Exit 44 to access US-35 northbound.  I suspect that much of that traffic was for the John E. Amos power plant, or for the subdivisions located east of Winfield.  The primary route to get to Point Pleasant was always WV-34 at the (now) Teays Valley exit (Exit 39), which was then posted as the Winfield exit.  Most of the Exit 44 traffic headed for Scary and Scott Depot still heads that way (although we always used Exit 44 to get home in central Scott Depot, but now use the new Exit 40).  And of course, all of the Exit 44 headed for St. Albans still goes that way.

[hbelkins]

I was looking through project plans to see if anything had been prepared but I could not find anything. Nor any plans for Vankirk Drive's extension from the Beckley service plaza.

--

Parkways reviewing I-64/I-77 split at Beckley

Members of the West Virginia Parkways Authority have asked their engineers to study whether it would make sense to make some changes where Interstate 77 and Interstate 64 split south of Beckley.

[...]

The current southbound split of the interstates on the West Virginia Turnpike is marked by a long barrier wall. Parkways Authority Executive Director Jeff Miller said the engineering study will look at whether changes should be made to the length of the wall.

"It will simply ask the question, would it make sense to remove any portion of that barrier wall to allow traffic more opportunity to switch lanes if they are in the 64 lane and need to get into the 77 lane,"  Miller said.

I've long thought that the split for the two routes on the southbound turnpike occurs way too early upstream, and don't understand why it's not closer to the gore point.

Same with this interchange on I-75 southbound near Lexington: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.1206532,-84.5273954,582m/data=!3m1!1e3

[SP Cook]

Were traffic volumes at the St. Albans (WV 817) exit significantly impacted by the new US 35?

Not really.  Before the building of the 4 lane US 35, the common practice was to turn right onto WV 34 just before the speed trap town of Winfield and follow this to I-64 at exit 39.  Long backups on 34 South were common, as, sadly were truck-car collisions, several fatal.

[Black-Man]

Interesting perspective Adam.

Beckley is too far from New River to tap into that activity for now, although it is pushing for new and enhanced connections to New River National Park and Preserve through new trailheads and facilities at Piney Creek.

There is also a lack of large-scale land for development at Beckley, although I guess additional hills could be moved for distribution centers. The state so far hasn't been a huge draw for those types of developments;

I was told by a reliable source (and I verified by looking at the WV funding spreadsheet) that the bike/hiking trail connecting the soccer fields to the New River Gorge via Piney Creek has been approved for funding for this year. There is also planning for a housing development along the trails near the soccer fields. Though the National Park is the attraction, outliers to the area exist. There are over 300 homes at Glade Springs as an example.

[Tom958]

I've long thought that the split for the two routes on the southbound turnpike occurs way too early upstream, and don't understand why it's not closer to the gore point.

It has to be so that heavy trucks bound for I-64 and slowed by the upward grade there don't have to choose between obstructing traffic in the center lane or moving to the right lane and missing their exit. The length might be excessive, but I'm sure a lot of thought was put into it during design. Also, the 1.2 miles from the preceding onramp to the split provides ample opportunity for getting into the correct lane.

Same with this interchange on I-75 southbound near Lexington: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.1206532,-84.5273954,582m/data=!3m1!1e3

Ha, I have no idea. 

[wriddle082]

I've long thought that the split for the two routes on the southbound turnpike occurs way too early upstream, and don't understand why it's not closer to the gore point.

It has to be so that heavy trucks bound for I-64 and slowed by the upward grade there don't have to choose between obstructing traffic in the center lane or moving to the right lane and missing their exit. The length might be excessive, but I'm sure a lot of thought was put into it during design. Also, the 1.2 miles from the preceding onramp to the split provides ample opportunity for getting into the correct lane.

I had always thought that an "exit toll plaza"  had been planed for that long stretch along the I-64 carriageway, and even though it was never built they didn't change the ramp design.

[Mapmikey]

The original I-75 SB ramp to I-64 WB was only about 600 ft from the exit gore to a 30 mph curve, so lengthening the ramp seems logical...

[seicer]

I thought that the extra long ramps from the Turnpike south to I-64 east were for toll booths but engineering plans that are available online don't show any of that. There is a modest grade that really doesn't require a climbing lane, but I-64 east of there has climbing lanes on other small grades (unlike other interstates in the state), so that could be a reason.

There is a plan to potentially modify that extra long ramp to remove confusion between the divergence. Having become very familiar with that interchange (girlfriend lives near it), vehicles will switch all over the place at the last minute to get into the correct lane. Perhaps this has gotten better since the widening on the Turnpike is all but complete.

This will all change when the Coalfields Expressway connects to the interchange at some point in the future.

[wriddle082]

There is a modest grade that really doesn't require a climbing lane, but I-64 east of there has climbing lanes on other small grades (unlike other interstates in the state), so that could be a reason.

That's an aspect of modern rural interstate design: having climbing lanes where you wouldn't ordinarily see them on older rural interstates.  I-24 between Nashville and Clarksville in TN has a lot of these, and it was the last major interstate link in that state to open.  I can't remember whether or not I-79 has many of these, as much of it was a latecomer to WV as well.

[Bitmapped]

There is a modest grade that really doesn't require a climbing lane, but I-64 east of there has climbing lanes on other small grades (unlike other interstates in the state), so that could be a reason.

That's an aspect of modern rural interstate design: having climbing lanes where you wouldn't ordinarily see them on older rural interstates.  I-24 between Nashville and Clarksville in TN has a lot of these, and it was the last major interstate link in that state to open.  I can't remember whether or not I-79 has many of these, as much of it was a latecomer to WV as well.

Climbing lanes are rare on I-79. There are one or two locations with them in Kanawha County, and one pair outside Morgantown. WVDOH has plans to build them on I-79 NB near Burnsville, where there is a long grade but frankly one where I've never seen the lack of climbing lanes cause issues.

I-68, which was built about the same time as most of I-79, has several sets of climbing lanes where comparable locations on I-79 don't. MDSHA went crazy with climbing lanes on their part of the highway.

[Dirt Roads]

There is a modest grade that really doesn't require a climbing lane, but I-64 east of there has climbing lanes on other small grades (unlike other interstates in the state), so that could be a reason.

That climbing grade on the Turnpike southbound at the I-64 exit is relatively short but it is still steep enough to be a problem for trucks needing to get over to the left lane to exit. That arrangement always made sense to me:  (1) Let truckers have enough time on the Crab Orchard downgrade to get over in the left lane before crossing Piney Creek); (2) Give faster traffic a chance to get around those truckers bound for I-64 before the split; and (3) provide a passing lane around those truckers after the split.  The exit essentially works like a long single lane offramp with a truck lane.

That's an aspect of modern rural interstate design: having climbing lanes where you wouldn't ordinarily see them on older rural interstates.  I-24 between Nashville and Clarksville in TN has a lot of these, and it was the last major interstate link in that state to open.  I can't remember whether or not I-79 has many of these, as much of it was a latecomer to WV as well.

Climbing lanes are rare on I-79. There are one or two locations with them in Kanawha County, and one pair outside Morgantown. WVDOH has plans to build them on I-79 NB near Burnsville, where there is a long grade but frankly one where I've never seen the lack of climbing lanes cause issues.

Since I had family there for many years, I have seen double-wide trucks on the Three Lick upgrade, but indeed it was rare.  I wonder if there are more trucks on I-79 these days as relief valve for all of the truck congestion on I-81 (which is certainly lacking in northbound truck lanes).

[seicer]

There is a modest grade that really doesn't require a climbing lane, but I-64 east of there has climbing lanes on other small grades (unlike other interstates in the state), so that could be a reason.

That's an aspect of modern rural interstate design: having climbing lanes where you wouldn't ordinarily see them on older rural interstates.  I-24 between Nashville and Clarksville in TN has a lot of these, and it was the last major interstate link in that state to open.  I can't remember whether or not I-79 has many of these, as much of it was a latecomer to WV as well.

Climbing lanes are rare on I-79. There are one or two locations with them in Kanawha County, and one pair outside Morgantown. WVDOH has plans to build them on I-79 NB near Burnsville, where there is a long grade but frankly one where I've never seen the lack of climbing lanes cause issues.

I-68, which was built about the same time as most of I-79, has several sets of climbing lanes where comparable locations on I-79 don't. MDSHA went crazy with climbing lanes on their part of the highway.

I think those are among the last segments of I-79 to be built in the state, too.

[SP Cook]

I think those are among the last segments of I-79 to be built in the state, too.

Correct.  Roughly, 79 was built north to south.