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Author Topic: I-165 Kentucky (William H. Natcher Green River Parkway)  (Read 42877 times)

Grzrd

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I-165 Kentucky (William H. Natcher Green River Parkway)
« on: February 24, 2015, 01:55:55 PM »

KYTC has posted the Audubon, Natcher and US 60  Report on its website:
http://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/Pages/Project-Details.aspx?Project=I-69,%20I-66/I-65%20Spurs%20and%20US%2060%20Connection%20Strategic%20Planning%20Corridor%20Study
(above quote from KYTC to Study Interstate Upgrades For Audubon and Natcher Parkways thread)

This article reports that the "first step" has been taken in upgrading the Natcher Parkway to an I-65 Spur:

Quote
A recent meeting in Frankfort between area political leaders and the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet was "an important first step" in getting the William H. Natcher Parkway upgraded to an interstate spur from Interstate 65 in Bowling Green to Owensboro, state Sen. Joe Bowen said Monday.
"It was the initial step we needed to take to get this underway," the Owensboro Republican said. "We want to get some momentum going, so it will be far enough along that it can't be stopped" by future Frankfort administrations.
There is still no timeline for starting work on the project, however, Bowen said ....
When Palmer Engineering of Winchester released a report in May that looked at what it would take to elevate the Audubon and Natcher parkways and sections of U.S. 60 and U.S. 231 in Owensboro to federal interstate standards, it concluded that raising the Natcher Parkway and a part of the former U.S. 60 bypass to interstate standards would cost up to $148 million.
But Bowen said officials now believe the work on the Natcher could be done for $65 million "on the top end."
He said, "We're hoping for variances from the federal government that would bring the cost even lower. It's a lot better now than a lot of interstates in the Northeast. We hope they take into account that it's largely a rural highway."

Another article reports that it could possibly be included in the Kentucky road plan in a few years:

Quote
“We strongly support the upgrading of the Natcher Parkway to interstate standards, in order to be utilized as a spur of I-65, to Owensboro,” Warren County Judge-Executive Mike Buchanon said in a text message. Buchanon sent a letter Feb. 12 to Kentucky Transportation Cabinet Secretary Mike Hancock supporting the project.
“This designation will have a very positive benefit, as it will create interest among site selectors and generate economic activity that will benefit this region,” Buchanon wrote to Hancock. “Once the construction projects are defined to meet the federal standards, they can be included in the road plan over the next few years.”

Here is a snip of a table from the Executive Summary of the above-linked study posted by KYTC which summarizes cost estimates (page 9/23 of pdf; page 7 of document):



I don't believe I-66 was mentioned in either article.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 11:09:53 AM by Grzrd »
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aboges26

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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2015, 01:42:08 AM »

Have there been any Interstate designations officially talked for this corridor to become?  (Other than being a portion of I-66)
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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2015, 10:21:59 AM »

So, it isn't a plan for the Natcher and Audubon to be considered one corridor number like an I-X65 or I-X69? Or are one or both of those being considered as part of something longer?
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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2015, 10:42:19 AM »

I think leaving the parkways with an I-x69 or I-x65 would be an excellent idea whether I-66 ever gets built or not.  It does connect two interstate systems and should really be one for now or forever depending on I-66's status. 

Even the WP should really get one as well.  Though not planned as one, it should also have one as its eastern terminus is with I-65 near Elizabethtown.
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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2015, 10:47:31 AM »

Owensboro may just become another Jonesboro, with two Interstate spurs being planned to go there!
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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2015, 10:50:25 AM »

Owensboro may just become another Jonesboro, with two Interstate spurs being planned to go there!
Better than Myrtle Beach, SC with two 2 digits going there, with one of them coming from a roundabout way lol!
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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2015, 04:50:28 PM »

Other than upgrading the interchanges that used to be locations of toll booths (where there are all loop ramps), I think the money would be better spent elsewhere in the state.
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Grzrd

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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2015, 09:45:47 PM »

The Owensboro-Daviess County 2015-2040 Metropolitan Transportation Plan ("MTP") has been posted and upgrading the Natcher Parkway to interstate standards from US 60 in Owensboro to the Western Kentucky Parkway is the top fiscally restrained priority after completion of the projects in the current KYTC Highway Plan, with the upgrade tentatively planned for 2021 (p. 60-97 of pdf; p. 54 of document):

Quote
The Highway Element of the 2040 Metropolitan Transportation Plan is summarized in the tables on the following pages. Table1 represents the projects that are expected to be constructed between 2015 – 2020. These projects are currently scheduled in the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet Highway Plan. These projects listed in Table 1 are depicted just as they are in the KYTC Highway Plan. Therefore, some years may not have projects listed. However, it is expected that it will take the first six (6) years (2015 – 2020) to complete the projects in the current KYTC Highway Plan. Table2 shows that projects the Owensboro – Daviess County MPO has recommended for the financially constrained portion of the MTP. Some projects were either moved up or down in the5-year priority grouping basedon available funding as determined by the financial analysis and year of expenditure dollar amounts.

Here is a snip from Table 2 (p. 62/97 of pdf: p. 56 of document):



edit

This August 4 article reports on the plan being made public, that the Natcher interste upgrade tops the list, and that there will be a public meeting about the plan in Owensboro on August 20.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 09:19:40 AM by Grzrd »
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2015, 07:07:56 PM »

I only have one word in my comment on this: Meh!
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iBallasticwolf2

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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2015, 07:15:49 PM »

I only have one word in my comment on this: Meh!
Agreed. I don't think the Natcher Parkway needs to be an I-65 spur. Especially since if the Audobon Parkway goes through with being converted to an I-69 spur Owensboro will have an interstate that almost touches the city limits.
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Brandon

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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2015, 01:11:15 PM »

I only have one word in my comment on this: Meh!
Agreed. I don't think the Natcher Parkway needs to be an I-65 spur. Especially since if the Audobon Parkway goes through with being converted to an I-69 spur Owensboro will have an interstate that almost touches the city limits.

Why not just move US-231 onto it, download the old road to the counties where possible, and call it a day?
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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2015, 01:16:38 PM »

I only have one word in my comment on this: Meh!
Agreed. I don't think the Natcher Parkway needs to be an I-65 spur. Especially since if the Audobon Parkway goes through with being converted to an I-69 spur Owensboro will have an interstate that almost touches the city limits.

Why not just move US-231 onto it, download the old road to the counties where possible, and call it a day?
I think that is a good idea. Just move existing routes onto the parkways when possible. It can be done with other parkways if need be. It's a good idea.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2015, 04:17:06 PM »

On second thought, since US 231 parallels the Natcher Parkway, I say go for it!
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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2015, 07:25:12 AM »

Playing devil's advocate: If we use the same logic here, then should we just move all US routes to their parallel interstates and turn those US routes over to the local jurisdictions? Whether the parkways have an interstate designation or not, they still have their own designation.
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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2015, 10:24:52 AM »

Playing devil's advocate: If we use the same logic here, then should we just move all US routes to their parallel interstates and turn those US routes over to the local jurisdictions?

Does the color and shape of the shield actually matter any more when it comes to federal highway funding?

There are plenty of examples where paralleling/legacy US routes are not considered part of the National Highway System presumably due to the redundancy (and plenty of examples of state routes that are part of the system).  I was under the impression that NHS status had (in theory) some influence over eligibility for some forms of federal funding.
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hbelkins

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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2015, 12:04:18 PM »

Playing devil's advocate: If we use the same logic here, then should we just move all US routes to their parallel interstates and turn those US routes over to the local jurisdictions? Whether the parkways have an interstate designation or not, they still have their own designation.

I've long been in favor of putting a regular route number on the parkways instead of keeping the route number designations in the secret 9000 series. They can still be named roads, and can still have those God-awful generic route markers, but there's really no reason KY 80 shouldn't be on the Hal Rogers and Cumberland Parkways. And the parallel routes probably wouldn't be turned over to the counties. They'd just get renumbered as state routes. As heavily traveled as a lot of the parallel routes are now, the counties wouldn't have the financial resources to adequately maintain them. And they would not necessarily become 3000-series numbers, either. Apparently there are some lower number available. KY 978 is, I know. KY 227 got rerouted over it in Owen County.

Back in the 1980s, Kentucky couldn't decide what to do with the Mountain Parkway's route number designation after the tolls were removed. It was originally designated as an unsigned extension of KY 114. Then, the designation got changed to KY 402, which was also never signed with one exception. When Exit 33 was rebuilt to tear down the toll booths and eliminate the old toll-booth cloverleaf, the contractor put up KY 402 signage on the parkway and the intersecting route, KY 11. Those signs stayed up for a few months before they got changed out in favor of the old-style circular blue and green Mountain Parkway markers. I never got photos of the KY 402 signs, but I sure wish I had. That's why sometimes you will still see maps designating the route as KY 402. They eventually settled on KY 9000 for the original four-lane section and KY 9009 for the original undivided portion. Who knows if it will change again once the four-laning is complete?

My opinion -- put US 460 on the route from Prestonsburg to Winchester and put KY 40 -- the original designation -- on the road from Salyersville to Frankfort.
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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2015, 04:44:06 PM »

I never got photos of the KY 402 signs, but I sure wish I had. That's why sometimes you will still see maps designating the route as KY 402. They eventually settled on KY 9000 for the original four-lane section and KY 9009 for the original undivided portion. Who knows if it will change again once the four-laning is complete?


Michael Summa, who had collections of vintage road signs photos or someone else who had taken a photo during that era might have a vintage photo of KY-402 sign.
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Rothman

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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2015, 05:37:16 PM »

Playing devil's advocate: If we use the same logic here, then should we just move all US routes to their parallel interstates and turn those US routes over to the local jurisdictions?

Does the color and shape of the shield actually matter any more when it comes to federal highway funding?

There are plenty of examples where paralleling/legacy US routes are not considered part of the National Highway System presumably due to the redundancy (and plenty of examples of state routes that are part of the system).  I was under the impression that NHS status had (in theory) some influence over eligibility for some forms of federal funding.

True, NHS status does cause a state to use National Highway Performance Program funds  rather than STP funds on them.

At least in New York, a lot of the parallel routes to interstates are on the NHS (e.g., US 20).
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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2015, 01:25:17 PM »

Any route number would be more useful to the public.  My observation has been that the Parkway logos are indiscernible gibberish at the same distance where any other numbered road marker (I, US, KY) is crystal clear.

Also, there is no reason why the parkways can't keep their names after their 'promotion'.  The I-69 portions all have signage referring to the parkway name as "former".  That struck me as silly.  It can be both.  We are used to freeways having both names and numbers in America; even in rural places.
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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2015, 05:14:24 PM »

Kentucky ought to renumber the parkways interstate style, even if the interstate designation is years or decades away:

Mountain Parkway - KY 564 (we'll save 164 and 364 for use elsewhere in the state, and 264 is of course taken).
Natcher Parkway - KY 165
Audubon Parkway - KY 369
Cumberland Parkway - KY 365
Bluegrass Parkway - KY 565

The Purchase Parkway is of course being consumed by I-69, although if the small part north of I-24 remains it could be given another number.
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hbelkins

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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2015, 07:44:47 PM »

The Purchase Parkway is of course being consumed by I-69, although if the small part north of I-24 remains it could be given another number.

That small part will definitely remain, and full access from I-24 will be retained. One of the original proposals called for one of the movements from I-24 to that section to be eliminated (don't remember if it was EB or WB) but a large public outcry to keep it resulted in that outcome. I didn't see what the big deal was, since there's a US 62 exit about a mile from the Purchase Parkway exit.

I suspect the remaining stub will become an extension of the four-digit route it ties into at US 62 (KY 1526?).
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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2015, 09:45:42 PM »

Any route number would be more useful to the public.  My observation has been that the Parkway logos are indiscernible gibberish at the same distance where any other numbered road marker (I, US, KY) is crystal clear.

Also, there is no reason why the parkways can't keep their names after their 'promotion'.  The I-69 portions all have signage referring to the parkway name as "former".  That struck me as silly.  It can be both.  We are used to freeways having both names and numbers in America; even in rural places.

Kentucky ought to renumber the parkways interstate style, even if the interstate designation is years or decades away:

Mountain Parkway - KY 564 (we'll save 164 and 364 for use elsewhere in the state, and 264 is of course taken).
Natcher Parkway - KY 165
Audubon Parkway - KY 369
Cumberland Parkway - KY 365
Bluegrass Parkway - KY 565

The Purchase Parkway is of course being consumed by I-69, although if the small part north of I-24 remains it could be given another number.

For what it's worth, I agree with and endorse both of these approaches. Give the parkways a route number, allow them to have their parkway name retained, and whenever it is time to transition them to Interstate status due to improved standards, then sign them at that time.
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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2015, 09:50:00 PM »

Any route number would be more useful to the public.  My observation has been that the Parkway logos are indiscernible gibberish at the same distance where any other numbered road marker (I, US, KY) is crystal clear.

Also, there is no reason why the parkways can't keep their names after their 'promotion'.  The I-69 portions all have signage referring to the parkway name as "former".  That struck me as silly.  It can be both.  We are used to freeways having both names and numbers in America; even in rural places.

Kentucky ought to renumber the parkways interstate style, even if the interstate designation is years or decades away:

Mountain Parkway - KY 564 (we'll save 164 and 364 for use elsewhere in the state, and 264 is of course taken).
Natcher Parkway - KY 165
Audubon Parkway - KY 369
Cumberland Parkway - KY 365
Bluegrass Parkway - KY 565

The Purchase Parkway is of course being consumed by I-69, although if the small part north of I-24 remains it could be given another number.

For what it's worth, I agree with and endorse both of these approaches. Give the parkways a route number, allow them to have their parkway name retained, and whenever it is time to transition them to Interstate status due to improved standards, then sign them at that time.
Some Kentuckians would throw a fit at tide's idea. They might think that KYDOT is wanting to upgrade the road to interstate standards at that moment resulting in "environmental damage" to their area and "urban sprawl" to their rural areas.
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Grzrd

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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2015, 04:49:20 PM »

The Natcher Parkway may be Congressionally designated as an I-65 Spur in the relatively near future.  Section 1405 of the proposed STRR Act from the House of Representatives would amend Section 119(a) of the SAFETEA-LU Technical Corrections Act to include the I-65 spur designation between Bowling Green and Owensboro.  Section 119(a) currently reads as follows:

Quote
SEC. 119. FUTURE INTERSTATE DESIGNATION.

    (a) In General.--Subject to subsection (b), the Secretary of Transportation shall designate, as a future Interstate Route 69 Spur, the Audubon Parkway and, as a future Interstate Route 66 Spur, the Natcher Parkway in Owensboro, Kentucky. Any segment of such routes shall become part of the Interstate System (as defined in section 101 of title 23, United States Code) at such time as the Secretary determines that the segment--
            (1) meets the Interstate System design standards approved by the Secretary under section 109(b) of title 23, United States Code; and
            (2) connects to an existing Interstate System segment.

The proposed Section 1405 STRR amendment would amend the above as follows (p.196/558 of pdf; p. 196 of document):

Quote
(d) FUTURE INTERSTATE DESIGNATION.—Section 119(a) of the SAFETEA–LU Technical Corrections Act of 2008 is amended by striking ‘‘and, as a future Interstate Route 66 Spur, the Natcher Parkway in Owensboro, Kentucky’’ and inserting ‘‘between Henderson, Kentucky, and Owensboro, Kentucky, and, as a future Interstate Route 65 and 66 Spur, the William H. Natcher Parkway between Bowling Green, Kentucky, and Owensboro, Kentucky’’.

It's interesting that the I-65 spur designation would be added to the I-66 spur designation, instead of having the I-65 spur designation replace the I-66 spur designation.  I guess they want to keep the I-66 dream alive.

Would this constitute the longest 3di/3di overlap in the interstate system?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 04:57:17 PM by Grzrd »
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thefro

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Re: Natcher Parkway Upgrade to I-65 Spur
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2015, 08:23:34 AM »

I-66 in Kentucky isn't going away as long as Hal Rogers chairs the Appropriations Committee.
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