The CT, MA, RI and ME highway shield

[Zeffy]

These four states have one thing in common - they all have a square/rectangle for their state highway shield. The problem is that these states are decently close to eachother (Maine being the exception since it's separated from Massachusetts by Vermont and New Hampshire), and I noticed that there are very... subtle differences on their shields that sometimes the general public wouldn't notice. How does this not induce confusion? For comparison, here are the 4 state route shields (CT, RI, MA, and ME) that I whipped up:



So, let's see. Connecticut has a thicker border around it's shield. Rhode Island incorporated the letters "R.I." above the numerals. Massachusetts and Maine have no difference whatsoever (that I could tell).

Ready for the kicker? To add to even more confusion, Rhode Island apparently used the exact same style that Massachusetts used based by this picture:



As an average motorist, I can't imagine differentiating between the 3 shields of CT, RI and MA if I wasn't paying special attention. I'd probably be the last person to realize that Connecticut shields have a thicker border. The only one that is fairly obvious is Rhode Island's state initials above the numerals, but even then, some people could miss those (esp. at highway speed) and confuse them with it's two neighboring states.

Just curious on the thoughts of any residents of the 4 states I listed - do you think there is some confusion amongst the general public between these shields, or are there clear enough differences (or in Massachusetts and Maine's case - distances) between them to clearly identify them as belonging to their respective state?

For example, New Jersey and Delaware both use the standard circle marker. We also border each other. The only difference I noticed was on overhead signs, where Delaware doesn't have the black backing behind the shield, while we do (not for long if FHWA keeps being dicks about it!). The only way to differentiate is the fact that you can't just silently cross into Delaware (or New Jersey) - you physically have to cross a body of water via a bridge to do so, and there are definitely signs telling you that you entered a different state.

[spooky]

Why would this matter? If you reached that Exit 8 sign on I-95 and weren't already aware that you are in RI, you have bigger problems than differentiating between state route markers.

[roadman]

To my knowledge, neither MassDOT nor predecessor agencies (MassHighway, MassDPW) have received any comments or complaints from the general public regarding the issue you raise.

[1995hoo]

Why would this matter? If you reached that Exit 8 sign on I-95 and weren't already aware that you are in RI, you have bigger problems than differentiating between state route markers.

I generally agree with this. I also tend to think the increasing use of sat-nav devices may make it even less of an issue than it may have been in the past, simply because the casual motorist who might be less attuned to things like state route markers or state welcome signs is probably more likely to use a sat-nav due to not having a mental road atlas.

But the bigger issue in my mind that Zeffy's comments raise is what remedy he proposes, if indeed there is a problem. States are free to select their own route marker or use the default circle marker shown in the MUTCD. If you require all states to use the circle, then arguably you're just exacerbating the problem, right? Instead of having a problem (assuming arguendo one exists) in a relatively small area of the country, you suddenly have the problem every time a road crosses a state line. So is the remedy then to require FHWA approval of state-specific markers? I don't like that idea at all. I suppose you could come up with an argument under the Interstate Commerce Clause, as it has been interpreted by the Supreme Court, that state route markers have an effect on interstate commerce such that the US government can regulate them, but just because the US government "can" legally do something doesn't mean they should.

Moreover, if the FHWA must then review and approve state-specific markers, how do you decide which of those four states gets to keep its current marker and which must change? Or do you make them all change (except maybe Maine due to being discontiguous)? Who pays for it?

[roadman65]

Why would this matter? If you reached that Exit 8 sign on I-95 and weren't already aware that you are in RI, you have bigger problems than differentiating between state route markers.

You would think so, but people nowadays have no clue to reality.  I work in a restaurant where some people cannot even figure out that the reason why a greeter at the door (which is called a host or hostess) is asking you how many in your party and is grabbing a menu for you, and yet they continue walking into the dining area looking for a seat for themselves.  Plus the PLEASE WAIT TO BE SEATED sign is present at the door.

Anyway, I have dealt with a lot of non road geeks in my time and many have no clue of simple little things like what was mentioned.  If you try to inform them how ignorant they are these people try to say that we are into something that normal people do not get into and that we are the weird ones for knowing even a little bit about roads.

My neighbor, for one, got confused crossing the 14th Street bridge in Virginia after leaving Washington, when the control city for US 1 South is Alexandria and for I-395 South is Richmond because her hotel was off of I-395.  She claimed that the "Alexandria" on the US 1 guide was misleading her because her hotel she was heading back to was in Alexandria off of an I-395 interchange.  She totally acted like the signs were implying that she had to make a choice that she could not take I-395 back to her hotel because the two were on separate signs.  She is not out of it outside of this either, but nonetheless got taken for that one moment.

You be a bit surprised at some people out there.

[KEVIN_224]

To go one further, most CT state route shields don't have the black border on them. People traveling between Enfield, CT Springfield, MA on either US Route 5 or I-91 don't seem to have a problem with the shields being nearly identical.

Better yet...the three cities and towns I've lived in all have a state route 9 going through them! (New Britain, CT now, Wells and Old Orchard Beach, ME in the past.)

[NE2]

Rhode Island only uses the neutered style on guide signs.

You're more likely to get confused by the multiple 1As in the same state than two routes with the same number in different states.

[spooky]

Rhode Island only uses the neutered style on guide signs.

and inconsistently at that, because Rhode Island.

[02 Park Ave]

Maine was part of Massachusetts for fifty years after US independence.  Maybe there is some kind of subconscious carryover in their sign design.

[spooky]

Why would this matter? If you reached that Exit 8 sign on I-95 and weren't already aware that you are in RI, you have bigger problems than differentiating between state route markers.

deleted gibberish

I think you made my point.

[hotdogPi]

There is also the occasional CT sign in Massachusetts.

And the occasional NJ sign, which is not a white square.

And the one-time Alabama sign.

[JakeFromNewEngland]

I've always wondered if CT would go back to the original shields with the state outline. Being from New England, I can tell the difference between those signs. As for RIDOT, I've always noticed they have done similar practices to MassDOT. RIDOT uses the old MassDOT style exit tabs on much of their newer signs.

[texaskdog]

Why would this matter? If you reached that Exit 8 sign on I-95 and weren't already aware that you are in RI, you have bigger problems than differentiating between state route markers.

Being from Texas I could understand being in a region where you never knew what state you were in because there are so many. Why not take pride in your state?  Minnesota has the best state highway signs.

[Pete from Boston]

Maine was part of Massachusetts for fifty years after US independence.  Maybe there is some kind of subconscious carryover in their sign design.

Keeping their options open?

This situation really just bears out the fact that Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island are really barely justified in being separate states from one another.  Maine is a whole separate bag of potatoes, but their little 200-year dalliance with autonomy will end soon enough, rendering that a moot point.

[southshore720]

Regarding the photo of that Exit 8 sign in RI...it has since been replaced in a sign replacement and the true "R.I." shields now appear.  In most (sadly, not all) of R.I.'s sign replacements, they've switched from the generic white square to the shield with the R.I. initials.  (Maybe a MUTCD requirement?)

RIDOT does get lazy though and you will see many MA-style on some BGS and trailblazers.  It all depends on the contractor.

In the Greenwich to Fairfield sign replacement project on I-95 in CT, you will note that they use the thick black border shields for the route numbers.  However, this is the only signage in the state that jumped on board.  All other new signage is using the generic white square.  One could argue that the shield is accurately represented on the disgusting button-copy signs that still exist everywhere in the state...

But I agree with the overall sentiment of the thread...the state signs should be more distinctive.  Could there ever be a change in a state's official trailblazer to make it more unique to the state?  I would imagine it's possible...expensive for sure, but possible.

[roadman65]

I take that CT does not use the CalTrans text shields anymore as I seen them use back in 1990's and early 2000's?

[jp the roadgeek]

CT and WV are exactly the same shields

The CT outline shield was only popular in Fairfield County. 



The rest of the state had shields like this that were similar to the current RI shield



I have one not too far from me that looks like this one:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.596879,-72.877669,3a,75y,180h,100.61t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1snqYf9fq-0k6t0Gm_Pxo6iw!2e0?hl=en

[NE2]

CT and WV are exactly the same shields

Are you sure? WV's border looks just a bit thicker.
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/wv/wv_72/
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ct/ct_72/

[dgolub]

The one thing that prevents this from being so much of an issue is that most motorists don't even realize that different states use different shapes.  Do you know how many people get off the Long Island Expressway (I-495) at exit 56 for NY 111 when they really want exit 70 for Suffolk CR 111?  It causes lots of people to get lost when trying to go to Montauk.  As far as I'm concerned, if two routes in different systems are in close proximity to each other, then one should be renumbered, since otherwise non-roadgeeks will get lost.

By the way, the same situation exists with New Jersey and Delaware, which also border on each other, albeit with a river in between.

[connroadgeek]

Connecticut does not use a border on BGS. It's just a white square with the route number except when button copy is used in which case it's just a hollow square. As others have mentioned, if you can't figure out what state you're in, you have bigger problems in life considering there is a huge sign at state borders plus your GPS will know. I've never once been unsure of what state I'm in. Are people really confused about what state they are traveling through just because the state route shields look similar?

[connroadgeek]

The one thing that prevents this from being so much of an issue is that most motorists don't even realize that different states use different shapes.  Do you know how many people get off the Long Island Expressway (I-495) at exit 56 for NY 111 when they really want exit 70 for Suffolk CR 111?  It causes lots of people to get lost when trying to go to Montauk.  As far as I'm concerned, if two routes in different systems are in close proximity to each other, then one should be renumbered, since otherwise non-roadgeeks will get lost.

By the way, the same situation exists with New Jersey and Delaware, which also border on each other, albeit with a river in between.

Do New England states even have county maintained roads? There's no county anything in Connecticut, how about the other five states? NY strikes me as a place with too many government layers where you have various road authorities.

[roadman65]

Look at NC near Rocky Mount along I-95 and the redundant NC NC 58 shield.  It is that way because of another route in another state over 70 miles away has another highway numbered 58.  Even though its a US route where you would think everyone would by now know the shield, they still do not.

[froggie]

Do New England states even have county maintained roads?

Maine might, but Vermont does not.

Regarding the highway shields, it might be a relic of the old New England route marking system, which predates the US routes.

[SectorZ]

The one thing that prevents this from being so much of an issue is that most motorists don't even realize that different states use different shapes.  Do you know how many people get off the Long Island Expressway (I-495) at exit 56 for NY 111 when they really want exit 70 for Suffolk CR 111?  It causes lots of people to get lost when trying to go to Montauk.  As far as I'm concerned, if two routes in different systems are in close proximity to each other, then one should be renumbered, since otherwise non-roadgeeks will get lost.

By the way, the same situation exists with New Jersey and Delaware, which also border on each other, albeit with a river in between.

Do New England states even have county maintained roads? There's no county anything in Connecticut, how about the other five states? NY strikes me as a place with too many government layers where you have various road authorities.

Technically MA doesn't even have actual counties anymore outside of just existing as paper entities.

[jwolfer]

These four states have one thing in common - they all have a square/rectangle for their state highway shield. The problem is that these states are decently close to eachother (Maine being the exception since it's separated from Massachusetts by Vermont and New Hampshire), and I noticed that there are very... subtle differences on their shields that sometimes the general public wouldn't notice. How does this not induce confusion? For comparison, here are the 4 state route shields (CT, RI, MA, and ME) that I whipped up:



So, let's see. Connecticut has a thicker border around it's shield. Rhode Island incorporated the letters "R.I." above the numerals. Massachusetts and Maine have no difference whatsoever (that I could tell).

Ready for the kicker? To add to even more confusion, Rhode Island apparently used the exact same style that Massachusetts used based by this picture:



As an average motorist, I can't imagine differentiating between the 3 shields of CT, RI and MA if I wasn't paying special attention. I'd probably be the last person to realize that Connecticut shields have a thicker border. The only one that is fairly obvious is Rhode Island's state initials above the numerals, but even then, some people could miss those (esp. at highway speed) and confuse them with it's two neighboring states.

Just curious on the thoughts of any residents of the 4 states I listed - do you think there is some confusion amongst the general public between these shields, or are there clear enough differences (or in Massachusetts and Maine's case - distances) between them to clearly identify them as belonging to their respective state?

For example, New Jersey and Delaware both use the standard circle marker. We also border each other. The only difference I noticed was on overhead signs, where Delaware doesn't have the black backing behind the shield, while we do (not for long if FHWA keeps being dicks about it!). The only way to differentiate is the fact that you can't just silently cross into Delaware (or New Jersey) - you physically have to cross a body of water via a bridge to do so, and there are definitely signs telling you that you entered a different state.

No jughandles, self service and wire span traffic lights in Delaware