Left Lane Ends?

Started by bzakharin, June 18, 2015, 10:49:31 AM

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jeffandnicole

Quote from: bzakharin on June 18, 2015, 02:04:40 PM
Quote from: froggie on June 18, 2015, 01:18:28 PM
QuoteIsn't it dangerous for the faster / passing lane to just end?

Other way around, actually.  As Jeff noted earlier, the basic premise is to keep right except to pass.  Ending the right lane causes complications to that, especially in high truck volume areas where the trucks are often not allowed in the left lane.  As for your more recent post, theoretically you should have adequate signage and time to know a lane is ending so that you can adjust passing accordingly (or just not pass).

At least in my area, trucks are allowed in the *center* lane and often hang out in there long term going slightly faster than the trucks in the right lane. If the left lane ends they are suddenly not allowed to be in the lane they were in before, so how is that better?

In nearly all cases, trucks are allowed in both lanes when the highway is 2 lanes wide.  When narrowing from 3 lanes to 2, the center lane becomes the left lane, which they are permitted to use.

QuoteAs for "keep right except to pass", many people I personally know (myself not included) as well as many I observe while driving stay in the center lane regardless of traffic volume in the right lane until their exit is coming up. I don't believe doing this is illegal in the same way as being in the left lane is.

Which part of "keep right except to pass" do you not get?  Yes, it's illegal to ride the center lane when not passing anyone.  More so when you figure that's a trucker's passing lane.  Just because cops don't tend to pull people over when they're in the center lane doesn't make it legal.

For what it's worth, I think you're going to have a hard time finding anything that shows left lane ends have a higher accident rate than right lane ends.  When signed properly, which they usually are, both should have a very low accident rate.  Thus, you're kinda getting aggravated when people defend the left lane ends, even though you have no basis that the right lane ends are any safer.


Zeffy

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 18, 2015, 11:47:28 PM
For what it's worth, I think you're going to have a hard time finding anything that shows left lane ends have a higher accident rate than right lane ends.  When signed properly, which they usually are, both should have a very low accident rate.  Thus, you're kinda getting aggravated when people defend the left lane ends, even though you have no basis that the right lane ends are any safer.

Sometimes, I think they are worse when you have a setup like this: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.438315,-74.507985,3a,22y,223.18h,87.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUBkN4XiE2a3ZxXMtJ3aMmw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

You have cars turning out of the gas station on a busy arterial, and you have cars zipping by everyone trying to get ahead of everyone before the lane ends. This is something I believe NJDOT is trying to fix, thankfully.
Life would be boring if we didn't take an offramp every once in a while

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roadman65

The OP sounds like a lodge brother of mine who commented on the lane drops in Orlando, FL on John Young Parkway.  He used to say we in Florida were the only one's that did this as other states, he claimed, all drop the right lane.

On JYP it was mainly to allow expansion as the center median was always used to add lanes and now all those drops he complained about are all gone.  In fact the right lane drops now at Osceola Parkway at its south end.  That being said is one of those overhead EXIT ONLY arrows on the BGS that folks ignore and make those last minute efforts to get back in the through lanes. 

If the right side exits you will have unsafe lane changes as no one comprehends the meaning of EXIT ONLY on black on yellow tabs over the doomed lane.  Other than that it functions better than the left drop.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

cl94

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 18, 2015, 11:47:28 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on June 18, 2015, 02:04:40 PM
Quote from: froggie on June 18, 2015, 01:18:28 PM
QuoteIsn't it dangerous for the faster / passing lane to just end?

Other way around, actually.  As Jeff noted earlier, the basic premise is to keep right except to pass.  Ending the right lane causes complications to that, especially in high truck volume areas where the trucks are often not allowed in the left lane.  As for your more recent post, theoretically you should have adequate signage and time to know a lane is ending so that you can adjust passing accordingly (or just not pass).

At least in my area, trucks are allowed in the *center* lane and often hang out in there long term going slightly faster than the trucks in the right lane. If the left lane ends they are suddenly not allowed to be in the lane they were in before, so how is that better?

In nearly all cases, trucks are allowed in both lanes when the highway is 2 lanes wide.  When narrowing from 3 lanes to 2, the center lane becomes the left lane, which they are permitted to use.

QuoteAs for "keep right except to pass", many people I personally know (myself not included) as well as many I observe while driving stay in the center lane regardless of traffic volume in the right lane until their exit is coming up. I don't believe doing this is illegal in the same way as being in the left lane is.

Which part of "keep right except to pass" do you not get?  Yes, it's illegal to ride the center lane when not passing anyone.  More so when you figure that's a trucker's passing lane.  Just because cops don't tend to pull people over when they're in the center lane doesn't make it legal.

"Keep right except to pass" is typically a suggestion in the United States. Not a law. They won't pull someone over for going slow in the left lanes because that alone isn't an offense. There is, however, often something else wrong. That would be one of the few cases where the New York law banning things hanging from the rearview mirror would be enforced, for example.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

jakeroot

Quote from: cl94 on June 19, 2015, 12:49:47 PM
"Keep right except to pass" is typically a suggestion in the United States. Not a law. They won't pull someone over for going slow in the left lanes because that alone isn't an offense. There is, however, often something else wrong. That would be one of the few cases where the New York law banning things hanging from the rearview mirror would be enforced, for example.

This map by Jalopnik seems to suggest that the majority of states have some form of "move over" law, though only 10 states require the use of the right lane except when passing or turning left:


Rothman

Quote from: jakeroot on June 19, 2015, 02:49:50 PM
Quote from: cl94 on June 19, 2015, 12:49:47 PM
"Keep right except to pass" is typically a suggestion in the United States. Not a law. They won't pull someone over for going slow in the left lanes because that alone isn't an offense. There is, however, often something else wrong. That would be one of the few cases where the New York law banning things hanging from the rearview mirror would be enforced, for example.

This map by Jalopnik seems to suggest that the majority of states have some form of "move over" law, though only 10 states require the use of the right lane except when passing or turning left:



Where's New York?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

jakeroot

Quote from: Rothman on June 19, 2015, 02:56:02 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 19, 2015, 02:49:50 PM
Quote from: cl94 on June 19, 2015, 12:49:47 PM
"Keep right except to pass" is typically a suggestion in the United States. Not a law. They won't pull someone over for going slow in the left lanes because that alone isn't an offense. There is, however, often something else wrong. That would be one of the few cases where the New York law banning things hanging from the rearview mirror would be enforced, for example.

This map by Jalopnik seems to suggest that the majority of states have some form of "move over" law, though only 10 states require the use of the right lane except when passing or turning left:

Where's New York?

Obviously not a very good map. It counts Puerto Rico as a state and, as you mentioned, completely ignores New York. Though, you can still figure it out by looking at the color.

Big John

Quote from: jakeroot on June 19, 2015, 03:00:07 PM

Obviously not a very good map. It counts Puerto Rico as a state and, as you mentioned, completely ignores New York. Though, you can still figure it out by looking at the color.
and "left lane only for turning" - on a freeway?

cl94

Quote from: jakeroot on June 19, 2015, 03:00:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 19, 2015, 02:56:02 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 19, 2015, 02:49:50 PM
Quote from: cl94 on June 19, 2015, 12:49:47 PM
"Keep right except to pass" is typically a suggestion in the United States. Not a law. They won't pull someone over for going slow in the left lanes because that alone isn't an offense. There is, however, often something else wrong. That would be one of the few cases where the New York law banning things hanging from the rearview mirror would be enforced, for example.

This map by Jalopnik seems to suggest that the majority of states have some form of "move over" law, though only 10 states require the use of the right lane except when passing or turning left:

Where's New York?

Obviously not a very good map. It counts Puerto Rico as a state and, as you mentioned, completely ignores New York. Though, you can still figure it out by looking at the color.

Per definition, a "Move Over" only applies when approaching a stopped stopped emergency vehicle with lights on. What we're referring to are slow travel laws. If you're traveling significantly below the speed limit and conditions require so, you're required in most places to drive adjacent to the shoulder with flashers on. New York has nothing more than this and a left lane truck prohibition on expressways with 6 or more lanes.

As mentioned on several sites listing these laws, such laws are rarely enforced and, as such, typically become unknown by much of the traveling public. The typical person probably doesn't know that there are laws against being a left lane bandit in situations. At this point, they're basically an excuse to pull someone over if something else is expected. In New York, I know from talking to cops that the law is almost exclusively used to pull over suspected drunk drivers.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: cl94 on June 19, 2015, 12:49:47 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 18, 2015, 11:47:28 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on June 18, 2015, 02:04:40 PM
Quote from: froggie on June 18, 2015, 01:18:28 PM
QuoteIsn't it dangerous for the faster / passing lane to just end?

Other way around, actually.  As Jeff noted earlier, the basic premise is to keep right except to pass.  Ending the right lane causes complications to that, especially in high truck volume areas where the trucks are often not allowed in the left lane.  As for your more recent post, theoretically you should have adequate signage and time to know a lane is ending so that you can adjust passing accordingly (or just not pass).

At least in my area, trucks are allowed in the *center* lane and often hang out in there long term going slightly faster than the trucks in the right lane. If the left lane ends they are suddenly not allowed to be in the lane they were in before, so how is that better?

In nearly all cases, trucks are allowed in both lanes when the highway is 2 lanes wide.  When narrowing from 3 lanes to 2, the center lane becomes the left lane, which they are permitted to use.

QuoteAs for "keep right except to pass", many people I personally know (myself not included) as well as many I observe while driving stay in the center lane regardless of traffic volume in the right lane until their exit is coming up. I don't believe doing this is illegal in the same way as being in the left lane is.

Which part of "keep right except to pass" do you not get?  Yes, it's illegal to ride the center lane when not passing anyone.  More so when you figure that's a trucker's passing lane.  Just because cops don't tend to pull people over when they're in the center lane doesn't make it legal.

"Keep right except to pass" is typically a suggestion in the United States. Not a law. They won't pull someone over for going slow in the left lanes because that alone isn't an offense. There is, however, often something else wrong. That would be one of the few cases where the New York law banning things hanging from the rearview mirror would be enforced, for example.

No, it's typically a law.  Depending on the state it may be entirely enforced, but it is most definitely a law in many states.

Quote from: jakeroot on June 19, 2015, 02:49:50 PM

This map by Jalopnik seems to suggest that the majority of states have some form of "move over" law, though only 10 states require the use of the right lane except when passing or turning left:



Yeah, this map is pretty bad.  NJ, for example, requires drivers keep right except to pass.  In this, it's listed as a 'Must move over if driving slower than normal traffic' state, which is absolutely wrong.

jakeroot

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 19, 2015, 03:49:11 PM
Yeah, this map is pretty bad.  NJ, for example, requires drivers keep right except to pass.  In this, it's listed as a 'Must move over if driving slower than normal traffic' state, which is absolutely wrong.


GaryV

Quote from: cl94 on June 18, 2015, 10:47:01 PM
From what I've seen, the left lane tends to end if there are long-term plans to widen the highway beyond the lane drop by adding lanes in the median or if widening was accomplished by adding a lane in the median. Makes construction easier and lessens impact on existing traffic. Ohio does this quite often, as does New York.

That would also be the case with I-75 in MI between Pontiac and Bay City, where it goes from 4 to 3 lanes several times, as it is gradually widened.  (Seems like there's always construction going on in Saginaw County.)  There are some cases where the right lane becomes an exit only lane, such as NB at I-696 and again at I-475.

Bruce

Technically, for single-occupant vehicles the beginning of an HOV lane counts as a lane end.
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Zmapper

CDOT restriped northbound I-25 at CO-66 from a left-lane drop to a right-lane drop last fall. I am not aware of any further public information offering an explanation.

froggie

Looking at aerial imagery, it looked like a cheap way to extend the acceleration lane from 66 onto northbound 25.

shadyjay

I-91NB in North Haven CT drops from 4 lanes to 3 just past Exit 10, with the left lane ending.  SB, the 4th lane begins on the left.  I would think it would be easy to just have the 4th lane become an exit only lane for Exit 10 NB and SB have the 4th lane begin as the acceleration lane from Exit 10.


SSOWorld

What I've seen for lane endings is for - as previous replies mentioned - general lane endings not at interchanges often are the left lane.  When I see right-lane drops it's often just after an interchange - Either this is the case or a hard "EXIT ONLY" is set up.  The former offers an "escape route" for anyone not exiting (Though some jurisdictions post an EXIT ONLY anyway)

Truck lanes a.k.a. Hill-climbing lanes are often if not always the right lane.  Interchange or no, when no longer needed, that lane is dropped.
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

02 Park Ave

Perhaps if they used orange coloured concrete for the last km or so before a right lane became an exit lane it would improve safety.  Drivers not exiting but rather continuing along the road would be forewarned to move left earlier.  :colorful:
C-o-H

SSOWorld

Quote from: 02 Park Ave on June 21, 2015, 12:58:17 PM
Perhaps if they used orange coloured concrete for the last km or so before a right lane became an exit lane it would improve safety.  Drivers not exiting but rather continuing along the road would be forewarned to move left earlier.  :colorful:
Please!  We don't need anymore paint on the road than there is already :banghead:
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

02 Park Ave

It wouldn't be paint but rather a pigment added in concrete processing.
C-o-H

DaBigE

#45
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on June 21, 2015, 01:11:52 PM
It wouldn't be paint but rather a pigment added in concrete processing.

But can you add pigment to asphalt in the same manner as concrete? Torching in color via a skid-resistant overlay doesn't count, (and from my experiences, doesn't last very long where snow plows are active).

IMO, the lane reduction arrow is pavement-based message enough.
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

freebrickproductions

There are a few places in my area where the left lane is dropped, but it's usually the right lane.
US 72 Alt./AL 20 where it joins with US 31 on the north side of the Tennessee River in Decatur:
https://www.google.com/maps/mms?ll=34.629454,-86.951141&spn=0.00099,0.002064&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=34.629461,-86.951289&panoid=oWen0rIf1TYPsGYukpT7MQ&cbp=12,257.23,,0,0.47

Cecil Ashburn Drive in Huntsville (not a highway, but it counts, right?):
https://www.google.com/maps/mms?ll=34.671675,-86.531621&spn=0.000703,0.001032&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=34.671675,-86.531621&panoid=qESIYzYHsZna5IkTmLtG5g&cbp=12,215.68,,0,8.65

Those were the two I could think of off of the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure that there are more of these around here.
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davewiecking

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8487279,-75.8123675,195m/data=!3m1!1e3
Portion of MD 404 was divided/4-laned several years ago; originally right lane ended and traffic was directed to left lane. Later modified so that left lane ends and right lane continues thru (old faded arrows still visible). When driving through this at night in the left lane, it seemed that you were headed directly into oncoming traffic, although I don't know if that's why the change was made.

Zzonkmiles

Quote from: Thing 342 on June 18, 2015, 04:09:48 PM
Common practise in SC I believe, it happens along along I-20 and I-26 (and maybe I-77) leaving Columbia, as well as on I-85 and I-95.

When I-64 narrows from 6 total lanes (4 mainline, 2 c/d) to 2 just past exit 255 in Newport News, the leftmost two lanes drop.

This is definitely common practice in SC. It happens on I-20, 26, 77, 85, and 95 when leaving the metro areas of Columbia, Charleston, Rock Hill, Greenville, Spartanburg and Florence. My guess is that dropping a right lane to an "exit only" ramp would lead to a lot of more traffic merging from the right as opposed to comparatively fewer cars/trucks merging from the left when the leftmost lane drops.

I guess it makes more sense for the left lane to drop because it is likely less disruptive to the overall traffic flow.

KG909

I FUCKING HATE LEFT LANES ENDING. ALSO WHEN A NEW LEFT LANE IS CREATED. I don't know why but it pisses me off.
~Fuccboi