How would Interstate 78 have run through New York City?

[Zeffy]

After scanning more of my maps, I noticed that there was an I-78 shield on what is now NY 878 near JFK airport:


From what I understood, the portions of the routing through Brooklyn and Queens that were built of I-78 were I-295 and NY 878. Bushwick Avenue was supposed to be upgraded into an expressway that would've carried I-78. The rest is confusing to me. Anyone care to shed some light?

[TheStranger]

From the current east end (Holland Tunnel portal in Manhattan) -

- Lower Manhattan Expressway connecting the Holland Tunnel with the Williamsburg Bridge:  http://www.nycroads.com/roads/lower-manhattan/
- the Bushwick Expressway southeast from the Williamsburg Bridge to today's NY 878 via the Bushwick Avenue and Conduit Avenue corridors http://www.nycroads.com/roads/bushwick/
- the Nassau Expressway/NY 878 (I-878): http://www.nycroads.com/roads/NY-878/
- the unbuilt section of the Clearview Expressway between JFK and NY 25 in Queens: http://www.nycroads.com/roads/clearview/
- the Clearview Expressway (I-295) north/northwest to the Bruckner Interchange.

[NE2]

A 1958 AASHO submission I have lying around from a long-defunct site (that was unfortunately never saved by archive.org):



Note that this numbering is preliminary, and that I-78 was later moved to the Nassau Expressway at JFK. And holy crap, I never noticed that I-495 was going to return to I-95 via the Throgs Neck. In the final plan, this was 78 instead.

[02 Park Ave]

I can confirm what The Stranger wrote.

[Pete from Boston]

A 1958 AASHO submission I have lying around from a long-defunct site (that was unfortunately never saved by archive.org):



Note that this numbering is preliminary, and that I-78 was later moved to the Nassau Expressway at JFK. And holy crap, I never noticed that I-495 was going to return to I-95 via the Throgs Neck. In the final plan, this was 78 instead.

Interesting. I wonder what number the LIE would have taken.

[02 Park Ave]

The Long Island Expressway was called the Horace Harding Expressway in Queens.

[Mergingtraffic]

A 1958 AASHO submission I have lying around from a long-defunct site (that was unfortunately never saved by archive.org):



Note that this numbering is preliminary, and that I-78 was later moved to the Nassau Expressway at JFK. And holy crap, I never noticed that I-495 was going to return to I-95 via the Throgs Neck. In the final plan, this was 78 instead.

and no mention of I-678 and I found a public domain pic of the Clearview signed as I-78.

The pic is from some congressional study of BGSes and driver confusion based on control cities.

[NE2]

and no mention of I-678

I-595 became I-678 in the final plan. It was later rerouted down the Van Wyck.

[KEVIN_224]

Strange to see that 2DI shield used as a 3DI! Where exactly was this photo taken from?

[Pete from Boston]

The Long Island Expressway was called the Horace Harding Expressway in Queens.

Street level signs still said that last I checked, but that was years ago.  I meant out on the Island. 

[TheStranger]

Interesting. I wonder what number the LIE would have taken.

Wasn't much of the LIE east of 295 (then 78) originally NY 24?  (Then it became NY 495, and eventually I-495)

[briantroutman]

The pic is from some congressional study of BGSes and driver confusion based on control cities.

So this picture appears to be here, correct?

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.746143,-73.772587,3a,75y,158.9h,94.36t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sSGwdsrNtw1ayn1EPZBT7nQ!2e0

[Mergingtraffic]

The pic is from some congressional study of BGSes and driver confusion based on control cities.

So this picture appears to be here, correct?

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.746143,-73.772587,3a,75y,158.9h,94.36t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sSGwdsrNtw1ayn1EPZBT7nQ!2e0

yes.

Strange to see that 2DI shield used as a 3DI! Where exactly was this photo taken from?

I got it from here:
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=pst.000017394611;view=1up;seq=1

[02 Park Ave]

I would say that the picture was taken on the southbound Clearview Expressway approaching the Horace Harding Expressway.

[Zeffy]

Interesting. I wonder what number the LIE would have taken.

Wasn't much of the LIE east of 295 (then 78) originally NY 24?  (Then it became NY 495, and eventually I-495)

A map I have from 1968 shows it as NY 24D. Scratch that, it looks to be NY 24.

Anyway, the amount of information contributed here has been very helpful, not that I would expect any less from this community! 

[dgolub]

The Long Island Expressway was called the Horace Harding Expressway in Queens.

Street level signs still said that last I checked, but that was years ago.  I meant out on the Island.

The service road is called the Horace Harding Expressway from Queens Boulevard (NY 25) to the Queens-Nassau border.  This part of the expressway took the place of Horace Harding Boulevard, which was NY 25D.  There's also a little piece of Horace Harding Boulevard that still exists in Nassau just over the county line.

[Pete from Boston]

A 1958 AASHO submission I have lying around from a long-defunct site (that was unfortunately never saved by archive.org):



Note that this numbering is preliminary, and that I-78 was later moved to the Nassau Expressway at JFK. And holy crap, I never noticed that I-495 was going to return to I-95 via the Throgs Neck. In the final plan, this was 78 instead.

and no mention of I-678 and I found a public domain pic of the Clearview signed as I-78.

The pic is from some congressional study of BGSes and driver confusion based on control cities.

Wow, that's wild. I have gone through that point countless times over the decades and to see it as 78 is like stepping into some alternate reality.

[dgolub]

and no mention of I-678 and I found a public domain pic of the Clearview signed as I-78.

The pic is from some congressional study of BGSes and driver confusion based on control cities.

Wow, that's wild. I have gone through that point countless times over the decades and to see it as 78 is like stepping into some alternate reality.

Yeah, seeing I-495 and NY 495 on the same sign is also pretty surreal.

[Pete from Boston]

and no mention of I-678 and I found a public domain pic of the Clearview signed as I-78.

The pic is from some congressional study of BGSes and driver confusion based on control cities.

Wow, that's wild. I have gone through that point countless times over the decades and to see it as 78 is like stepping into some alternate reality.

Yeah, seeing I-495 and NY 495 on the same sign is also pretty surreal.

I do remember quite a few signs for both; I just can't remember if they were signed together like this.  Also, when was the last time New York used outline shields like this? 

[mrsman]

The historical information is correct, but I-78 seems roundabout.  IMO, it would be better to end I-78 at JFK and have the Clearivew as I-295 without continuing I-78 to the north.

[NE2]

The historical information is correct, but I-78 seems roundabout.  IMO, it would be better to end I-78 at JFK and have the Clearivew as I-295 without continuing I-78 to the north.

You realize you're talking about an alignment that was cancelled ca. 1970, right?

[J Route Z]

It should've been along Delancy Street onto the Brooklyn Bridge, then into I-278. The I-278 numbering will have some purpose, since it currently does not intersect I-78.

[Duke87]

The historical information is correct, but I-78 seems roundabout.  IMO, it would be better to end I-78 at JFK and have the Clearivew as I-295 without continuing I-78 to the north.

Honestly I think they just planned the expressways by name and threw numbers on them as an afterthought. Following I-78 from its eastern end as a through route west would not have made sense but that wasn't the point. The point was they wanted federal funding to build these roads and to get that they needed to give them numbers, something which I am sure New York otherwise had no intention of doing. None of the parkways have signed numbers, after all (9A/Henry Hudson overlap notwithstanding).

Meanwhile the roundaboutness would hardly have been unique. See I-64 in Norfolk.

[NE2]

One thing I just noticed on the 1958 map: I-95 is shown on the Turnpike. But at that time, it was planned on its own corridor all the way to I-80. Perhaps New York assumed New Jersey would do the logical thing. Or maybe BPR never approved separate I-95 inside I-287, but since New Jersey hadn't requested it (wanting a separate alignment) they couldn't officially add the Turnpike.

[Alps]

One thing I just noticed on the 1958 map: I-95 is shown on the Turnpike. But at that time, it was planned on its own corridor all the way to I-80. Perhaps New York assumed New Jersey would do the logical thing. Or maybe BPR never approved separate I-95 inside I-287, but since New Jersey hadn't requested it (wanting a separate alignment) they couldn't officially add the Turnpike.

Even the map you link to has I-95 on the northern Turnpike.