Current state speed limit increase proposals

[bzakharin]

Don't forget the NMSL repeal came about only after both houses of Congress changed hands in 1994 (well, after the 1994 election).

Well aware of such. 

The point of my original post (which was in response to Pete From Boston's comment regarding northeastern states dragging their feet on the issue) was that even when the Feds marginally lifted the restrictions; the governors of many of those northeastern states at the time still wouldn't budge on the matter.  Heck, PA (under Bob Casey, Sr.) went as far as to erect signs at every expressway/turnpike at the borders that read: PENNSYLVANIA'S MAXIMUM SPEED LIMIT STILL 55 MPH (the word STILL was boxed in yellow).  Needless to say, those signs were taken down once PA started adopting 65 mph speed limits in 1995.

Post remnants of above-sign along I-95 northbound just north of PA 452/Exit 2

And now PA has areas of 70 MPH, while I-95 is still stuck at 55 for some reason

[PHLBOS]

And now PA has areas of 70 MPH, while I-95 is still stuck at 55 for some reason

A couple things:

1.  You're preaching to the choir on this one.

2.  PA re-established the 65 mph limit just before (within months) the NSL was fully repealed.  During the 1994 campaign for governor, every candidate but one (Lynn Yeakel) supported increasing the rural Interstate speed limit to 65; so the push for the latter predated the federal push for the former.  As a result, only rural Interstates got the higher 65 mph limit initially; with I-95 going through Philly plus Delaware & Buck Counties, PennDOT did not consider their sections of I-95 to be rural Interstates (as defined by the Feds.).

Later on, some rural non-Interstate highways (example: the freeway section of US 222 between Reading & Lancaster) received the higher 65 mph limit as well; but, to date, no other highway/expressway within the southeastern 5 counties (Philadelphia, Bucks, Montgomerey, Chester & Bucks Counties) ever got the higher limit except for the PA Turnpike (I-276) and the lower part of the Northeast Extension (I-476).

[bzakharin]

And now PA has areas of 70 MPH, while I-95 is still stuck at 55 for some reason

A couple things:

1.  You're preaching to the choir on this one.

2.  PA re-established the 65 mph limit just before (within months) the NSL was fully repealed.  During the 1994 campaign for governor, every candidate but one (Lynn Yeakel) supported increasing the rural Interstate speed limit to 65; so the push for the latter predated the federal push for the former.  As a result, only rural Interstates got the higher 65 mph limit initially; with I-95 going through Philly plus Delaware & Buck Counties, PennDOT did not consider their sections of I-95 to be rural Interstates (as defined by the Feds.).

Later on, some rural non-Interstate highways (example: the freeway section of US 222 between Reading & Lancaster) received the higher 65 mph limit as well; but, to date, no other highway/expressway within the southeastern 5 counties (Philadelphia, Bucks, Montgomerey, Chester & Bucks Counties) ever got the higher limit except for the PA Turnpike (I-276) and the lower part of the Northeast Extension (I-476).

But there was no NSL when 70 MPH was approved

[PHLBOS]

But there was no NSL when 70 MPH was approved

That is correct and has nothing to do with PA's (& other northeastern states') dragging their feet when 65 was first allowed again for certain highways that was recently commented on in this thread.

The recent (almost a year old now) bump-up to 70 mph was last-minute add-on to Act 89 (which raises the gas tax for additional transportation funding) that then-Gov. Corbett signed into law; and, for the time being, only applies to erected on certain highways (portions of I-80, the PA Turnpike (I-76) & I-380) on an experimental/trial basis.  Plans/decisions to further expand the higher limit to other highway segments would be later subject to review.  Such The 70 mph limit was viewed as throwing taxpayers a bone for raising their gas taxes.

Personal speculation: had Wolf been governor a year ago; those roads would've never seen a 70 mph limit.

[vdeane]

Regarding I-95, it's pretty substandard, including the fact that it has NO acceleration lanes to speak of.  That probably factors into it being 55.

I don't believe PA's 70 law legislatively defines what places can be 70.  PennDOT and the PTC are currently testing 70, which is why it's limited right now, and may be posting more 70 zones later this year.

http://www.thecourierexpress.com/news/article_2fe29238-8332-11e4-9fe1-03ac28fc9455.html

[jp the roadgeek]

"Here" being almost all of the Northeast?  Don't expect a lot of movement on these numbers up here.  You likely don't remember how begrudgingly this region even adopted 65 mph in the 1990s.

Not to get political here but in at least three of those Northeast states (MA, NY & PA); the speed limit increase to 65 (on rural Interstates) only occurred after there was a change in governors (&, coincidentally, political parties).

MA: Dukakis to Weld circa 1991
NY: Mario Cuomo to Pataki circa 1995
PA: Casey, Sr. to Ridge circa 1995

Note: above-listed years are when the successor governors were actually sworn into office.

In NJ, it wasn't until NJ 101.5 FM went on an all-out assault with the issue and prompted listeners to flood the State Legislatures and then-Gov. Whitman's offices with calls/letters/e-mails regarding such.

Don't forget the NMSL repeal came about only after both houses of Congress changed hands in 1994 (well, after the 1994 election).

CT had to be dragged in kicking and screaming to the 65 party in 1998. You knew you were hitting the border when you saw Reduced Speed Ahead signs. The Land of Steady Habits is last to conform to anything.  It took us till 2 years ago to get Sunday liquor sales and stores still can't sell after 9pm

[1995hoo]

Maryland used to have black-on-yellow "STILL!" signs above their "Speed Limit 55" signs when you crossed the state line from Virginia during the Schaefer Administration. They were removed shortly after he left office when they finally allowed 65 (he had consistently opposed 65). I always thought the "STILL!" signs were stupid because the Beltway, which is where I saw them all the time, wasn't eligible for a 65-mph limit back then anyway due to the NMSL's "rural" limitation.

[PHLBOS]

Regarding I-95, it's pretty substandard, including the fact that it has NO acceleration lanes to speak of.  That probably factors into it being 55.

Yes & no.  While there are some substandard sections (mainly older segments through Northeast Philly & Chester, the former is presently being reconstructed); there are other sections that are not substandard (example: the final piece by the airport that was opened in 1985 and the section between I-676 and I-76).

That said and if PA was willing; most of I-95 outside of Philly could handle a 65 limit and the city portion could handle a 60 mph limit.

Again, changing the speed limit on I-95 wasn't even on PennDOT's radar when rural Interstates were allowed to go up to 65 because PA's original plan predated the Feds completely abolishing the NSL.

I don't believe PA's 70 law legislatively defines what places can be 70.  PennDOT and the PTC are currently testing 70, which is why it's limited right now, and may be posting more 70 zones later this year.

http://www.thecourierexpress.com/news/article_2fe29238-8332-11e4-9fe1-03ac28fc9455.html

Trust me, not one expressway segment in the 5 southeastern (Greater Philadelphia) counties will ever see a 70 mph limit.

[SD Mapman]

Looks like South Dakota is now actually considering lowering some stretches of highways back to 75 mph due to some safety concerns:
http://siouxcityjournal.com/news/not-so-fast-transportation-officials-checking-south-dakota-s-mph/article_b1c61b0b-c756-57c5-b051-9ae49f5302f1.html

That is the main problem with a blanket approach to speed limits; other states who have raised their speed limits to 80 mph have been doing so on a case-by-case basis where a traffic study deems the speed is appropriate for a particular stretch of highway.

There's nothing wrong with that - 80 until proven otherwise is more fair and equitable than having to justify what should be 80.

I'm betting 90 from WY to Rapid will go back down to 75. Not sure about East River though.

[jeffandnicole]

Regarding I-95, it's pretty substandard, including the fact that it has NO acceleration lanes to speak of.  That probably factors into it being 55.

Yes & no.  While there are some substandard sections (mainly older segments through Northeast Philly & Chester, the former is presently being reconstructed); there are other sections that are not substandard (example: the final piece by the airport that was opened in 1985 and the section between I-676 and I-76).

I just drove a friend to the airport this morning.  What a disaster the pavement is in that area now!  And before the winter I thought it was in good shape.  I mean, I know we have potholes around, but the airport exit from 95 South was a mile long patchjob!

I never found the accel lanes to be horrendously bad on 95 (at least the areas that aren't under construction), and in some cases they're downright decent.  No doubt some are short, but compared to some highways in PA, they're not bad.

[PHLBOS]

I just drove a friend to the airport this morning.  What a disaster the pavement is in that area now!  And before the winter I thought it was in good shape.  I mean, I know we have potholes around, but the airport exit from 95 South was a mile long patchjob!

Following last year's (early 2014) winter snowstorms; much of the pavement along I-95 in and around the airport interchange itself was so bad in terms of potholes that the road (at least the inner mainline lanes) had to be completely resurfaced.

[vdeane]

I was referring to I-95 north of Philly; in other words, the portion that would actually be 65 in other northeastern states.  South of Philly, it's pretty suburban and would be 55 in most parts of NY as well.

I don't believe PA's 70 law legislatively defines what places can be 70.  PennDOT and the PTC are currently testing 70, which is why it's limited right now, and may be posting more 70 zones later this year.

http://www.thecourierexpress.com/news/article_2fe29238-8332-11e4-9fe1-03ac28fc9455.html

Trust me, not one expressway segment in the 5 southeastern (Greater Philadelphia) counties will ever see a 70 mph limit.

The reason for my comment was because your earlier post made it sound like 70 was legislatively defined to apply only to the sections where it's 70 now (italics in quote below are mine).

The recent (almost a year old now) bump-up to 70 mph was last-minute add-on to Act 89 (which raises the gas tax for additional transportation funding) that then-Gov. Corbett signed into law; and only applies to certain highways (portions of I-80, the PA Turnpike (I-76) & I-380).  Such was viewed as throwing taxpayers a bone for raising their gas taxes.

[PHLBOS]

I was referring to I-95 north of Philly; in other words, the portion that would actually be 65 in other northeastern states.

If you're referring to the stretch in Bucks County, much of which will be redesignated as I-395 once the new I-95/PA Turnpike ramps are constructed; most of it south of the Scudder Falls Bridge & interchange 51A-B was constructed during the late 1960s to the Interstate standards that existed at that time.  So a 65 limit for that stretch, sans the bridge, would not be an issue IMHO.  Some old-timers that either lived and/or drove in the area can shed some light towards what highways in Greater Philly (including that stretch of I-95) had 60 or 65 mph speed limits Pre-NSL.

South of Philly, it's pretty suburban

Except for the City of Chester; I-95 runs right through it between I-476 & US 322 for about 3 to 4 miles.

The reason for my comment was because your earlier post made it sound like 70 was legislatively defined to apply only to the sections where it's 70 now.

I have since modifed my earlier post; but my earlier points regarding 70 mph limits coming to Greater Philadelphia or being added to more roadways still stand.

The only way I see the latter happening is if the State Legislature (which is actually more conservative & Republican than it was under Corbett) has enough push & votes to overcome a veto from Gov. Wolf.  Personally, I just don't see Gov. Wolf (who has a different transportation secretary) moving on his own to expand the 70 mph limit to other highways.

[corco]

To update on the Montana senate bill, it has now made it out of house committee to the floor. (http://leg.mt.gov/bills/2015/billpdf/SB0375.pdf)

A few changes were made to neuter the bill in a way that I doubt the highway patrol likes:

- 80 MPH for cars is still the new rural interstate speed limit

- The speed at which speeding tickets get reported to insurance went from 85 as proposed in the original bill to 90

- The speeding fine for 1-10 over on rural interstates is $40 (when it came to committee, 1-5 was $40 and 5-10 was like $100). Essentially, 89 MPH in the 80 would be a $40 ticket that isn't allowed to be reported to insurance, the way it's written now. That's consistent with the situation on the road today (84 in a 75 is a $20 ticket), which is good, but I think the highway patrol wanted to see stiffer fines at those higher speeds.

- The statutorily-defined areas where the speed limit can remain at 75 were removed (the proposed bill had said things like I-90 from Idaho to Missoula could remain 75 at MDT's discretion), but it appears to now give MDT discretion across the whole state to establish temporary 75 zones:

PENDING completion of an engineering and traffic investigation as provided for in subsection (1), the commission may temporarily set a speed limit of not less than 75 miles an hour on a segment of the federal-aid interstate highway system that it reasonably believes is not suitable for the limit established in 61-8-303(1)(a).

Oddly, when SB 375 was originally proposed, one of the primary ideas was to narrow the car/truck split speed limits. As the bill is now, truck speeds would remain at 65, so it'd be 80 car/65 truck on interstates and 70 car/60 truck on other rural highways.

[Pink Jazz]

Looks like Governor Jay Inslee of Washington has killed the 75 mph bill:
http://www.king5.com/story/news/local/2015/04/22/governor-jay-inslee-speed-limit-bill/26190949/

[jakeroot]

Looks like Governor Jay Inslee of Washington has killed the 75 mph bill:
http://www.king5.com/story/news/local/2015/04/22/governor-jay-inslee-speed-limit-bill/26190949/

Only partially. He waved the increased limit, but allocated funds to study where speed limits could be increased past 70. In the long run, this is probably a good idea, so the next time a bill comes around, a study exists to back the bill up.

[nexus73]

Looks like Governor Jay Inslee of Washington has killed the 75 mph bill:
http://www.king5.com/story/news/local/2015/04/22/governor-jay-inslee-speed-limit-bill/26190949/

Only partially. He waved the increased limit, but allocated funds to study where speed limits could be increased past 70. In the long run, this is probably a good idea, so the next time a bill comes around, a study exists to back the bill up.

Gotta spend that study money to keep the bureaucrats happy...LOL!  Jeez gov, don't you realize traffic regulates itself?  Just try to go 75 on a crowded freeway.  If it is empty at 3 AM, who cares?

Rick

[froggie]

It's not that easy, especially when it comes to legalese and today's litigatious society...

[nexus73]

It's not that easy, especially when it comes to legalese and today's litigatious society...

Have you heard of a state being sued due to a higher speed limit?  I have not seen any such news along those lines but if you have, please do share!

Rick

[jakeroot]

It's not that easy, especially when it comes to legalese and today's litigatious society...

Have you heard of a state being sued due to a higher speed limit?  I have not seen any such news along those lines but if you have, please do share!

If a state arbitrarily raises a speed limit without cause, it's incredibly easy for a committee to form and knock it back down. Media outlets and overly-protective citizens love to attack high speed limits -- give them something to chew on.

As much as I was looking forward to 75, I'm not in distress. The study doesn't put a cap on a speed limit that a study might find acceptable, so in theory, WSDOT could find portions of interstates or other freeways capable of an 80 mph speed limit. Given that, the state legislature could put forward a bill next year to increase the maximum allowable speed limit to something higher than 75 (since 75 is such a small step... 80 or bust!)

[corco]

It's not that easy, especially when it comes to legalese and today's litigatious society...

Have you heard of a state being sued due to a higher speed limit?  I have not seen any such news along those lines but if you have, please do share!

Rick

I don't even know what the argument would be- you'd have to argue that the state legislature somehow acted contrary to the U.S. or state constitutions when raising the speed limit. No earthly idea what the argument in the US constitution would be, and unless a state constitution had some weird public participation clause that requires certain types of bills to go to the voters or something I don't know what that would be either.

The state can't be held negligent for its legislature passing a law to raise a speed limit and then carrying out that law (unless it is unconstitutional), because the legislature theoretically represents the will of the people. It could only be negligent if, say, a law passed reducing the speed limit to 65 and then the state didn't change the signs to lower the speed limit and somehow a bunch of people died in a way clearly related to that failure by the state, and even that might be pushing it.

I drove I-5 from Portland up to Seattle yesterday- now that it is six lanes wide for most of the trek, the traffic really isn't bad and the highway could easily support a higher speed limit. I'd also add that since I first started doing the Tacoma-Seattle slog 8 years ago (realizing that that stretch wouldn't be affected by this bill), cars have sped up. When I first moved to Tacoma and got a car in 2006, traffic used to move at 65 or so- push to 70 and you're in the left lanes battling for position. Yesterday I drove it at 72-75 MPH, only rarely entering one of the left two lanes. This at 6:30 PM on a weeknight, so a decent amount of traffic.

[jakeroot]

realizing that that stretch wouldn't be affected by this bill

Actually, that was one of the reasons Inslee shot half the bill down. It grew to include many other places beyond I-90, including I-5, US-395, and so on.

[gonealookin]

At today's hearing of Nevada's Assembly Transportation Committee, the director of Nevada DOT spoke in opposition to the increase from 75 mph to 80 mph:

Representatives from the Nevada Department of Transportation, the Nevada Highway Patrol and the Washoe County Sheriff's Office opposed the bill.

"Our goal is zero fatalities and we feel that the negatives outweigh the positives when people are driving faster on our roadways,"  said Rudy Malfabon, the director of the Nevada Department of Transportation.

"While increasing the speed limit may save some time, our concern is that an increase in severe injuries and fatalities will also result,"  Malfabon said.

The legislature does not set speed limits in Nevada; NDOT does.  It certainly sets up a confrontation if the Assembly passes the bill and the governor signs it.

[jakeroot]

From above...

"Our goal is zero fatalities"

Shit like this drives me up a fucking wall. Zero fatalities? Really? Aim for something realistic, something achievable.

[The Nature Boy]

From above...

"Our goal is zero fatalities"

Shit like this drives me up a fucking wall. Zero fatalities? Really? Aim for something realistic, something achievable.

When you're dealing with elected officials, you have to say something totally ridiculous but politically popular.

Welcome to democracy.