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Author Topic: I-66 HO/T Lanes  (Read 59589 times)

froggie

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2015, 11:13:24 AM »

Presumably less of an issue these days since the 20/30-somethings of today are less inclined to have children than past generations.  That said, I know plenty of parents who have chosen to stick it out in the District because the drawbacks of DCPS are outweighed by the benefits of living closer in.
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1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2015, 11:46:51 AM »

Presumably less of an issue these days since the 20/30-somethings of today are less inclined to have children than past generations.  That said, I know plenty of parents who have chosen to stick it out in the District because the drawbacks of DCPS are outweighed by the benefits of living closer in.


Sure, but there are still a lot of people with school-age kids who moved based in part on that issue. It's the sort of thing that takes time to filter out regardless of what younger people are inclined to do, simply because existing kids have to grow up and their parents have to retire before the commuting impact is diluted. I say "diluted" rather than eliminated because, of course, retirement doesn't necessarily take traffic off the roads, though it may shift the traffic or change the time of day the person travels. (For example, my mother retired four or five years ago but still works periodically as a substitute teacher as a way to make extra money and keep her mind active and engaged.)

Mentioning my parents makes me think of another commuting issue that I'm sure I've noted before: Two-income households where the people do not work in the same location, and may well work in opposite directions from each other. Unless one spouse changes jobs (which may not be a realistic option), there's a fair chance one or both of them will have some sort of commute issue. In that situation I tend to think living midway between is often the reasonable thing to do even if it means they both have "longer" commutes than might be the case if they lived near one spouse's workplace.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2015, 10:52:58 AM »

Washington Post: Congress members raise concerns about I-66 plan

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Four members of Congress from Northern Virginia have written to Virginia’s transportation secretary to say they find aspects of the state’s plan for Interstate 66 “deeply troubling.”

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In the letter dated Thursday, Gerald E. Connolly (D), Robert J. Wittman (R), Donald S. Beyer Jr. (D) and Barbara Comstock (R) wrote to Secretary Aubrey Layne that they were concerned about “the far-reaching implications of your proposal on commuters and neighborhoods, the rapid timetable proposed, and the lack of public input into the planning process.”

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The letter points out that the state’s proposal to create high-occupancy toll lanes and raise the carpool standard from HOV2 to HOV3 still faces federal scrutiny. The members of Congress note that their constituents have expressed concern to them about many aspects of the project. “We strongly urge that you work to address these concerns,” the letter concludes.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2015, 10:53:58 AM »

Presumably less of an issue these days since the 20/30-somethings of today are less inclined to have children than past generations.  That said, I know plenty of parents who have chosen to stick it out in the District because the drawbacks of DCPS are outweighed by the benefits of living closer in.

Under no circumstances would I have wanted my stepsons in the District of Columbia's public schools.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2015, 09:42:38 AM »

Washington Post: Virginians near I-66 see the state’s plan for HOT lanes as a threat

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The state of Virginia has different plans for adding high-occupancy toll lanes to Interstate 66 inside and outside the Capital Beltway. But this much is consistent: It must make a very convincing case that its congestion solutions aren’t just about charging tolls.

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Many people have shared their skepticism about the plans, but those most deeply concerned are those who live close to I-66 just outside the Beltway and fear that their property and lifestyle will be damaged. This letter is from one of those residents.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2015, 03:36:26 PM »

Washington Post:  Can a tolling and transit deal fix I-66 after decades of failure?

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One of the immovable forces of Washington-area politics, cemented when Gerald Ford was president and Rod Stewart topped the Billboard charts, could be starting to budge.

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At least that’s the view of the man Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D) sent to try to end the commonwealth’s decades-long political stalemate over Interstate 66.

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As part of intricate and ongoing negotiations over the fate of the road and its surroundings, Arlington County politicians’ principled — or intransigent — opposition to widening the ­traffic-choked route to the nation’s capital has, in the word of Transportation Secretary Aubrey Layne, “softened.”

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Layne said he believes that the broad framework of a deal has been struck: I-66 would be converted to a toll road inside the Capital Beltway, with carpoolers riding free. The tolls — tens of millions worth — would be channeled to just the types of Metro, bus, bike and pedestrian improvements that county officials have long argued are the best way to move growing numbers of people.
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1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2015, 05:05:52 PM »

I find the inside-the-Beltway proposal more interesting than (though certainly no less important than) the outside-the-Beltway proposal simply because the inside-the-Beltway one is different from the other HO/T lanes we have now and because it would cost substantially less to implement due to the limited construction needed.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2015, 06:22:19 PM »

I find the inside-the-Beltway proposal more interesting than (though certainly no less important than) the outside-the-Beltway proposal simply because the inside-the-Beltway one is different from the other HO/T lanes we have now and because it would cost substantially less to implement due to the limited construction needed.

It is certainly much easier to fix than what is outside the Beltway.

No need to take much or any real estate to deal with the problems inside the Beltway. 

Added bonus, this also fixes the massive congestion problem in the off-peak flow (AM westbound and PM eastbound) directions of I-66
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froggie

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2015, 09:07:43 PM »

A Dr Gridlock article today talks about the I-66 project outside the Beltway, but doesn't offer a whole lot of new information.  It does mention that VDOT released the Tier 2 Draft EIS today.  There are also updated renderings to go with meetings later this month and next month.

Of note, there is a 3rd option now at VA 28 which would effectively make it a 3-level interchange, with 66 on the bottom, southbound 28 and associated ramps on the middle level, and northbound 28 and associated ramps at the top level.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2015, 09:41:32 PM »

A Dr Gridlock article today talks about the I-66 project outside the Beltway, but doesn't offer a whole lot of new information.  It does mention that VDOT released the Tier 2 Draft EIS today.  There are also updated renderings to go with meetings later this month and next month.

Of note, there is a 3rd option now at VA 28 which would effectively make it a 3-level interchange, with 66 on the bottom, southbound 28 and associated ramps on the middle level, and northbound 28 and associated ramps at the top level.

IMO, the two worst interchanges in the corridor are at Va. 28 (mostly because 28 itself is so badly congested by the at-grade signalized intersection north of the interchange at Va. 620 (Braddock Road)), and at U.S. 50 (Lee-Jackson Highway), where it looks like VDOT is proposing a lot of work with any of the alternatives. 

Glad to see that VDOT is considering doing something to improve the rest areas in Prince William County near Bull Run and the Fairfax County Line (they have not had anything done to them since I-66 opened to traffic between I-495 and U.S. 29 at Gainesville in the 1960's).

Thanks for sharing this.
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iBallasticwolf2

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2015, 04:27:40 PM »

For the best in DC suburban living, your new dream home awaits............in Moorefield WV

Lol
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2015, 04:50:51 PM »

For the best in DC suburban living, your new dream home awaits............in Moorefield WV

Maybe if Virginia builds its part of Corridor H (U.S. 48).  But it was not even mentioned in the Six Year Plan the last time I looked.
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ARMOURERERIC

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2015, 08:32:08 PM »

I was making fun of my own life experiences:  I bought my first home at age 23 at the corner of Old Baltimore Road and Edmonston in Rockville in July 1986, sold it 18 months later at a 50% markup and bought a big vic on the river with acreage in Brunswick MD, I look at google map views of stupid attempts at walkable cityscape developments in places I used to hang like Lovettsvile VA
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2015, 08:35:58 PM »

I was making fun of my own life experiences:  I bought my first home at age 23 at the corner of Old Baltimore Road and Edmonston in Rockville in July 1986, sold it 18 months later at a 50% markup and bought a big vic on the river with acreage in Brunswick MD, I look at google map views of stupid attempts at walkable cityscape developments in places I used to hang like Lovettsvile VA

I am quite familiar with all of those places.  Old Baltimore and Edmonston is near the Civic Center, right?

Funny thing about Brunswick - it is pretty far out, but a fair number of people residing there ride transit to work, because the MARC trains stop there (and for some trips, that's the end of the line).
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2015, 09:22:38 AM »

Washington Post: State control of I-66 expansion could net Virginia substantial revenue

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Keeping the financing and construction of a proposed expansion of Interstate 66 under state control — rather than handing those responsibilities off to private investors — could net the commonwealth $200 million to $500 million in toll revenue over 40 years to be used for other Northern Virginia transportation projects, according to a new state analysis.

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And gaining these benefits for taxpayers would cost the state half as much upfront, compared with doing a so-called public-private partnership, according to Virginia Transportation Secretary Aubrey Layne, who is set to describe the analysis Tuesday at a meeting of Virginia’s top transportation oversight body.

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Virginia has been a national leader during the past two decades in tapping private companies to take over public transportation projects. Layne’s approach is the clearest sign yet that state officials intend to take a harder look at such public-private partnerships following a series of past missteps.

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Layne said he has not ruled out pursuing a public-private partnership for the proposed $2.1 billion I-66 project under the right conditions.
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ARMOURERERIC

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2015, 12:04:08 AM »

I was making fun of my own life experiences:  I bought my first home at age 23 at the corner of Old Baltimore Road and Edmonston in Rockville in July 1986, sold it 18 months later at a 50% markup and bought a big vic on the river with acreage in Brunswick MD, I look at google map views of stupid attempts at walkable cityscape developments in places I used to hang like Lovettsvile VA

I am quite familiar with all of those places.  Old Baltimore and Edmonston is near the Civic Center, right?

Funny thing about Brunswick - it is pretty far out, but a fair number of people residing there ride transit to work, because the MARC trains stop there (and for some trips, that's the end of the line).

Yep, I owned the house diagonally across the intersection from the civic center with the 2 HUGE oaks in front.  Bought it in 1986 for $88,000 sold it in 1988 for $136K, I was 23 and thought:  Wow! real estate investing is easy.

Back in Brunswick, they did not even have the required signalling for 24 hour operation back then.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2015, 04:12:19 PM »

How much does anyone want to bet nothing happens to Interstate 66 inside the beltway? Not that I am against the HOT Lane proposal.
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froggie

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2015, 04:18:21 PM »

Converting it to HO/T-3 will probably happen.  There's enough VDOT and political support for it.
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1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2015, 07:46:07 PM »

At a minimum, I think even if they were to defer the inside-the-Beltway HO/T project, they'll still restore the old HOV-3 restriction instead of HOV-2 (they already said they plan to do that), and I think they'd consider imposing it in both directions during both rush hours (that is, instead of the current "to DC AM, from DC PM" system—to borrow terminology from the MTA's peak-direction express trains—HIV would apply both inbound and outbound in both the morning and afternoon). Traffic volumes certainly warrant consideration of bi-directional HOV, given how the road serves what some people still call "reverse commuters" from DC and Arlington to Tysons or Fair Lakes. (I think the term "reverse commute" is somewhat outdated in today's DC area.)
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2015, 10:19:46 AM »

At a minimum, I think even if they were to defer the inside-the-Beltway HO/T project, they'll still restore the old HOV-3 restriction instead of HOV-2 (they already said they plan to do that), and I think they'd consider imposing it in both directions during both rush hours (that is, instead of the current "to DC AM, from DC PM" system—to borrow terminology from the MTA's peak-direction express trains—HIV would apply both inbound and outbound in both the morning and afternoon).

HIV?  Used by an anti-road/anti-auto activist from Takoma Park to describe Maryland HOV lane projects that he was opposed to (he was opposed to any and all highway improvement projects).

IMO, you have the right idea. 

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Traffic volumes certainly warrant consideration of bi-directional HOV, given how the road serves what some people still call "reverse commuters" from DC and Arlington to Tysons or Fair Lakes. (I think the term "reverse commute" is somewhat outdated in today's DC area.)

Agreed.
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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2015, 11:28:09 AM »

to borrow terminology from the MTA's peak-direction express trains—HIV
Presuming you mean HOV, I agree that I-66 inside the beltway warrants a reversible HOV (Most likely a HOV-3). I don't know if they will improve anything inside the beltway, but god knows they should.
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1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2015, 02:12:57 PM »

Obviously, "HIV" was a typo. For a good long time, my iPad autocorrect recognized when I wanted "HOV," but in the past week it appears to have lost that entry and several others.

I suppose that says something about getting too used to autocorrect.

I was not referring to a reversible HOV facility like the one on I-395, BTW. I meant keeping the road basically as-is but having HOV apply in both directions. That is, under the current system it's HOV outbound from 16:00 to 18:30 weekdays. I expect VDOT would make it HOV both inbound and outbound during those hours even if they don't implement tolling operations. (Same would apply in the morning. I don't recall the morning HOV hours and don't want to look them up since I'm typing this on an iPhone.)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 02:15:54 PM by 1995hoo »
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—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
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"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2015, 04:35:12 PM »

Obviously, "HIV" was a typo. For a good long time, my iPad autocorrect recognized when I wanted "HOV," but in the past week it appears to have lost that entry and several others.

I suppose that says something about getting too used to autocorrect.

Figured as much.


I was not referring to a reversible HOV facility like the one on I-395, BTW. I meant keeping the road basically as-is but having HOV apply in both directions. That is, under the current system it's HOV outbound from 16:00 to 18:30 weekdays. I expect VDOT would make it HOV both inbound and outbound during those hours even if they don't implement tolling operations. (Same would apply in the morning. I don't recall the morning HOV hours and don't want to look them up since I'm typing this on an iPhone.)

The morning HOV I-66 hours (eastbound only) are 6:30 to 9:00 inside the Beltway and 5:30 to 9:30 outside the Beltway.

I agree with the idea of managing it in both directions in both peak commute periods with tolls and HOV-3 restrictions.  Of course, elected officials in Arlington County are very worried that the revenue might be used to fund a widening of I-66 in their county, or nearby.
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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2015, 02:55:15 PM »

CTB held a workshop where an update to I-66 improvements was given:

http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2015/june/pres/I66Update.pdf

Open to traffic in 2021...

Mike
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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2015, 06:24:46 PM »

It seems to me the biggest issue with I-66 outside of the Beltway is between Lee Jackson (US 50) and the Beltway which are the areas with lane control.  Even on the weekends, during the afternoon there's congestion both ways on this stretch of I-66.  However, once you get west of US 50, it always clears up and traffic moves fine.  I think adding an extra lane would help tremendously on this stretch, especially during non-peak times.

To echo what C. Patrick said a while back, the I-66/VA 28 interchange is terrible and I do hope to see improvements made there.  However, it is better since the turn lanes were extended on VA 28 South.  The traffic lights are synced up so once the light is green at Braddock/Walney, the waiting at the interstate to go East is minimized or eliminated.  I've found equally as bad is the off ramp from I-66 East to VA 28 North.  During the morning rush, it frequently backs up and drivers are always trying to cut in front as well.  Also, people inattentive drivers can create problems with a sudden stop.  It appears VDOT may be extending the lane for the off ramp based on the addition of a 5th light in the new lane control system which is not active yet.  However, this could actually be worse, because unless an additional emergency lane is added it doesn't give room for drivers to swerve to avoid rear end collisions without going completely off the highway.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 06:35:49 PM by skaguy »
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