Toll Roads vs. Free Roads Poll and Discussion

[hotdogPi]

One word - politics.  MassDOT (and Massport and Mass. Turnpike Authority before them) have given in to similar local extortion demands and offer "resident rate" EZ-Pass transponders so people in Chelsea and East Boston can use the Tobin Bridge and Boston Harbor tunnels for next to nothing.  Of course, if those same people decide to use public transportation instead to cross the harbor, they have to pay the full transit fare.

...which begs the question:  How were the toll points on the AET design for the MassPike determined?  They appear to be set up so that the Pike could be used in certain areas for toll-free trips.

I have heard that there will be a 40¢ barrier between exit, except between those within Springfield and Worcester areas.

[SidS1045]

I have heard that there will be a 40¢ barrier between exit, except between those within Springfield and Worcester areas.

Here is a map of the proposed toll points:


If they stick with this plan, trips in the Springfield (exits 4-7), Worcester (exits 10-11) and downtown Boston (exits 21-25) areas will be free, although most of the exits in downtown Boston are one-way (E entrance/W exit, or the reverse).  Passing each toll point will cost 40¢.

[vdeane]

Why are all the toll points the same cost?  Under that plan, a trip between exits 15 and 18 would cost close to a dollar, which a much longer trip between exits 2 and 3 would be half the cost.  That makes NO sense.  Plus a trip between Albany and Boston would have 10 entries on the E-ZPass statement instead of one.  They can put the gantries in the mainline if they want, but IMO they should at least have a virtual ticket system.

[PHLBOS]

Why are all the toll points the same cost?  Under that plan, a trip between exits 15 and 18 would cost close to a dollar, which a much longer trip between exits 2 and 3 would be half the cost.  That makes NO sense.

Current toll between Exits 15 & 18: $2.50 ($1.25 collected at Exit 15 (I-95/MA 128) and another $1.25 at the Allston Plaza/Exit 18 (eastbound)/20 (westbound))

Current toll between Exits 2 & 3: $1.05 (until recently, the toll between these 2 plazas was zero)

The Boston Extension (between I-95 and I-93) of the Pike has always had a higher cost.  Just like the NJ Turnpike tolls north of the Garden State Parkway (Exit 11) are higher than the tolls south of the GSP.

Plus a trip between Albany and Boston would have 10 entries on the E-ZPass statement instead of one.  They can put the gantries in the mainline if they want, but IMO they should at least have a virtual ticket system.

My understanding is that these new gantries along the mainline will replace the existing interchange toll plazas (aka the ticket system).

As far as the numerous gantries for longer Turnpike trips is concerned, since these are not traditional toll booths where one has to stop; why would a user care about how many legitimate toll entries that appear on their statement(s)?

BTW, at present when one gets on I-90 in East Boston and heads west towards Albany; they pass through 4 gantries/plazas (Ted williams Tunnel/Allston Plaza/Weston (beginning of ticket system)/Stockbridge (end of ticket system)) by the time they exit the Bay State.

[SignGeek101]

I'm quite frugal in real life. So, naturally, for roads I would take the cheaper one, even if it's a little bit slower.
Of course, if I have to get somewhere quickly, then I'll take the toll road.

[jwolfer]

I live near Orlando and the toll roads can be expensive. I 4 is the only freeway that is not tolled. The Sunpass transponder is convenient. But I have friends who between 2 of them going to work and back have $90 toll bill per month. For someone Living pay check to paycheck that is a big chunk. And lits of people avoid the tolls.. I-4 is always congested.. Not  417 or 408..( as an aside the toll roads are called on traffic reports like they are in LA.. The 408.. Etc.. I don't like)

[roadman65]

I live near Orlando and the toll roads can be expensive. I 4 is the only freeway that is not tolled. The Sunpass transponder is convenient. But I have friends who between 2 of them going to work and back have $90 toll bill per month. For someone Living pay check to paycheck that is a big chunk. And lits of people avoid the tolls.. I-4 is always congested.. Not  417 or 408..( as an aside the toll roads are called on traffic reports like they are in LA.. The 408.. Etc.. I don't like)

Except for the 528 which is called "The Beachline" and never by its number. Even considering that the Beachline name is not signed at all along it with the one mile guide for it on FL 417 being the only mention along with a supplemental guide on the SB FL TPK at the Sand Lake Road overpass, it is still called that particular name.

[SidS1045]

a trip between Albany and Boston would have 10 entries on the E-ZPass statement instead of one.

I count 13 toll points between the NY line and Boston, 14 if you go all the way to the end of I-90 near Logan Airport.  One thing I haven't been able to find out is how each toll point passed will be billed (individually or by date), but as PHLBOS pointed out, who cares?

And, PHLBOS, you are correct: All tolls will be collected electronically on the mainline of the Pike only.  Part of the appropriation for the project includes money to demolish the barrier and ramp toll booths and attached buildings, and reconfigure the traffic lanes in those areas to eliminate the widening where the booths were and the subsequent merges...good news for those who pass interchanges 14-15 and 18-19-20 every day, as these are massive choke points during rush hours.  The ramp to interchange 9 also backs up on the day before most major holidays.

[PHLBOS]

good news for those who pass interchanges 14-15 and 18-19-20 every day, as these are massive choke points during rush hours.

Since there are plans to reconfigure 18/19/20; an ideal situation would be to time the erection/implementation of AET concurrently with that project. 

The ramp to interchange 9 also backs up on the day before most major holidays.

It's also backed up there (and along I-84 eastbound approaching I-90) during peak holiday travel times.

[vdeane]

Well, I care if I have 20 million entries on my E-ZPass statement from one trip, none of which conform to NYSTA's standard format (the statement is designed for ticket systems; barrier tolls have to be shoehorned in with blank exit information).  I'm not sure what you mean "by date"; all the tolls I've ever dealt with were either straight barrier or ticket, and the 40 cents/barrier system precludes a virtual ticket system where it guesses your entry and exit points based on the barriers passed.

[SidS1045]

I'm not sure what you mean "by date"; all the tolls I've ever dealt with were either straight barrier or ticket, and the 40 cents/barrier system precludes a virtual ticket system where it guesses your entry and exit points based on the barriers passed.

It certainly requires a re-think of the concept of tolling in general (in the past, the usual formula is so many cents per mile), because in MA (and, I suspect, many more jurisdictions as time goes on) tolls will no longer be collected at exits and the proposed tolling points are not separated by a set distance.  (As I recall, the MassPike AET project is expected to pay for itself in about five years, based mostly on the savings in manpower, so it will inevitably be an attractive alternative in other jurisdictions which collect tolls.)  As I stated, I have no information on the details of how billing will be done, so I can't say how NYSTA and other members of the E-ZPass IAG will bill MassPike usage.

What I mean by "by date" was:  It's possible they will list all tolls collected on one day on one line in the statement.  As you pointed out, listing one toll-point passage per line makes for a longer bill.  But whichever method they use, it should add up to the same amount.

[1995hoo]

....

What I mean by "by date" was:  It's possible they will list all tolls collected on one day on one line in the statement.  As you pointed out, listing one toll-point passage per line makes for a longer bill.  But whichever method they use, it should add up to the same amount.

That's certainly possible. That's the system being used on the new I-95 express lanes in Virginia. The reversible lanes are divided into multiple "segments" (two northbound, three southbound) and the toll rate for each segment is different, but it shows up as a single transaction on your E-ZPass statement because the system adds the rates together into a single charge (e.g., if the southern segment is $4.75 and the northern segment is $2.10, instead of two transactions for those amounts appearing on your statement you see a single transaction for $6.85). I suspect this may be part of the reason why it takes a week for the toll charge to post.

The issue of one aggregated transaction versus individual transactions is probably all the more important for people who don't have the appropriate transponder because it conceivably makes a difference in what sort of surcharge you might face–if there's a per-transaction surcharge, it can make a huge difference if they aggregate a whole trip into one transaction and impose one surcharge versus charging a separate surcharge for each of ten gantries. (Again citing the Virginia example, it's a huge distinction because they charge you $12.50 per trip if they send you a bill in the mail. If each segment were a separate toll charge, someone without an E-ZPass could conceivably be socked with $62.50 in service charges, on top of the tolls, for a single day's roundtrip commute–$12.50 times 5 segments! $25 in service charges for one day's commute isn't trivial either, but it's a lot less than $62.50.)

[Brandon]

I'm not sure what you mean "by date"; all the tolls I've ever dealt with were either straight barrier or ticket, and the 40 cents/barrier system precludes a virtual ticket system where it guesses your entry and exit points based on the barriers passed.

It certainly requires a re-think of the concept of tolling in general (in the past, the usual formula is so many cents per mile), because in MA (and, I suspect, many more jurisdictions as time goes on) tolls will no longer be collected at exits and the proposed tolling points are not separated by a set distance.  (As I recall, the MassPike AET project is expected to pay for itself in about five years, based mostly on the savings in manpower, so it will inevitably be an attractive alternative in other jurisdictions which collect tolls.)  As I stated, I have no information on the details of how billing will be done, so I can't say how NYSTA and other members of the E-ZPass IAG will bill MassPike usage.

What I mean by "by date" was:  It's possible they will list all tolls collected on one day on one line in the statement.  As you pointed out, listing one toll-point passage per line makes for a longer bill.  But whichever method they use, it should add up to the same amount.

ISTHA will probably show it like they do their current barrier system.  That's how they show the ticket turnpikes to the east.  As an example, here's some of mine below:

Date/Time    Type    Amount    Agency    Location*    Plaza

09/19/14 10:32 PM     TOLL       ($0.95)    ISTHA     Plz 89-Boughton Rd Mainline-Ln 54     89          
09/22/14 03:43 PM     TOLL       ($6.00)    MDTA     Plz WPL-Lane Memorial Br-Ln 11     WPL          
09/22/14 05:45 PM     TOLL       ($1.00)    DELDOT     Plz 020-Dover Plaza-Ln 41     020          
09/22/14 05:53 PM     TOLL       $0.25    DELDOT     Plz 022-South Smyrna Ramp-Ln 4     022          
09/22/14 06:04 PM     TOLL       ($0.25)    DELDOT     Plz 022-South Smyrna Ramp-Ln 4     022          
09/22/14 06:21 PM     TOLL       ($1.00)    DELDOT     Plz 030-Biddles Plaza-Ln 10     030          
09/22/14 07:07 PM     TOLL       ($2.15)    NJTP     Plz -Woodbury/S. Camden/NJ Aquarium-Ln 07X               
09/22/14 07:16 PM     TOLL       ($5.00)    DRPA     Plz -Walt Whitman Br-Ln 04W               
09/22/14 09:29 PM     TOLL       ($6.21)    PTC     Plz -Harrisburg East Shore-Ln 9               
09/23/14 11:35 AM     TOLL       ($17.60)    PTC     Plz -Warrendale-Ln 8               
09/23/14 03:27 PM     TOLL       ($0.48)    INDOT     Plz -Angola-Ln 01W               
09/23/14 04:11 PM     TOLL       ($11.50)    OTIC     Plz 2-Westgate-Ln 2     2          
09/23/14 05:49 PM     TOLL       ($3.73)    INDOT     Plz -Portage-Ln 01W               
09/23/14 06:29 PM     TOLL       ($0.55)    ISTHA     Plz 43-I-80 West-Ln 53     43

* Any lane beginning with a 5 or 6 indicates that the lane is an Open Road Tolling Lane (ISTHA only)

I notice that some of the eastern turnpikes do not have plaza numbers.

[UCFKnights]

....

What I mean by "by date" was:  It's possible they will list all tolls collected on one day on one line in the statement.  As you pointed out, listing one toll-point passage per line makes for a longer bill.  But whichever method they use, it should add up to the same amount.

That's certainly possible. That's the system being used on the new I-95 express lanes in Virginia. The reversible lanes are divided into multiple "segments" (two northbound, three southbound) and the toll rate for each segment is different, but it shows up as a single transaction on your E-ZPass statement because the system adds the rates together into a single charge (e.g., if the southern segment is $4.75 and the northern segment is $2.10, instead of two transactions for those amounts appearing on your statement you see a single transaction for $6.85). I suspect this may be part of the reason why it takes a week for the toll charge to post.

The issue of one aggregated transaction versus individual transactions is probably all the more important for people who don't have the appropriate transponder because it conceivably makes a difference in what sort of surcharge you might face–if there's a per-transaction surcharge, it can make a huge difference if they aggregate a whole trip into one transaction and impose one surcharge versus charging a separate surcharge for each of ten gantries. (Again citing the Virginia example, it's a huge distinction because they charge you $12.50 per trip if they send you a bill in the mail. If each segment were a separate toll charge, someone without an E-ZPass could conceivably be socked with $62.50 in service charges, on top of the tolls, for a single day's roundtrip commute–$12.50 times 5 segments! $25 in service charges for one day's commute isn't trivial either, but it's a lot less than $62.50.)

I'd imagine with any AET system, the service charges are generally per month, not per day and absolutely not per transaction, that would be insane (not counting them sometimes giving discounts for being a member of the program)

[DeaconG]

I live near Orlando and the toll roads can be expensive. I 4 is the only freeway that is not tolled. The Sunpass transponder is convenient. But I have friends who between 2 of them going to work and back have $90 toll bill per month. For someone Living pay check to paycheck that is a big chunk. And lits of people avoid the tolls.. I-4 is always congested.. Not  417 or 408..( as an aside the toll roads are called on traffic reports like they are in LA.. The 408.. Etc.. I don't like)

No duh.  Mine is $140 a month and that's JUST the Bee...I mean the Beachline.
I could drop that down to $100 if I took the East-West to I-4 but the widening of SR 50 on the east side and the resulting traffic is a nightmare...with at least another year or two to go before it's done.
I can barely afford it, but not having a job to go to to get food, water, internet or power is the issue.

[1995hoo]

I'd imagine with any AET system, the service charges are generally per month, not per day and absolutely not per transaction, that would be insane (not counting them sometimes giving discounts for being a member of the program)

That's why it depends on where you are. I've already noted one place where it's per trip, meaning you can incur multiple service charges per day.

[PHLBOS]

Well, I care if I have 20 million entries on my E-ZPass statement from one trip, none of which conform to NYSTA's standard format (the statement is designed for ticket systems; barrier tolls have to be shoehorned in with blank exit information).

2 things:

1.  The Mass Pike AETs are still in the planning or design stage and, hence, aren't erected yet.

2.  No offense, based on where you reside & work; you're not a regular user of the Mass Pike and have (guess on my part) seldom used any of it let alone its entire length.

That said, why should you personally care about how numerous Mass Pike toll entries appear on your statement if you're not using the road?

[vdeane]

2.  No offense, based on where you reside & work; you're not a regular user of the Mass Pike and have (guess on my part) seldom used any of it let alone its entire length.

That said, why should you personally care about how numerous Mass Pike toll entries appear on your statement if you're not using the road?

I have been on the entire ticket system, though I've never driven it (family vacation to Boston and a field trip to Cape Cod; I've been on all of it west of I-95).  My 2015 road trip plans will bring me on the Mass Pike west of Springfield and I imagine I'll be seeing it more often in the future as my non-NY, non-meet travel bucket list is oriented mostly towards New England/eastern Canada.

So yes, it will be appearing on some of my statements in the future.  Also, I tend to personally care about everything; for me, there isn't even a differentiation of personal vs. not personal with respect to how my emotions respond!

[PHLBOS]

My 2015 road trip plans will bring me on the Mass Pike west of Springfield

Based on the earlier-posted graphic, one will only pass under 3 AETs for one-way trips.  3 lines on a statement (6 for a round-trip) is not a deal-breaker in the grand scheme of things.  Plus, what's not to say that NYSTA won't update/modify the format of their statements down the road as they (as well as other toll agencies) introduce AET?   

I imagine I'll be seeing it more often in the future as my non-NY, non-meet travel bucket list is oriented mostly towards New England/eastern Canada.

If the New England destinations you're planning to visit are just VT, NH and/or ME plus eastern Canada; there's absolutely no reason for somebody in your area to use the Mass Pike as a partial means of getting to those places, it's out of the way.

[vdeane]

Last I checked, the Mass Pike was the most efficient way to get to I-495/I-95 from Albany.

I'm not aware of NYSTA plans to adopt AET on the ticket system in the near future.  If there's any current plans to convert anything other than Harriman, Yonkers, and the Tappan Zee Bridge, they're not public knowledge.  I'm sure it will happen eventually, though it's worth noting there are a couple barriers that the MTA encountered that will need to be rectified for AET to be mainstream in NY: the inability to pursue Connecticut toll violators at all, and the lack of a law in NY automatically suspending the registrations of people with a significant amount of unpaid tolls.  The Thruway would also have more to adapt other things too, including the Annual Permit Program (which makes trips under 30 miles free (except the Castleton-on-Hudson Bridge) for people who pay the $88/year for the plan; it's a stand-in covering for the fact that there's no commuter plan for the ticket system).

Interestingly enough, I could have sworn that NYSTA statements used to include entry/exit lane information but I don't see that on the last statement I got.  Maybe they already changed it?

How do other agencies handle ticket systems if they don't use separate fields for the entry/exit plaza dates/times?

[hotdogPi]

Last I checked, the Mass Pike was the most efficient way to get to I-495/I-95 from Albany.

However, if going north on I-495, NY/MA 2 has three advantages over I-90:

Shorter distance
Toll-free
Much more beautiful

[cl94]

Last I checked, the Mass Pike was the most efficient way to get to I-495/I-95 from Albany.

However, if going north on I-495, NY/MA 2 has three advantages over I-90:

Shorter distance
Toll-free
Much more beautiful

And the time difference really isn't all that much if you use 2 or VT/NH 9 because the Pike goes so far out of the way. Does it take longer? Yes. Once you get east of I-91, much of MA 2 is controlled-access.

[vdeane]

Time/distance from my apartment to Portsmouth according to Google Maps:
-I-90: 3h 31m, 227 miles
-VT 9/MA 2: 4h 3m, 213 miles
-VT/NH 9: 3h 55m, 201 miles

[cl94]

Time/distance from my apartment to Portsmouth according to Google Maps:
-I-90: 3h 31m, 227 miles
-VT 9/MA 2: 4h 3m, 213 miles
-VT/NH 9: 3h 55m, 201 miles

If you're going to Portsmouth, you'd save time by taking the Pike from Albany because it's a straight shot. But if you're going to Manchester or somewhere else that isn't right along I-95 or I-495 south of Portland, you're talking 10-15 added minutes tops, with 9 possibly taking less time. And once your starting point in New York gets north of Malta, the Pike is slower for anything in New Hampshire or north. As your mileage would remain constant and speeds would be more efficient, you might actually spend less for gas by taking 2 or 9.

[jeffandnicole]

....

What I mean by "by date" was:  It's possible they will list all tolls collected on one day on one line in the statement.  As you pointed out, listing one toll-point passage per line makes for a longer bill.  But whichever method they use, it should add up to the same amount.

That's certainly possible. That's the system being used on the new I-95 express lanes in Virginia. The reversible lanes are divided into multiple "segments" (two northbound, three southbound) and the toll rate for each segment is different, but it shows up as a single transaction on your E-ZPass statement because the system adds the rates together into a single charge (e.g., if the southern segment is $4.75 and the northern segment is $2.10, instead of two transactions for those amounts appearing on your statement you see a single transaction for $6.85). I suspect this may be part of the reason why it takes a week for the toll charge to post.

The issue of one aggregated transaction versus individual transactions is probably all the more important for people who don't have the appropriate transponder because it conceivably makes a difference in what sort of surcharge you might face–if there's a per-transaction surcharge, it can make a huge difference if they aggregate a whole trip into one transaction and impose one surcharge versus charging a separate surcharge for each of ten gantries. (Again citing the Virginia example, it's a huge distinction because they charge you $12.50 per trip if they send you a bill in the mail. If each segment were a separate toll charge, someone without an E-ZPass could conceivably be socked with $62.50 in service charges, on top of the tolls, for a single day's roundtrip commute–$12.50 times 5 segments! $25 in service charges for one day's commute isn't trivial either, but it's a lot less than $62.50.)

I'd imagine with any AET system, the service charges are generally per month, not per day and absolutely not per transaction, that would be insane (not counting them sometimes giving discounts for being a member of the program)

In Florida, the AET toll roads are transponder or pay-by-mail. They charge a single fee per month.

On many systems in the Northeast, toll roads such as the HO/T lanes are EZ Pass only. Each time you use the road without an EZ Pass, you are fined. The lanes are well signed as well, so it's not like one could claim they didn't know, as entering the lanes would mean they saw the signs as to the lanes' purpose. One even needs to merge over to get into the lanes.