Do we have too many counties?

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Minnesota for the most part I think has a good county-population ratio. The glaring exception is St. Louis County, which is the second-largest in the US located east of the Mississippi and has two major population clusters located over an hour apart. However administrative functions are divided between Duluth and Iron Range cities so a person who needs to go to court for a crime in Hibbing would not have to go to Duluth to appear.

[golden eagle]

I definitely believe some counties should be consolidated. How does Loving County, TX, survive on less than 100 people?

[SP Cook]

I always thought Wayne and Cabell counties were poorly drawn-up. Wayne is narrow and tall and includes some of the metro Huntington area, but not the city itself.

Actually a small part of the city is in Wayne County.   The neighborhood of Westmoreland, maybe 5% of the city's population.   Causes all sorts of problems, such as the cops have to deal with the Wayne courts, located 15 miles of not great road south in Wayne, and not the Cabell ones, which are in the city, just up the street. 

But, yeah, remember Huntington did not even exist, either as a city or even as a place people lived, when the counties were drawn.  It was all marshland.  So you end up with Wayne, the northern part of which is very urban or suburban, and the southern part is typical Appalachian coal country.  Very dissimilar regions.

OT, people in the town of Wayne are stereotypically known for their strong accents and would say "Out Wayne" when asked where they lived if they worked in Huntington, to distinguish the town from the county.   They have those fake Euro circles that read "OW" and people that live past the town have "WOW" for "Way Out Wayne".

[empirestate]

Contrary to what Avalanchez may think, a lot of the discussion about consolidating counties in some northern states is coming from conservatives, not liberals.

That certainly seems to be the case in upstate New York, for example, where there has been a recent rash of village dissolutions in rural areas in the hopes of reducing the layers of government and taxation.

But his point about the county having a different relationship in the south is valid, as south of the Mason-Dixon the county is the basic/lowest-level unit of governance whereas New England and New York have towns and most other states from New Jersey to the Dakotas have townships as the basic/lowest-level unit of government.

This is the point I was trying to make earlier comparing Georgia and Connecticut. Georgia seems to be divided into counties, as its basic level of governance, to about the same proportional extent as Connecticut is divided into towns. It looks to me as though, while philosophies will differ on how and why to streamline local governments, there is be an optimal extent of size, in terms of both area and population, at which local government entities tend to feel most comfortable.

[mrsman]

I like the way Maryland does its counties.  The counties (at least the ones that I'm familiar with in the central part of the state) seem to be about the right size.  A drive from one end to the other is still a local trip and can be done in about an hour.  There are 23 counties, and Baltimore is considered an independent city.  (Baltimore City can be considered a separate county for most purposes, separate from suburban Baltimore County.)

Another positive is with the county being the key form of local government, you don't have too many levels of government.  There are only 24 school districts, for instance.

Recently, there was an article about the county executive in PG County wanting to move the county seat from Upper Marlboro, which is in the southeastern part of the county to Largo, which is central, and transit-accessible as most of the population in PG County is close to DC and may be transit reliant.

[Pete from Boston]

I can see a liberal from NY or some Northern state to banter about there being too many counties by looking at a map.

That's JUST LIKE us northern-state liberals–just ignorantly banter on like nobody else has any other valid way of doing things.  We love that!  You nailed us perfectly.

[Rothman]

I can see a liberal from NY or some Northern state to banter about there being too many counties by looking at a map.

That's JUST LIKE us northern-state liberals–just ignorantly banter on like nobody else has any other valid way of doing things.  We love that!  You nailed us perfectly.

I can see a liberal from NY or some Northern state to banter about there being too many counties by looking at a map.

That's JUST LIKE us northern-state liberals–just ignorantly banter on like nobody else has any other valid way of doing things.  We love that!  You nailed us perfectly.

Never mind that some of us hold onto our local entities as strongly as anyone else.

[andrewkbrown]

I definitely believe some counties should be consolidated. How does Loving County, TX, survive on less than 100 people?

About 20 years ago as a kid, I read an article in Reader's Digest about Loving County, TX. "The Loneliest County". Then, just this past week, I saw a pickup truck driving through Washington DC marked for the Loving County Sheriff's Office.

[Pete from Boston]

I can see a liberal from NY or some Northern state to banter about there being too many counties by looking at a map.

That's JUST LIKE us northern-state liberals–just ignorantly banter on like nobody else has any other valid way of doing things.  We love that!  You nailed us perfectly.

I can see a liberal from NY or some Northern state to banter about there being too many counties by looking at a map.

That's JUST LIKE us northern-state liberals–just ignorantly banter on like nobody else has any other valid way of doing things.  We love that!  You nailed us perfectly.

Never mind that some of us hold onto our local entities as strongly as anyone else.

What strikes me as very different from my understanding is the system of townships west of the Appalachians.  I follow the theory and all, but it is so dramatically different from the 567 irregular municipalities I grew up with in (a conservative, anti-any-change part of) New Jersey that I still scratch my head about it, even though it is a simpler, more logical setup in many ways.

[empirestate]

I can see a liberal from NY or some Northern state to banter about there being too many counties by looking at a map.

That's JUST LIKE us northern-state liberals–just ignorantly banter on like nobody else has any other valid way of doing things.  We love that!  You nailed us perfectly.

I can see a liberal from NY or some Northern state to banter about there being too many counties by looking at a map.

That's JUST LIKE us northern-state liberals–just ignorantly banter on like nobody else has any other valid way of doing things.  We love that!  You nailed us perfectly.

Never mind that some of us hold onto our local entities as strongly as anyone else.

And in some densely-populated areas, new ones are being created, in contrast to the trend toward eliminating them in rural areas.

Now I say densely-populated areas, but of course they're suburban, not urban. So I can't tell whether these movements are left- or right-inspired (assuming there's any correlation there at all).

I can say that one reason for incorporating new local governments is to legitimize the extra layers of taxation that already exist in some of these areas, in the form of special districts.


iPhone

[Pink Jazz]

Contrary to what Avalanchez may think, a lot of the discussion about consolidating counties in some northern states is coming from conservatives, not liberals.

In Arizona for Maricopa County it was the opposite; the split of the East Valley was proposed by former state Senator Russell Pearce, an ultra-conservative. 

One dilemma if this were to happen: would Maricopa County keep Sherriff Joe Arpaio, or would he become the Sherriff of the newly created East Valley county?  The East Valley is probably where Arpaio draws his greatest support.

[SD Mapman]

But his point about the county having a different relationship in the south is valid, as south of the Mason-Dixon the county is the basic/lowest-level unit of governance whereas New England and New York have towns and most other states from New Jersey to the Dakotas have townships as the basic/lowest-level unit of government.

This is the point I was trying to make earlier comparing Georgia and Connecticut. Georgia seems to be divided into counties, as its basic level of governance, to about the same proportional extent as Connecticut is divided into towns. It looks to me as though, while philosophies will differ on how and why to streamline local governments, there is be an optimal extent of size, in terms of both area and population, at which local government entities tend to feel most comfortable.

Now I don't know about North Dakota, but South Dakota, especially West River, doesn't demarcate townships very well. We're more "county-city" type than township, I think.

[cpzilliacus]

I like the way Maryland does its counties.  The counties (at least the ones that I'm familiar with in the central part of the state) seem to be about the right size.  A drive from one end to the other is still a local trip and can be done in about an hour.  There are 23 counties, and Baltimore is considered an independent city.  (Baltimore City can be considered a separate county for most purposes, separate from suburban Baltimore County.)

Baltimore City is entirely independent of Baltimore County in terms of governance - just like (all) cities in Virginia are independent of adjoining counties.   In theory, other Maryland cities could become "independent," though it has not happened so far (Annapolis has made threats in the past about seceding from Anne Arundel County and becoming independent, but at least for now, it is part of the county, and Annapolis is Anne Arundel's county seat  in addition to the state capitol).

The Baltimore City water utility does supply water service to a fairly large area of the county, but that's because the city set-up a drinking water supply system long before the county gave it much thought (and much of the water comes from city-owned reservoirs located in Baltimore County).

Another positive is with the county being the key form of local government, you don't have too many levels of government.  There are only 24 school districts, for instance.

Recently, there was an article about the county executive in PG County wanting to move the county seat from Upper Marlboro, which is in the southeastern part of the county to Largo, which is central, and transit-accessible as most of the population in PG County is close to DC and may be transit reliant.

I generally prefer the "southern" approach to local government, which means that counties are frequently the lowest level of local government, and some places have municipal government, but there are usually very large areas that have been left unincorporated (unlike Pennsylvania, where even the most rural of places is part of a township or borough, and some of those municipalities have very small populations).

Regarding Prince George's County, Upper Marlboro has been the county seat since long before anyone heard of Washington (the general, the president or the city). I believe it was designated the county seat not long after the county was established in 1696.

[bandit957]

I'm in one of few counties that has 2 county seats. Campbell County has both Newport and Alexandria as a county seat, and it has a courthouse in each location. But some maps and reference books list only one or the other, not both. I never go to the Alexandria courthouse - always Newport.

A few years ago, some extremists sued to try to have the Newport courthouse closed - for no apparent reason. They lost the case, and the judge ruled that the county has 2 seats.

[Pete from Boston]

I'm in one of few counties that has 2 county seats. Campbell County has both Newport and Alexandria as a county seat, and it has a courthouse in each location. But some maps and reference books list only one or the other, not both. I never go to the Alexandria courthouse - always Newport.

A few years ago, some extremists sued to try to have the Newport courthouse closed - for no apparent reason. They lost the case, and the judge ruled that the county has 2 seats.

I would think that wanting one seat of government falls short of extremism.

We have multiple courthouses, but most of our counties have no real existence beyond a court system, so most people never notice.

[hbelkins]

Pike County has a satellite courthouse in the Belfry/South Williamson area, but it doesn't qualify as two county seats. Officially, Alexandria is listed as the county seat of Campbell County.

[bulldog1979]

Auxiliary courthouses aren't that uncommon. Kent County, Michigan, has multiple judicial districts, each with its own courthouse. Within the county are the 59th District (courthouses in Walker and Grandville), the 61st District (Grand Rapids) 62-A District (Wyoming), 62-B (Kentwood) and 63rd District (the rest of the county with a courthouse in Grand Rapids Township). The county seat though is still Grand Rapids.

Marquette County has a second courthouse in Ishpeming, and Marquette has the primary one as the county seat.

[DandyDan]

I can definitely say Nebraska has too many.  I even remember seeing an article in the Omaha World-Herald once about how Nebraska should consolidate to 28 counties, from 93.  The thing about county consolidation is how do they decide which city should get the courthouse.  Just to cite one example, suppose they consolidated Johnson, Nemaha, Pawnee and Richardson Counties, the 4 in Nebraska's southeast corner.  Who wants to be the one who kills off the city of Auburn (or, alternately, Falls City)?  It seems to me if you take away the county government, more than just the county government goes away.

[bandit957]

Pike County has a satellite courthouse in the Belfry/South Williamson area, but it doesn't qualify as two county seats. Officially, Alexandria is listed as the county seat of Campbell County.

Newport is usually considered the main courthouse. Also, some editions of the World Almanac listed only Newport as the county seat. I don't know if it's still listed like that. Wikipedia lists both county seats.

[bandit957]

Also, Newport makes much more sense as a county seat. To put all the county services in Alexandria would force people in the cities to travel 15 miles out of town just to get their business done.

[iBallasticwolf2]

Also, Newport makes much more sense as a county seat. To put all the county services in Alexandria would force people in the cities to travel 15 miles out of town just to get their business done.

Especially since Newport is at a better spot and higher population than Alexandria. Kenton County has two county seats too. Covington and Independence. What other instances of dual county seats exist?

[bandit957]

Also, Newport makes much more sense as a county seat. To put all the county services in Alexandria would force people in the cities to travel 15 miles out of town just to get their business done.

Especially since Newport is at a better spot and higher population than Alexandria. Kenton County has two county seats too. Covington and Independence. What other instances of dual county seats exist?

No others in Kentucky, but I think Arkansas and Mississippi have some, and I know Iowa has one.

[iBallasticwolf2]

Also, Newport makes much more sense as a county seat. To put all the county services in Alexandria would force people in the cities to travel 15 miles out of town just to get their business done.

Especially since Newport is at a better spot and higher population than Alexandria. Kenton County has two county seats too. Covington and Independence. What other instances of dual county seats exist?

No others in Kentucky, but I think Arkansas and Mississippi have some, and I know Iowa has one.

Here's the Wikipedia list of counties with multiple seats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_seat#U.S._counties_with_more_than_one_county_seat
Looks like Alabama, New York, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Missouri, and Vermont also have at least one dual seat county. Arkansas, Mississippi, and Iowa as you listed also have at least 1 dual seat county. Arkansas seems to be the state with the most.

[SP Cook]

Pike County has a satellite courthouse in the Belfry/South Williamson area.

You think that is a remnant of the era before Corridor G was finished?  It used to be, like, an hour over bad road to Pikeville.  Now its just a few minutes of safe and fast driving on a good road.

[Desert Man]

I'm for division of Riverside and San Bernardino counties (SB is the nation's largest county in size, about 20,000 sq. mi. in area), have SB/Northern LA/Eastern Kern county form "Mojave county", and the Palm Springs area become "Desert county". County seats will be Lancaster or Palmdale in what's now L.A. county or Victorville, depending on where is most convenient, and either Palm Springs, Indio or Coachella for the other. Then CA will have 2 more counties to its 58, and So CA's counties were created in a time there was sparse populations so the boundaries have wider expenses of area, like Riv's goes 200 miles to AZ and so does SB, which also touches NV.