Do we have too many counties?

[rawmustard]

The Detroit Free Press's Brian Dickerson has a really interesting column on the number of counties and whether we need as many as we did when they were formed in the 1800s. Some of the statistics aren't all that surprising, but this column should hold some appeal for the county counters, which is a large subsection of the roadgeek community.

[Rothman]

The Detroit Free Press's Brian Dickerson has a really interesting column on the number of counties and whether we need as many as we did when they were formed in the 1800s. Some of the statistics aren't all that surprising, but this column should hold some appeal for the county counters, which is a large subsection of the roadgeek community.

I believe it was Tom Brokaw that called for fewer counties in Iowa some years ago. 

Here in NY, Governor Cuomo has been trying to "incentivize" consolidation amongst our ridiculously complex hierarchy of local entities through tightening state funds that are distributed to them (i.e., here are pennies that could be used if you shared services with your neighbor.  You refuse to do so?  Okay...then you can't afford to provide the services yourselves).

As far as I'm aware, it hasn't worked.

At least here in NY, all those local entities are little fiefdoms.  There is just too much advantage to keeping the status quo rather than dissolving whatever organizations.

Makes you wonder how Massachusetts and other states were able to weaken counties to the point to where they barely exist anymore (i.e., a courthouse and a sheriff and not much else).

[TravelingBethelite]

Makes you wonder how Massachusetts and other states were able to weaken counties to the point to where they barely exist anymore (i.e., a courthouse and a sheriff and not much else).

Here in Connecticut, the counties have no power whatsoever. The only significance they have is for the National Weather Service, to differentiate who they're issuing  weather warnings for.

We need more counties here in CT-or at least split up Fairfield. All the attention is focused on RICH southern Fairfield. 

[Big John]

Talk to Georgia about that.  It is full of small counties.  It is behind only Texas for the most counties in the nation.

[cpzilliacus]

Counties were set-up to allow residents to be able to reach the courthouse (on horseback) and get back home within 1 day of travel.

Except where there are large populations of people that do not use motor vehicles for mobility (large and very dense urban areas such as New York County (Manhattan) and the Amish people being an example), that is (IMO) an obsolete requirement that should be done-away with (and already has been in some states - consider that it is 213 miles (one way) from Needles, California in the far eastern part of the county to the court house in downtown San Bernardino.

[Rothman]

consider that it is 213 miles (one way) from Needles, California in the far eastern part of the county to the court house in downtown San Bernardino.

Still a hike for Needles no matter where they are, but consider that San Bernardino County has courthouses in other places besides just the city.

[oscar]

In Canada, Manitoba earlier this year ruthlessly reduced the number of its municipalities (including the most county-like units, "rural municipalities") by forcible consolidations of municipalities with populations under 1000. Sometimes that was done by folding separate town governments into their surrounding RMs, but in other cases two or even three RMs had to be combined to reach the minimum population threshold. The only remaining small-population municipalities are a few in northern Manitoba, usually isolated ones with no neighbors they could be merged with.

I really wish Saskatchewan would do something like that. It has more RMs (296) than Texas has counties (254), in an area about half the size of Texas, if you exclude the northern half of the province within the sparsely-populated and RM-free Northern Saskatchewan Administration District. Saskatchewan, and even Manitoba post-consolidations, definitely have way too many counties if you consider their RMs to be county equivalents.

[roadman65]

Monroe County, FL not only covers all the keys, but has land on the mainland south of Collier as well.  Nonetheless, its over 130 miles to Key Largo from the courthouse at US 1's southern terminus in Key West.  Then on the mainland by road its further yet via another county probably doubling that. 

No matter where you are on the islands you have a long travel along slow US 1 though any of the Keys if talking about large area and traveling.

[empirestate]

In Canada, Manitoba earlier this year ruthlessly reduced the number of its municipalities (including the most county-like units, "rural municipalities") by forcible consolidations of municipalities with populations under 1000. Sometimes that was done by folding separate town governments into their surrounding RMs, but in other cases two or even three RMs had to be combined to reach the minimum population threshold. The only remaining small-population municipalities are a few in northern Manitoba, usually isolated ones with no neighbors they could be merged with.

Ironically, the most effective way to alleviate the oft-lamented multiple layers of government in the U.S. would be this kind of Canadian-style consolidation imposed by the state legislatures. But of course, the side of the political spectrum that tends to favor reduced layers of government would never condone this kind of overreach by the bigwigs at the state level. In other words, it takes Big Government to effect Less Government, and that's a political paradox in this country.


iPhone

[oscar]

In Canada, Manitoba earlier this year ruthlessly reduced the number of its municipalities (including the most county-like units, "rural municipalities") by forcible consolidations of municipalities with populations under 1000. Sometimes that was done by folding separate town governments into their surrounding RMs, but in other cases two or even three RMs had to be combined to reach the minimum population threshold. The only remaining small-population municipalities are a few in northern Manitoba, usually isolated ones with no neighbors they could be merged with.

Ironically, the most effective way to alleviate the oft-lamented multiple layers of government in the U.S. would be this kind of Canadian-style consolidation imposed by the state legislatures. But of course, the side of the political spectrum that tends to favor reduced layers of government would never condone this kind of overreach by the bigwigs at the state level. In other words, it takes Big Government to effect Less Government, and that's a political paradox in this country.

New Jersey comes to mind as having an inefficient multitude of minor township governments, which gets complained about a lot. But as you say, it takes a fair amount of political will to overcome the whining by the minor-league politicians who would lose their positions. That happened in Manitoba, too, though they had an opportunity to file administrative appeals with the ministry responsible for municipal governments, but in the end the ministry's plan was implemented in full.

Of course, consolidations of local governments are not guaranteed to lead to efficiency. Hawaii, for example, has only four counties (plus tiny, oddball Kalawao County, which is a benevolent co-dictatorship of the state health department and the National Park Service), with no local governments under the county level. And many traditionally local functions (such as K-12 public schools, and libraries) are run by the state. Yet even with one less layer of government, Hawaii is no paragon of efficiency,

[jwolfer]

In Florida (at least in northeast Florida. Maybe influence of consolidation of Duval County and Jacksonville)  the county is the local government for many areas. And not just rural areas. Many incorporated cities don't really have much administrative function. They rely on County government for fire and police service. Really no reason to incorporate when municipal services are provided by County. Yes I know there are exceptions.

Schools are already county wide in Florida.

Maryland has very few incorporated cities. The counties seem to provide municipal functions

In NJ there are so many local governments and school districts, lots of patronage jobs to give out.  It will take lots of political will to eliminate any of them. Although people do identify with County very strongly

[kkt]

Although in Southern California there are some gigantic counties, in the Sierra and far north there are several tiny counties that really ought to be merged.

[empirestate]

Talk to Georgia about that.  It is full of small counties.  It is behind only Texas for the most counties in the nation.

Oddly, given the multitude of relatively small counties in Georgia serving as the predominant form of local government for much of the state, it ends up looking a lot like Connecticut, where, with the abolition of counties, the state is broken up primarily into towns the way Georgia is with counties. And offhand, I'd guess that each comprises an approximately equal percentage of area in one state as it does in the other.

But I'm also willing to wager that, despite their apparent similarity, the prevailing attitude towards the respective efficiency of their local government forms is very different between the two states.


iPhone

[getemngo]

Makes you wonder how Massachusetts and other states were able to weaken counties to the point to where they barely exist anymore (i.e., a courthouse and a sheriff and not much else).

Here in Connecticut, the counties have no power whatsoever. The only significance they have is for the National Weather Service, to differentiate who they're issuing  weather warnings for.

We need more counties here in CT-or at least split up Fairfield. All the attention is focused on RICH southern Fairfield. 

CT's counties are still used to divide up various state court districts, and of course by the Census Bureau to keep track of population.

[GaryV]

I found it interesting that most of the arguments in the article were about the inefficiencies of smaller units of government within the county, not the counties themselves.  It's not the fault of the county that cities, villages and townships took over responsibility for some services.

Also, I don't know if the map in the link is much smaller than what was printed in the newspaper.  I don't know what the shading of certain counties is for.  But Kent County touches Lake Michigan?

[tdindy88]

Looks like the shading for the counties on that map (presumably those of a higher population such as Kent) is off a bit to the west from their actual location. Indianapolis (Marion County) is further west in the state than it ought to be and Louisville (Jefferson County) is located in the middle of Southern Indiana. Last I knew, Ottawa and Allegan Counties separated Kent from Lake Michigan.

[Big John]

^^ And Fulton County GA does not touch Alabama.

[bandit957]

We don't have too many counties. In some states, we don't have enough.

[Pete from Boston]

We need more counties here in CT-or at least split up Fairfield. All the attention is focused on RICH southern Fairfield. 

New Jersey fractured into countless little jurisdictions along just these kinds of issues.  Rich vs. poor, town vs. country, wet vs. dry, etc.  This resulted in the most government per square mile in the country, something that now begets parochialism and inefficiency.  It is not a solution. 

[NWI_Irish96]

I don't think Indiana has too many counties, but I do think that the state needs to do away with townships.  They are a relic from the days when travel was much slower and you needed government at a smaller level of geography than a county.  Now they are just a waste of money. 

[SP Cook]

Obviously, what a county does for people varies from state to state.  The more it does (as opposed to the state, or some subdivision of a county like a township or some overlaying special district) then the more counties you need, because you want government officials to be responsible to a small enough group of people that poor decision makers can be held accountable.

In WV, the only sub-county unit, a district that elected a kangaroo court JP and a (full law enforcement powers, no training at all) constable was abolished in the 70s.  The county pretty much has very limited powers.  Schools are county run, but state funded and the state has taken an increasing role in how the money is spent.  Counties have no roads function at all.  Only a handful of places have water, sewer or garbage functions run by the county.  Jails have been regionalized for 20 years.  Sheriffs provide basic law enforcement, and then you have the standard courthouse functions (taxes, court and land records, probate, and so on).  Welfare is state run.  Libraries are special overlaying districts.  Health departments (free clinics, smoke Nazis, and restaurant inspections) are county based, but mostly state funded.  The court system uses counties as the basis for its districts, but is state funded and state run. 

If you want to change the world, running for County Commissioner isn't your ticket.  You are not in charge of much that is going to really make a difference in anybody's life. 

As the state empties, some pundits have pointed out the savings to be gained by county consolidation.  Every county has highly (especially by rural WV standards) County Commissioners X3, County Clerk, Circuit Clerk, Assessor, Sheriff,  Prosecutor, and their attendent staffs, plus the grossly over-paid Magistrates (at least 2, up to 11) who are non-lawyer small claims judges and their staff.  Plus the vast county Board of Education staffs, and the pretty much county based (though state funded) Circuit Court.  You could cut the 55 counties down to 20 or so and do fine.  But nothing will ever come of it.  Too many people undersand that they can get elected County Clerk and draw $80K for doing not much.

[Brandon]

We don't have too many counties. In some states, we don't have enough.

I would agree in certain areas.  Where you have a lot of counties with populations under 1,000 or so, yes, those should be combined.  On the other hand, you have the 5,000,000 population Cook County, Illinois.  That one should really be split into 3 or 4 counties (with one being coterminous with the City of Chicago) to better serve the residents there.

[roadman65]

In Florida (at least in northeast Florida. Maybe influence of consolidation of Duval County and Jacksonville)  the county is the local government for many areas. And not just rural areas. Many incorporated cities don't really have much administrative function. They rely on County government for fire and police service. Really no reason to incorporate when municipal services are provided by County. Yes I know there are exceptions.

Schools are already county wide in Florida.

Maryland has very few incorporated cities. The counties seem to provide municipal functions

In NJ there are so many local governments and school districts, lots of patronage jobs to give out.  It will take lots of political will to eliminate any of them. Although people do identify with County very strongly

In New Jersey they only identify county as a regional thing to let people know what part of Jersey you are from.  I lived there and right near the Union/ Middlesex County Line, but we never referred to it as such.  We would more call it the Clark/ Colonia Line and even NJ roads posts municipal borders for reference on its state highways over county lines.  In fact county lines do not denote the change for a new county, but the township, borough, city, etc when approaching the county border.

Sales tax is the same per each county, and other than blue laws (which Bergen holds steadfast to till this very day) nothing really takes notice of the counties except that it is the regional identifier for New Jerseyans.

[jwolfer]

In Florida (at least in northeast Florida. Maybe influence of consolidation of Duval County and Jacksonville)  the county is the local government for many areas. And not just rural areas. Many incorporated cities don't really have much administrative function. They rely on County government for fire and police service. Really no reason to incorporate when municipal services are provided by County. Yes I know there are exceptions.

Schools are already county wide in Florida.

Maryland has very few incorporated cities. The counties seem to provide municipal functions

In NJ there are so many local governments and school districts, lots of patronage jobs to give out.  It will take lots of political will to eliminate any of them. Although people do identify with County very strongly

In New Jersey they only identify county as a regional thing to let people know what part of Jersey you are from.  I lived there and right near the Union/ Middlesex County Line, but we never referred to it as such.  We would more call it the Clark/ Colonia Line and even NJ roads posts municipal borders for reference on its state highways over county lines.  In fact county lines do not denote the change for a new county, but the township, borough, city, etc when approaching the county border.

Sales tax is the same per each county, and other than blue laws (which Bergen holds steadfast to till this very day) nothing really takes notice of the counties except that it is the regional identifier for New Jerseyans.

That's exactly what I mean. Regional identifier

[Rothman]

Counties in NJ were also helpful in placing Garden State Parkway toll booths.