JetBlue defects to the dark side

[PHLBOS]

The airlines also liked separate baggage fees because (1) unbundling allows them to quote lower fares in their advertising, and (2) fees in general are "sticky," which means the customer does not expect them to be waived or phased out, and thus they defend the airline's profitability whether oil prices are low or high.

Actually, the unbundling of services (including the introduction of checked bag fees) started around 2008 when fuel prices soared and increased airline competition (compared to just a few years earlier) at more airports meant that carriers couldn't just increase their fares to offset any bump in fuel costs.

At large, the flying public was brainwashed/sold a bill of goods on the notion that these new fees meant that airfares would not increase (in in some instances, go down).  Some carriers even went as far to infer that the fees were only a temporary measure until fuel prices stabilized (I remember seeing a placard at a Northwest Airlines counter stating such just before they started charging for the first checked bag). 

So what happened since?  Several carriers shut down for good (ATA, Aloha, Champion Air) and others have since merged; Delta & Northwest, Frontier & Midwest, United & Continental, Southwest & AirTran (still in progress) and finally American & US Airways (still in progress).  As result, fares in many markets have actually gone up due to reduced overall competition and rising (until recently) fuel prices.

Got to show the "share holders" their expected %1000/quarter gains at all cost.

Bingo!  That's exactly why JetBlue is doing such and many on aviation-forum sites like Airliners.net will tell you that first hand. 

It's worth noting that many on that site keep saying that Southwest will eventually have to backtrack on their Bags Fly Free slogan/campaign in order to please its shareholders.  Hopefully, that day will never come; although Southwest could try to charge for the 2nd checked bag and still keep the first checked bag free now that JetBlue will no longer offer a free checked bag with the base fare.

[mtantillo]

Pre-Check is awesome! So is Nexus! And you know what both programs are? Both are basically requiring you to "apply" for the ability to be treated the way you were pre-9/11. Although I object to the concept in principle, in the world that we are in today, I don't see any reasonable alternative. But the whole system is basically based on a presumption of guilt, and "prove you are not a bad guy" (via enrollment in Pre-Check or Nexus) rather than the government having to prove that you are a bad guy.

[vdeane]

I'd love to have Nexus; unfortunately I don't cross the border nearly often enough to justify it (at the current rate I might cross once every couple/few years since my travel is almost entirely NY outside of roadmeets for the foreseeable future (though next year will be an oddball with 2 of my 3 non-roadmeet/non-family trips including Vermont and Massachusetts)), and I'm pretty sure the explanation of "I'm a roadgeek who's tired of trying to phrase her travel plans in a way more easily understood by customs agents just looking for any excuse possible to search someone" won't fly (pardon the pun) as an answer to "why are you applying for this program".  (I'm pretty sure "so I can legally clinch NY 182" wouldn't work either)

[J N Winkler]

Actually, the unbundling of services (including the introduction of checked bag fees) started around 2008 when fuel prices soared and increased airline competition (compared to just a few years earlier) at more airports meant that carriers couldn't just increase their fares to offset any bump in fuel costs.

At large, the flying public was brainwashed/sold a bill of goods on the notion that these new fees meant that airfares would not increase (in in some instances, go down).  Some carriers even went as far to infer that the fees were only a temporary measure until fuel prices stabilized (I remember seeing a placard at a Northwest Airlines counter stating such just before they started charging for the first checked bag).

I agree high fuel prices were part of the justification the airlines cited at the time.  However, in a newspaper article on the airline industry I read some time after baggage fees were phased in, the stickiness of such fees was cited as one reason it was a complete pipe dream to expect them to go away when fuel prices dropped. 

So what happened since?  Several carriers shut down for good (ATA, Aloha, Champion Air) and others have since merged; Delta & Northwest, Frontier & Midwest, United & Continental, Southwest & AirTran (still in progress) and finally American & US Airways (still in progress).  As result, fares in many markets have actually gone up due to reduced overall competition and rising (until recently) fuel prices.

A lot of these mergers occurred after one of the airlines involved had to declare bankruptcy.  I have long suspected that the airlines use the bankruptcy court to establish monopoly positions, which they can then milk through capacity realignments (high seat occupancy percentages, together with declining seat pitch, are important reasons the experience of flying is now so bad).

[kkt]

If you never fly, where are you getting this impression of air travel? It's nowhere near as bad as that. But it's incredibly easier for the frequent traveler. Even in a major airport on a busy day, I don't think I've ever been more than the 10th person in line for TSA Pre Check. You don't have to take anything out of your bag, take your shoes off, or even take off your jacket. You walk through a standard metal detector (not a body scanner), and that's it. It might as well be 1987 again. At my two most commonly-used airports (SFO and LAX...both very large and busy airports), my average time–from stepping onto the curb to arriving at my gate–is about 10 minutes.

Really?  My last flight was Seattle-San Jose, CA and back, last July.  Both ways, show ID, take shoes off, empty pockets, take jackets off, take some things out of carryon and send through the scanner flat, about 20 minutes just for security.

[algorerhythms]

It varies a lot by airport. The past couple of times I've been through the Oklahoma City airport, they've had me go through the Pre-Check line, which is how briantroutman describes it: metal detector, keep your shoes on (though I had to take mine off anyway the last time because my shoes have metal in them), and you don't have to take stuff out of your bag.

[jakeroot]

If you never fly, where are you getting this impression of air travel? It's nowhere near as bad as that. But it's incredibly easier for the frequent traveler. Even in a major airport on a busy day, I don't think I've ever been more than the 10th person in line for TSA Pre Check. You don't have to take anything out of your bag, take your shoes off, or even take off your jacket. You walk through a standard metal detector (not a body scanner), and that's it. It might as well be 1987 again. At my two most commonly-used airports (SFO and LAX...both very large and busy airports), my average time–from stepping onto the curb to arriving at my gate–is about 10 minutes.

Really?  My last flight was Seattle-San Jose, CA and back, last July.  Both ways, show ID, take shoes off, empty pockets, take jackets off, take some things out of carryon and send through the scanner flat, about 20 minutes just for security.

Seattle-Tacoma, being the only major airport for Seattle, can get a lot busier than LAX and SFO (both airports have a number of alternatives). That said, I fly A LOT and it really depends on when your flight is, the time of year, and the day of the week. I park in the Port of Seattle employee lot (I got a hookup) and take the bus to the airport which can take about 10-15 minutes depending on how lucky we get with the signals. Then I take an elevator up the the fourth floor to the check-in area (always use confirmation codes to print the tickets). I always gate-check bags (if necessary) because then they don't charge you, but I rarely have to check bags at all. As for security, the key is to keep as much shit in your bag before-hand (jewelry, watches, hats, etc) as humanly possible. Always avoid the lines with kids and old people (they never know the rules) and always wear slip-on shoes. Generally, the more you fly, the quicker you can slide through security.

[oscar]

Pre-Check is awesome! So is Nexus! And you know what both programs are? Both are basically requiring you to "apply" for the ability to be treated the way you were pre-9/11. Although I object to the concept in principle, in the world that we are in today, I don't see any reasonable alternative. But the whole system is basically based on a presumption of guilt, and "prove you are not a bad guy" (via enrollment in Pre-Check or Nexus) rather than the government having to prove that you are a bad guy.

Good you put "apply" in quotes.  The three flights from U.S. airports I took this year (DCA-SAN via DFW, SAN-IAD via MDW, DCA-YUL), i got Pre-Checked without having to lift a finger.  And it's not like I'm a frequent air traveler, either, so I don't know how anyone got the idea I'm trustworthy.

If Canada has a similar program, I didn't get covered by it on the flights I had to go through security (Montreal-Kuujjuaq, Kuujjuaq-Iqaluit, Yellowknife-Toronto via Edmonton, Toronto-DCA in 2014, Halifax-Goose Bay and back in 2013).

[briantroutman]

Good you put "apply" in quotes.  The three flights from U.S. airports I took this year (DCA-SAN via DFW, SAN-IAD via MDW, DCA-YUL), i got Pre-Checked without having to lift a finger.  And it's not like I'm a frequent air traveler, either, so I don't know how anyone got the idea I'm trustworthy.

Among frequent travelers, the number one complaint about TSA Pre Check is that non-Pre Check people are being let into the line. And based on my experiences and the accounts of other travelers, it seems that seniors and families–the two groups that are probably least able to move through the line swiftly–are the most frequent targets to get this free, unexpected "upgrade" . And since it is unexpected, they start taking off their shoes, undoing belts, pulling things out of their bags...until a TSA agent yells at them. They're unhappy because they don't know why they're being yelled at, and the frequent travelers are upset because their express lane has turned into a parking lot.

My understanding is that the TSA is under some kind of congressional pressure to pass a certain minimum percentage of passengers through Pre Check lines. And since the number of travelers voluntarily signing up for Pre hasn't met expectations, they've been diverting regular passengers into Pre. My impression is that this practice has declined somewhat, because it hasn't been an issue in any of my October or November flights.

[Mdcastle]

I don't see Southwest's "bags fly free" going anywhere anytime soon. They don't allow their fares to be on 3rd party booking sites so they don't have to worry about people clicking the lowest price on a list, and it's a great marketing point for people pissed off at paying bag fees on other airlines.

[Dr Frankenstein]

If Canada has a similar program, I didn't get covered by it on the flights I had to go through security (Montreal-Kuujjuaq, Kuujjuaq-Iqaluit, Yellowknife-Toronto via Edmonton, Toronto-DCA in 2014, Halifax-Goose Bay and back in 2013).

I think only Nexus members get expedited security in Canada, unless there's another program that I'm not aware of.

[Pete from Boston]

This is a good time to bring up the point best made by Louis CK — you sit in a chair and you sail at hundreds of miles per hour through the sky like a god.  Whatever you went through wasn't that bad.  You were not forced to swap fluids with a stranger, you were not stripped naked and beaten, you weren't even deprived of any of your so-called rights.  You were inconvenienced for a relatively short period of time, and in exchange received a service that was nothing less than incredible. 

The complaints that go around about the miserable experience of flying are the textbook definition of a first-world problem.

http://youtu.be/b3dYS7PcAG4

[formulanone]

Pre-Check is awesome! So is Nexus! And you know what both programs are? Both are basically requiring you to "apply" for the ability to be treated the way you were pre-9/11. Although I object to the concept in principle, in the world that we are in today, I don't see any reasonable alternative. But the whole system is basically based on a presumption of guilt, and "prove you are not a bad guy" (via enrollment in Pre-Check or Nexus) rather than the government having to prove that you are a bad guy.

Good you put "apply" in quotes.  The three flights from U.S. airports I took this year (DCA-SAN via DFW, SAN-IAD via MDW, DCA-YUL), i got Pre-Checked without having to lift a finger.  And it's not like I'm a frequent air traveler, either, so I don't know how anyone got the idea I'm trustworthy.

I got it in 2012 through Delta, around when they (along with other majors) through their hubs. Unfortunately, that means I only get it on through that airline. It was expanded to more airports in 2013, and handed out "randomly" on occasion to some less-frequent passengers starting in January 2014.

I've noticed many more passengers over the age of 50-55 seemed to qualify more often than younger passengers, although I've seen parents with young children also qualify (at random, although I think this is out of convenience, since children under 12 don't have to use body scanners nor take off shoes).

So yes, it's possible in even busy airports to enter through the front ticketing entrance to your gate in 5-10 minutes, if the airport is small enough or off-peak. Monday mornings at HSV can be 5-20 minutes for the first flight of the day, and I've had 5-10 minute waits at LAX and JFK at best thanks to Pre-Check. Worst was New Orleans and Chicago-Midway...they both seemed to be unprepared and understaffed at busy moments. Could have just been a bad day.

[oscar]

Pre-Check is awesome! So is Nexus! And you know what both programs are? Both are basically requiring you to "apply" for the ability to be treated the way you were pre-9/11. Although I object to the concept in principle, in the world that we are in today, I don't see any reasonable alternative. But the whole system is basically based on a presumption of guilt, and "prove you are not a bad guy" (via enrollment in Pre-Check or Nexus) rather than the government having to prove that you are a bad guy.

Good you put "apply" in quotes.  The three flights from U.S. airports I took this year (DCA-SAN via DFW, SAN-IAD via MDW, DCA-YUL), i got Pre-Checked without having to lift a finger.  And it's not like I'm a frequent air traveler, either, so I don't know how anyone got the idea I'm trustworthy.

I got it in 2012 through Delta, around when they (along with other majors) through their hubs. Unfortunately, that means I only get it on through that airline. It was expanded to more airports in 2013, and handed out "randomly" on occasion to some less-frequent passengers starting in January 2014.

I've noticed many more passengers over the age of 50-55 seemed to qualify more often than younger passengers, although I've seen parents with young children also qualify (at random, although I think this is out of convenience, since children under 12 don't have to use body scanners nor take off shoes).

Since my three flights in 2014 out of U.S. airports were on three different airlines (American, Southwest, Air Canada), I probably didn't get Pre-Check through an airline.  I am over 55, and maybe that plus luck of the draw was enough to get me a gimme from TSA.

[realjd]

I don't see Southwest's "bags fly free" going anywhere anytime soon. They don't allow their fares to be on 3rd party booking sites so they don't have to worry about people clicking the lowest price on a list, and it's a great marketing point for people pissed off at paying bag fees on other airlines.

Southwest doesn't allow their prices to be listed in third party websites largely so people wont realize that they aren't cheaper than other airlines anymore and haven't been for a number of years.

[roadman]

So I have to pay to check a bag - which is a necessity for travel.  But the 800 channels of crappy TV at the seats is free - although it is not a necessity for travel.  Am I the only one who sees something wrong here.

[J N Winkler]

Aside from picking up/dropping off a rental car, the last time I even set foot in an airport was when Mom and I dropped off or picked up Dad from one of his business trips in the mid 90s, back when security was just a metal detector at the terminal (rather than a checkpoint with naked body scanners and "enhanced" "patdowns" [read: sexual assault], etc. just to get past the lobby) and nobody needed the permission from anyone to get to the boarding area if they weren't getting on the plane.

In the US, the "enhanced patdown" is normally used only when a passenger refuses to go through the full-body scanner.  In other countries such as Britain, where the TSA "enhanced patdown" is not used because it is considered sexual assault, there is no option to refuse full-body scanning.

The last time I underwent a patdown was actually not at a US airport, but at Heathrow immediately before a flight to the US.  One aspect of security theater that is not usually mentioned in the US media is that we assert extraterritorial jurisdiction by requiring a secondary security inspection for US-bound flights.  In Britain this means additional security screening at the gate, without X-ray machines, metal detectors, or full-body scanners (which are used at the primary checkpoints you must pass to go airside), but with full fingertip inspection of carry-on luggage and a patdown that stops short of contact with the genitals or breasts.

I don't mind the idea of small seats (in fact, I like small, cramped spaces); it's being crammed in with complete strangers that gets me.  I find extended periods with people I don't know to be rather draining.

I wonder if movie theaters raise a similar difficulty for you.  I am an introvert, but it is not being in shared spaces with hundreds of other people that I find draining about air travel, since it is very rare that I encounter anyone who is not absolutely respectful of others' personal space or desire to be left alone.  For me the mental fatigue comes mostly from having to be constantly aware of my carry-on luggage, which on transatlantic flights generally includes my computer equipment (one or two laptops plus at least one mass storage device) since it cannot safely be packed in checked luggage.  Theft is always a worry with data equipment, but the real headaches come from maneuvering in and out of toilet stalls while minimizing the contact luggage, coats, etc. have with the floor around the toilet.

In the 10 years or so I was flying transatlantically at least once a year, there was only one flight where I nearly sat next to a Chatty Cathy.  She was an older woman and the flight was from Chicago to London.  I had my plane book in hand and when she started talking and saw I was reading my book, she decided to move one row forward, next to a somewhat younger woman travelling on a Pakistani passport.  I could see her only through the narrow gap between the seats in front, but her head was bobbing up and down (the way some people's do when they talk) for the entirety of that eight-hour flight:  that level of stamina is astonishing and I suspect it came largely from nervousness.

The internet - where every complaint from the holiday/annual vacation-only travelers with no Pre Check, frequent flier bonuses, etc. gets aired out.  Obviously if I ever needed to fly I wouldn't have any of those things that would help make the experience more pleasant.  And as an introvert, the idea of any means of transit where I have to come into contact with other people will automatically be rated lower than driving as a given.  Plus reading about all the TSA stuff is enough to consider the whole process humiliating (FYI, my threshold for that is likely to be lower than for most people).

There are some special reasons it is hellish to travel over the holidays.  Fares are expensive, load factors are super close to 100%, terminals are quite congested, and the stakes and stress are quite high since a delay or cancellation often means missing family holiday festivities.  Flying is much less stressful for leisure travellers who leave themselves free to fly midweek, when fares and load factors tend to be much lower.

I personally prefer to drive, but I wouldn't want to limit myself to that mode of transport.  Aside from its putting destinations outside North America out of reach, "flyover" driving--the long-distance, high-speed driving you have to do along mostly familiar roads in order to reach the areas of scenic interest you want to see--tends to offer a much lower return in terms of satisfaction.  When I travelled from Wichita to Seattle to visit an old friend, I had to scrape the barrel (and ask on here) for routes that were reasonably on the way that I hadn't already seen during previous trips.  I didn't mind the four days it took to reach Seattle or the two days it took to get back to Wichita once I finished my sightseeing, since I had the leisure to take an extended West Coast vacation.  However, the next time I make a trip for the express purpose of seeing my friend in Seattle, I suspect it will be by air.

[jeffandnicole]

I don't see Southwest's "bags fly free" going anywhere anytime soon. They don't allow their fares to be on 3rd party booking sites so they don't have to worry about people clicking the lowest price on a list, and it's a great marketing point for people pissed off at paying bag fees on other airlines.

Southwest doesn't allow their prices to be listed in third party websites largely so people wont realize that they aren't cheaper than other airlines anymore and haven't been for a number of years.

Well, anyone who does a simple price comparison would realize that.  If someone is a Southwest diehard, they won't find out.  But that's true of any airline...if I only used United.com, I wouldn't know what the other airlines fares are either.

But, there can be deals to be had on Southwest.  Last year, I flew in January to Vegas from Philly for $163 r/t...and the price actually dropped to $153 after I booked (I got the $10 credit for the change, but never had a chance to use it).  Like anything else, gotta be patient, and/or jump on an unexpected price drop when the opportunity presents itself.

[algorerhythms]

But, there can be deals to be had on Southwest.  Last year, I flew in January to Vegas from Philly for $163 r/t...and the price actually dropped to $153 after I booked (I got the $10 credit for the change, but never had a chance to use it).  Like anything else, gotta be patient, and/or jump on an unexpected price drop when the opportunity presents itself.

I was pleasantly surprised to check Southwest's site several weeks ago and find I could fly home for Christmas (OKC-DCA) for $182 round trip. I had been expecting to spend around $300.

[vdeane]

Southwest doesn't allow their prices to be listed in third party websites largely so people wont realize that they aren't cheaper than other airlines anymore and haven't been for a number of years.

How is that even legal?  I thought being able to compare prices was one of the central tenants of the free market capitalist system we claim to love!

This is a good time to bring up the point best made by Louis CK — you sit in a chair and you sail at hundreds of miles per hour through the sky like a god.  Whatever you went through wasn't that bad.  You were not forced to swap fluids with a stranger, you were not stripped naked and beaten, you weren't even deprived of any of your so-called rights.  You were inconvenienced for a relatively short period of time, and in exchange received a service that was nothing less than incredible. 

The complaints that go around about the miserable experience of flying are the textbook definition of a first-world problem.

http://youtu.be/b3dYS7PcAG4

Hey, just because you don't have issues with naked body scanners or "enhanced" pat-downs because no bodily fluid is exchanged doesn't mean it's not the same with everyone else.  There are NUMEROUS stories of people with disabilities, recovering from rape/sexual assault, or are transgender that have numerous issues.

Aside from picking up/dropping off a rental car, the last time I even set foot in an airport was when Mom and I dropped off or picked up Dad from one of his business trips in the mid 90s, back when security was just a metal detector at the terminal (rather than a checkpoint with naked body scanners and "enhanced" "patdowns" [read: sexual assault], etc. just to get past the lobby) and nobody needed the permission from anyone to get to the boarding area if they weren't getting on the plane.

In the US, the "enhanced patdown" is normally used only when a passenger refuses to go through the full-body scanner.  In other countries such as Britain, where the TSA "enhanced patdown" is not used because it is considered sexual assault, there is no option to refuse full-body scanning.

The last time I underwent a patdown was actually not at a US airport, but at Heathrow immediately before a flight to the US.  One aspect of security theater that is not usually mentioned in the US media is that we assert extraterritorial jurisdiction by requiring a secondary security inspection for US-bound flights.  In Britain this means additional security screening at the gate, without X-ray machines, metal detectors, or full-body scanners (which are used at the primary checkpoints you must pass to go airside), but with full fingertip inspection of carry-on luggage and a patdown that stops short of contact with the genitals or breasts.

I don't mind the idea of small seats (in fact, I like small, cramped spaces); it's being crammed in with complete strangers that gets me.  I find extended periods with people I don't know to be rather draining.

I wonder if movie theaters raise a similar difficulty for you.  I am an introvert, but it is not being in shared spaces with hundreds of other people that I find draining about air travel, since it is very rare that I encounter anyone who is not absolutely respectful of others' personal space or desire to be left alone.  For me the mental fatigue comes mostly from having to be constantly aware of my carry-on luggage, which on transatlantic flights generally includes my computer equipment (one or two laptops plus at least one mass storage device) since it cannot safely be packed in checked luggage.  Theft is always a worry with data equipment, but the real headaches come from maneuvering in and out of toilet stalls while minimizing the contact luggage, coats, etc. have with the floor around the toilet.

In the 10 years or so I was flying transatlantically at least once a year, there was only one flight where I nearly sat next to a Chatty Cathy.  She was an older woman and the flight was from Chicago to London.  I had my plane book in hand and when she started talking and saw I was reading my book, she decided to move one row forward, next to a somewhat younger woman travelling on a Pakistani passport.  I could see her only through the narrow gap between the seats in front, but her head was bobbing up and down (the way some people's do when they talk) for the entirety of that eight-hour flight:  that level of stamina is astonishing and I suspect it came largely from nervousness.

The internet - where every complaint from the holiday/annual vacation-only travelers with no Pre Check, frequent flier bonuses, etc. gets aired out.  Obviously if I ever needed to fly I wouldn't have any of those things that would help make the experience more pleasant.  And as an introvert, the idea of any means of transit where I have to come into contact with other people will automatically be rated lower than driving as a given.  Plus reading about all the TSA stuff is enough to consider the whole process humiliating (FYI, my threshold for that is likely to be lower than for most people).

There are some special reasons it is hellish to travel over the holidays.  Fares are expensive, load factors are super close to 100%, terminals are quite congested, and the stakes and stress are quite high since a delay or cancellation often means missing family holiday festivities.  Flying is much less stressful for leisure travellers who leave themselves free to fly midweek, when fares and load factors tend to be much lower.

I personally prefer to drive, but I wouldn't want to limit myself to that mode of transport.  Aside from its putting destinations outside North America out of reach, "flyover" driving--the long-distance, high-speed driving you have to do along mostly familiar roads in order to reach the areas of scenic interest you want to see--tends to offer a much lower return in terms of satisfaction.  When I travelled from Wichita to Seattle to visit an old friend, I had to scrape the barrel (and ask on here) for routes that were reasonably on the way that I hadn't already seen during previous trips.  I didn't mind the four days it took to reach Seattle or the two days it took to get back to Wichita once I finished my sightseeing, since I had the leisure to take an extended West Coast vacation.  However, the next time I make a trip for the express purpose of seeing my friend in Seattle, I suspect it will be by air.

Interesting thing about the pat-down... the "enhanced" part came about at the same time the body scanners did.  Basically, it was specifically designed to reduce the number of people who opted out of the body scanners.

I haven't had that issue with movie theaters in the times I've gone, but that's always been with my parents, and always during less crowded times.  Having a buffer of empty seats helps, as does something to make it feel less like I'm under a microscope.  Part of my issue is that I'm very self conscious - the other is that my emotions are so deep that I can't 100% ignore other people; I'm always in tune, at least a little bit.

[PHLBOS]

Southwest doesn't allow their prices to be listed in third party websites largely so people wont realize that they aren't cheaper than other airlines anymore and haven't been for a number of years.

How is that even legal?  I thought being able to compare prices was one of the central tenants of the free market capitalist system we claim to love!

I'm not 100% sure but I believe that airlines pay third-party sites (like Orbitz, Expedia, Travelocity, etc.) to advertise and sell their tickets.  OTOH, Southwest (one of the first airlines to sell tickets directly on-line might I add) does not sell nor pay the fore-mentioned 3rd-party companies to advertise nor sell their tickets mainly for cost reasons.  Airlines are not mandated to advertise nor sell tickets via 3rd-party sites.

Long story short; no front money for 3rd-party ticket sales, no advertisement nor sale of tickets via said-3rd-party.  It's as simple as that and 100% perfectly legal.

So I have to pay to check a bag - which is a necessity for travel.  But the 800 channels of crappy TV at the seats is free - although it is not a necessity for travel.  Am I the only one who sees something wrong here.

I hear you on that one.  However, (playing devil's advocate for one moment) there have been times I've flown (mostly for short, weekend trips) where I have traveled with just a carry-on bag... even before the baggage fee crap started.

A few years back when Sen. Schumer (D-NY) grilled the CEO of Sprit Airlines for charging for the use of their overhead bins; the CEO's reply to the Senator was that carry-ons were not essential.  If one can stuff their carry-on underneath the seat in front of them; then it's not subject to a fee.

Along with Spirit; Allegiant and even Frontier* now charge for using the overhead bins to store carry-ons in addition to charging for checked luggage.

*IIRC, if one books a Frontier flight directly from their website; they're not charged a fee for using the overhead bins.

FYI, Airline fee cheat sheet updated as of 9/20/14

On the subject of baggage fees; a recent reports state that airlines have collected $Billions in fees (including the much-hated checked bag charge).  It's also worth noting that, unlike ticket fares which are taxed (roughly $30-35 total for a domestic round-trip ticket); fees are not taxed.

If it's discovered that the airlines are making a higher percentage of money on fees than they are on actual airfares; the IRS & Congress will certainly take notice. 

[realjd]

Southwest doesn't allow their prices to be listed in third party websites largely so people wont realize that they aren't cheaper than other airlines anymore and haven't been for a number of years.

How is that even legal?  I thought being able to compare prices was one of the central tenants of the free market capitalist system we claim to love!

Delta, United, et. al. publish their fares through various GDS systems. These systems let travel agents browse fares and routes and allow them to book plane tickets directly. Expedia, Travelocity, and other travel websites tie into the GDS systems to list and sell tickets. Southwest decided not to tie into a GDS. They only sell tickets directly. Because the fares are only published on their website and the only avenue for buying a ticket is through their website or over the phone, they aren't listed on the big travel websites.

As for the body scanners, the new models don't generate naked pictures anymore. The scanner detects any anomalies automatically. All the TSA clerk sees is a green "OK" if nothing is detected or an indication of where to look if something was seen by the scanner. They're still ineffective security theater, but the privacy implications are largely resolved. Same for the medical concerns; the TSA got rid of the backscatter machines that blasted people with X-Rays and went solely to the millimeter wave machines that use very low power RF energy in a similar frequency band to that used by automatic doors and police radar guns.

[jeffandnicole]

Southwest doesn't allow their prices to be listed in third party websites largely so people wont realize that they aren't cheaper than other airlines anymore and haven't been for a number of years.

How is that even legal?  I thought being able to compare prices was one of the central tenants of the free market capitalist system we claim to love!

RealJD was referring to a quick comparison, which is what Expedia, Orbitz, etc offers. You are certainly welcome to make your own comparisons.  Even when one of the oblique websites shows fares, it's wise to check the fares on the actual airline's website, where you may find a better deal. 

But no one is required to post their prices on some 3rd party website, regardless of what they have available to sell.

[doorknob60]

My understanding is that the TSA is under some kind of congressional pressure to pass a certain minimum percentage of passengers through Pre Check lines. And since the number of travelers voluntarily signing up for Pre hasn't met expectations, they've been diverting regular passengers into Pre. My impression is that this practice has declined somewhat, because it hasn't been an issue in any of my October or November flights.

Not sure if it's declined at all. At least my last 2 or 3 times flying (once in late November, once in early September for sure), this has happened to me, maybe more. It catches me off guard sometimes. I specifically note that my ticket doesn't say Pre-Check on it (I've had that once though, not sure how; all the same airline and I use the same frequent flier account every time), and then the TSA agent just points and says "go over there", sometimes not even mentioning that it's a Pre-Check line. I need to pay extra attention when I go through security now to see which type of line I'm in.

[Kacie Jane]

Southwest doesn't allow their prices to be listed in third party websites largely so people wont realize that they aren't cheaper than other airlines anymore and haven't been for a number of years.

How is that even legal?  I thought being able to compare prices was one of the central tenants of the free market capitalist system we claim to love!

I'm not 100% sure but I believe that airlines pay third-party sites (like Orbitz, Expedia, Travelocity, etc.) to advertise and sell their tickets.  OTOH, Southwest (one of the first airlines to sell tickets directly on-line might I add) does not sell nor pay the fore-mentioned 3rd-party companies to advertise nor sell their tickets mainly for cost reasons.  Airlines are not mandated to advertise nor sell tickets via 3rd-party sites.

Long story short; no front money for 3rd-party ticket sales, no advertisement nor sale of tickets via said-3rd-party.  It's as simple as that and 100% perfectly legal.

Also, they're doing absolutely nothing to stop you from comparison shopping.  You still have every right to go to their site, then Alaska's site, then someone else's site, then Orbitz, and come back to whoever has the best deal.  Orbitz and similar sites may be the easiest way to comparison shop.  They're not necessarily the best, and certainly not the only.