Two lane exit from single lane

[mrsman]

Brian,

The situation you describe doesn't seem terribly unsafe.  During normal operations, drivers in the right lane can either stay on I-80 or exit directly onto either lane of the exit.

During snow periods, each lane of I-80 must transition onto this exit, so drivers in the right lane must be careful to make a hard right and leave room for the left lane, even though there is no signage or a lane line that show this transition (left lane turning right). 

The Streetview shows cones.  Do you know if they routinely use cones to help delineate the turn during snow emergencies?

[Duke87]

There seems to be some misunderstanding as to what I'm talking about, so maybe a simplified diagram would be clearer.

The two key characteristics are: 1.) No lane drop, and 2.) Two theoretical gore points (one for each exit lane) touching the edge line of the through lane.

So would you consider this a #1 or a #2? Like a #2, there is a solid line which makes makes the two split points not immediately adjacent, but on the other hand unlike a #2 there is no lane drop. It's kind of a #1/#2 hybrid, I guess.

At any rate, this used to be a single lane exit and an example of a #4 up until maybe about 15 years ago. Then NYSDOT restriped it in an attempt to move cars off the exit a little faster and alleviate a nasty bottleneck at this location. It of course hasn't helped one bit because the whole damn interchange is way underpowered and needs to just be blown up and rebuilt from scratch. But this is downstate New York, so that will never happen.

[jakeroot]

There seems to be some misunderstanding as to what I'm talking about, so maybe a simplified diagram would be clearer.

The two key characteristics are: 1.) No lane drop, and 2.) Two theoretical gore points (one for each exit lane) touching the edge line of the through lane.

So would you consider this a #1 or a #2? Like a #2, there is a solid line which makes makes the two split points not immediately adjacent, but on the other hand unlike a #2 there is no lane drop. It's kind of a #1/#2 hybrid, I guess.

At any rate, this used to be a single lane exit and an example of a #4 up until maybe about 15 years ago. Then NYSDOT restriped it in an attempt to move cars off the exit a little faster and alleviate a nasty bottleneck at this location. It of course hasn't helped one bit because the whole damn interchange is way underpowered and needs to just be blown up and rebuilt from scratch. But this is downstate New York, so that will never happen.

From my point of view, it looks like an exit only lane forms on the right for a very brief moment, with an option lane on the left as it exits.

[briantroutman]

So would you consider this a #1 or a #2? Like a #2, there is a solid line which makes makes the two split points not immediately adjacent, but on the other hand unlike a #2 there is no lane drop. It's kind of a #1/#2 hybrid, I guess.

Yeah...kind of a #1/#2 hybrid. It's hard to tell from the satellite image, but measuring what looks to be the extent of the "exit lane"  using Google Earth's ruler tool, it appears to be about 300 feet from the beginning of the exit lane striping to the gore point. Strictly on its measurable merits, I suppose it's closer to a #1, but subjectively, it strikes me more like the #2 type.

[vtk]

There's a bit of a gray area between #1 and #5, but I think the distinction is relevant. With the striping in #1, two cars riding nose-to-tail in the right lane could exit simultaneously–easily and neatly. Even though the pavement surface is essentially identical in #5, the striping forces it to act more like #4, where vehicles would exit single file and then fan out to fill both lanes where the divider striping appears.

The examples I came up with, which are no longer extant, were something between #1 and #5, closer to #5.  The broken line between the two exit lanes began exactly at the gore point:

[Roadsguy]

In the Philly area, PA 291's SB exit to SB I-95 off the Platt Bridge does this, as well as the I-676 exit from SB I-95 as the two lanes of the ramp continue to the Vine Street Expressway, with two lanes peeling off for Callowhill Street and the Ben Franklin Bridge.

Both are more #5 than #1. #1 seems like a goofy way of striping it.

[blanketcomputer]

Sorry for bumping an old thread. Arizona's Loop 202 has a westbound double exit at Hawes Rd seen here https://goo.gl/maps/LKJLo that seems to be a mix of type 1 and 2. Drivers in the right lane can bear right into the far right exit only lane without any auxiliary lane. If drivers don't take this first exit lane, they can again choose to bear right for Hawes Road or remain straight for Loop 202.  The right lane has the option to bear right twice with a thick solid white line between the exiting two lanes.

I think it looks like type 2 at first glance except that there is no dotted line marking the furthest right lane as an exit, it simply bears off from the right lane making it more like type 1. Before the construction of SR 24, this exit definitely was type 2 because the right lane was dotted and marked as exit only a good distance before the exit instead of branching off from the right lane.

[Brandon]

Found a similar one around here: I-80 and IL-47, Morris, IL.

[UCFKnights]

Not a highway but nevertheless still an example at Florida SR50/SR520
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Orlando,+FL/@28.5396672,-81.0834836,51m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x88e773d8fecdbc77:0xac3b2063ca5bf9e!6m1!1e1?hl=en

[jakeroot]

Not a highway but nevertheless still an example at Florida SR50/SR520
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Orlando,+FL/@28.5396672,-81.0834836,51m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x88e773d8fecdbc77:0xac3b2063ca5bf9e!6m1!1e1?hl=en

If I remember the conversation correctly, this is an example of exactly what the OP is/was looking for.

[cl94]

Meadowbrook Pkwy/Bay Pkwy interchange at Jones Beach State Park on Long Island has them-for every ramp. The loop in the SE quadrant goes to THREE lanes, then merges with 2 lanes of Bay Pkwy to form a 3-lane carriageway. There's another case on Wantagh Parkway not far from here.

[briantroutman]

Sorry for bumping an old thread. Arizona's Loop 202 has a westbound double exit at Hawes Rd seen here https://goo.gl/maps/LKJLo that seems to be a mix of type 1 and 2.

That one kind of leans between #1 and #2, but I'm more inclined to put it in the #2 category.

Found a similar one around here: I-80 and IL-47, Morris, IL.

I'd say that's definitely a #3.

Not a highway but nevertheless still an example at Florida SR50/SR520
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Orlando,+FL/@28.5396672,-81.0834836,51m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x88e773d8fecdbc77:0xac3b2063ca5bf9e!6m1!1e1?hl=en

Yes, that's exactly what I was looking for.

Meadowbrook Pkwy/Bay Pkwy interchange at Jones Beach State Park on Long Island has them-for every ramp. The loop in the SE quadrant goes to THREE lanes, then merges with 2 lanes of Bay Pkwy to form a 3-lane carriageway. There's another case on Wantagh Parkway not far from here.

I'd say those are all #3s, #4s, or maybe #5s, depending on whether the exit lane drops or not.

What's missing from a lot of these examples is the unusualness of the two-lane exit's broken lane divider line going all the way back to the edge line of the through lanes, as in the diagram for #1 illustrates–with no through lane being dropped. As mentioned before the #5 type is quite similar to #1, but the key difference is that these tend to behave more like standard one-lane exits that divide into two lanes, whereas #1 clearly creates two separate paths from the right through lane into the two different exit lanes.

#1 seems like a goofy way of striping it.

That's precisely why the arrangement caught my attention when I first saw it in Wyoming.

[GaryV]

WB I-94 exit to I-75 in midtown Detroit is almost exactly a #1, with a little bit of an arc to the exit.  Google maps doesn't have a clear view of it.

[blanketcomputer]

Sorry for bumping an old thread. Arizona's Loop 202 has a westbound double exit at Hawes Rd seen here https://goo.gl/maps/LKJLo that seems to be a mix of type 1 and 2.

That one kind of leans between #1 and #2, but I'm more inclined to put it in the #2 category.

What's missing from a lot of these examples is the unusualness of the two-lane exit's broken lane divider line going all the way back to the edge line of the through lanes, as in the diagram for #1 illustrates–with no through lane being dropped. As mentioned before the #5 type is quite similar to #1, but the key difference is that these tend to behave more like standard one-lane exits that divide into two lanes, whereas #1 clearly creates two separate paths from the right through lane into the two different exit lanes.

I lean more for #1, just with a bit of a curve. (Blue line is my emphasis on an imaginary right shoulder line continuing through the exit)

Two separate exits lanes are created from the right lane without dropping a through lane. It also meets an earlier stated requirement for two cars riding nose-to-tail being able exit simultaneously.

[rickmastfan67]

There seems to be some misunderstanding as to what I'm talking about, so maybe a simplified diagram would be clearer.

Here's a good example of #1.  This is SB US-19 in Cranberry, PA ramp onto I-79 SB.  https://goo.gl/maps/cscSY

[jeffandnicole]

There seems to be some misunderstanding as to what I’m talking about, so maybe a simplified diagram would be clearer.

Here's a good example of #1.  This is SB US-19 in Cranberry, PA ramp onto I-79 SB.  https://goo.gl/maps/cscSY

It looks like #5 to me.

[cl94]

#1 and #5 are basically the same thing. 1 just extends the line a little further. People probably treat 1 and 5 the same way.

[blanketcomputer]

#1 and #5 are basically the same thing. 1 just extends the line a little further. People probably treat 1 and 5 the same way.

I think the main difference between #1 and #5 is that two exiting cars would technically have to cross into the single exit lane one after another before the exit is marked as two lanes. With #1, two cars can decide to exit and cross the dashed exit line at the same exact time into the two separate lanes, and legally do it without crossing a gore or cutting into a lane only marked for one vehicle. For #5, depending on the distance between the exit and when the lane line begins, if drivers treated it like #1, two cars could be in an area technically marked for one vehicle.

[cl94]

#1 and #5 are basically the same thing. 1 just extends the line a little further. People probably treat 1 and 5 the same way.

I think the main difference between #1 and #5 is that two exiting cars would technically have to cross into the single exit lane one after another before the exit is marked as two lanes. With #1, two cars can decide to exit and cross the dashed exit line at the same exact time into the two separate lanes, and legally do it without crossing a gore or cutting into a lane only marked for one vehicle. For #5, depending on the distance between the exit and when the lane line begins, if drivers treated it like #1, two cars could be in an area technically marked for one vehicle.

I mean that, if a lane is wide enough for 2 cars, 2 cars will use it regardless of legality. Don't know about the rest of the country, but many 2-lane streets with on-street parking around here are treated as 4 lanes if there are no parked cars. Same logic applies. I'm referring to practice, not theory.

[jakeroot]

I mean that, if a lane is wide enough for 2 cars, 2 cars will use it regardless of legality. Don't know about the rest of the country, but many 2-lane streets with on-street parking around here are treated as 4 lanes if there are no parked cars. Same logic applies. I'm referring to practice, not theory.

Interesting. Would you consider these to be examples of four-lanes without cars, two-lanes with? I use these roads on a regular basis, and I will occasionally pass on the right, but I get a lot of dirty looks.

[admtrap]

I-5 northbound's exit to I-605.  Slightly justified in that the two lanes are marked for different directions on 605.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9359312,-118.0927044,284m/data=!3m1!1e3

[jeffandnicole]

I mean that, if a lane is wide enough for 2 cars, 2 cars will use it regardless of legality. Don't know about the rest of the country, but many 2-lane streets with on-street parking around here are treated as 4 lanes if there are no parked cars. Same logic applies. I'm referring to practice, not theory.

Interesting. Would you consider these to be examples of four-lanes without cars, two-lanes with? I use these roads on a regular basis, and I will occasionally pass on the right, but I get a lot of dirty looks.

If you truly do that, that is clearly a 2 lane road.  But I would hope you're just saying you pass on the right as an example. 

[cl94]

I mean that, if a lane is wide enough for 2 cars, 2 cars will use it regardless of legality. Don't know about the rest of the country, but many 2-lane streets with on-street parking around here are treated as 4 lanes if there are no parked cars. Same logic applies. I'm referring to practice, not theory.

Interesting. Would you consider these to be examples of four-lanes without cars, two-lanes with? I use these roads on a regular basis, and I will occasionally pass on the right, but I get a lot of dirty looks.

If you truly do that, that is clearly a 2 lane road.  But I would hope you're just saying you pass on the right as an example.

Those are 2 lanes. Some of the streets I'm talking about have 20 foot lanes as they are striped.

[davewiecking]

I mean that, if a lane is wide enough for 2 cars, 2 cars will use it regardless of legality. Don't know about the rest of the country, but many 2-lane streets with on-street parking around here are treated as 4 lanes if there are no parked cars. Same logic applies. I'm referring to practice, not theory.

Interesting. Would you consider these to be examples of four-lanes without cars, two-lanes with? I use these roads on a regular basis, and I will occasionally pass on the right, but I get a lot of dirty looks.

I would never consider passing on the right along that street, and am not surprised that doing so generates dirty looks. Exception: a car is turning left into a side street/driveway (either stopped, or slowing with turn signal on)-I would definitely pass them on the right.

[Brandon]

I mean that, if a lane is wide enough for 2 cars, 2 cars will use it regardless of legality. Don't know about the rest of the country, but many 2-lane streets with on-street parking around here are treated as 4 lanes if there are no parked cars. Same logic applies. I'm referring to practice, not theory.

Interesting. Would you consider these to be examples of four-lanes without cars, two-lanes with? I use these roads on a regular basis, and I will occasionally pass on the right, but I get a lot of dirty looks.

If you truly do that, that is clearly a 2 lane road.  But I would hope you're just saying you pass on the right as an example.

Those are 2 lanes. Some of the streets I'm talking about have 20 foot lanes as they are striped.

Here's some Chicago examples, and yes, they do act as though they are four lanes.

Fullerton Avenue
63rd Street Note the truck passing the bus.
And in the other direction on 63rd Street
87th Street Note the vehicle having to move left to avoid a parked car.  That's fairly common.