Should funeral processions be banned?

[CtrlAltDel]

Or at least the law that allows them to go through red lights if the light was green for the first car (usually the hearse). I don’t know if this is the law everywhere, but it is in Illinois, which is where I am right now.

I ask this because today I saw an accident with a funeral procession. A black car waiting to make a left turn had crept into the intersection waiting for a gap. The light then turned red, whereupon the black car began to make the turn even though a blue car was approaching the intersection from the oncoming direction. The blue car wasn’t stopping because it was part of a funeral procession, and as a result, the black car hit the blue car. Luckily, the damage seemed minimal, although the blue car did skid a bit.

While I was aware that this was a funeral procession, having seen the hearse and all the little flags on the cars, it seems to me that the driver of the black car wasn’t, and thus fell victim to what is essentially a variation of the yellow trap.

So, is it a good idea to allow the tail ends of funeral processions to go through red lights? Or not? I’m currently leaning toward no because of the emotional effect of what I saw today and because I don’t see a huge advantage to allowing everyone to caravan from the church to the cemetery, but I would be interested in any relevant facts or data about the accidents they cause (or perhaps avoid). 

[Pete from Boston]

Oh boy.  There were very heated, emotional discussions of this on m.t.r.  I'm hoping the same doesn't happen here. 

I don't personally have a problem with funeral processions.  They are an ancient custom that is very important to people as part of accepted mourning ritual, and in most cases, most of us are able to construe what's going on sufficiently to behave accordingly.

In past years it was a problem that processions relied upon daytime headlights–a practice once largely unknown outside funeral processions–at a time when this was becoming a widespread practice.  However, the introduction of very apparent marking devices, such as the magnetic rooftop flag, should make defensive drivers well aware when a funeral is passing by.   

[CtrlAltDel]

Oh boy.  There were very heated, emotional discussions of this on m.t.r.  I'm hoping the same doesn't happen here. 

Oh, I didn't know. Sorry.

[cjk374]

Processions should be banned from all interstates. Period.

[wanderer2575]

I dunno.  I concede that obviously I wasn't there to witness the accident, but someone so oblivious to a funeral procession probably shouldn't be on the road.  (Was the driver of said black car on his smartphone or otherwise looking like he was in la-la land?)  For that matter, the funeral procession seems irrelevant to me -- I don't care if the light turns red; I'm not turning in front of an oncoming car until I see at least that he's slowing down to stop.

But to the OP:  I've unfortunately been in many a procession, and what bothers (and sometimes downright scares) me is the varying speeds.  I understand the column isn't in constant motion because the hearse stops for red lights, but still it amazes that so many drivers can't hold a steady speed when in motion.  I've been in processions where the cars in front of me suddenly slammed on the brakes (no red light anywhere nearby, mind you), and at least one procession where suddenly the cars in front of me took off and I had to do 40+ mph to keep up, which was frightening.  If I were to debate banning processions, it would be on this point.

[realjd]

I ask this because today I saw an accident with a funeral procession. A black car waiting to make a left turn had crept into the intersection waiting for a gap. The light then turned red, whereupon the black car began to make the turn even though a blue car was approaching the intersection from the oncoming direction. The blue car wasn’t stopping because it was part of a funeral procession, and as a result, the black car hit the blue car. Luckily, the damage seemed minimal, although the blue car did skid a bit.

And this is why you don't pull into the intersection to turn left if the way isn't clear. Not only will it potentially get you a gridlock ticket around here (don't enter the intersection if the way out isn't clear), it causes so many accidents when people heading straight race the yellow or early red.

[roadman65]

Oh boy.  There were very heated, emotional discussions of this on m.t.r.  I'm hoping the same doesn't happen here. 

Oh, I didn't know. Sorry.

Yes look at the Denali thread.  It turned into a great political debate that got it locked.  Although, it lasted longer than I thought would have as whenever you bring up the name Obama, some heated argument will occur.

Unfortunately, this could go that way being that processions are believed by some to be protocol from previous US customs that were believed to be as American as apple pie and hot dogs.

I am not saying I am against processions, nor saying I am for them, but it maybe should be something we should stay clear of here.

[oscar]

Processions should be banned from all interstates. Period.

IIRC, that is the rule in some states (CA?), and a sound one.

One funeral director staffer nearly caused an accident in D.C., by suddenly swerving to block all lanes of eastbound freeway traffic, so a procession could more easily enter the freeway at the next on-ramp. I've heard of long processions hogging the right lane, and not leaving gaps for other traffic to cross the procession and exit the freeway.

I'm not wild about processions traveling short distances on non-Interstates, but they're less disruptive. I would prefer all such processions to be supervised by police, which can safely block traffic to avoid conflict, much like what happens for presidential motorcades through downtown D.C. Unfortunately, many of the longest processions (by number of cars) are for police funerals, though at least they tend to be well-organized with advance public notice (and mentions on radio traffic reports) not typical for smaller funerals.

[Pete from Boston]

Oh boy.  There were very heated, emotional discussions of this on m.t.r.  I'm hoping the same doesn't happen here. 

Oh, I didn't know. Sorry.

It's less likely here, I should admit.  There was a greater tendency there toward all-out flameout, and more people with a greater respect for their own ability to say just about anything than for others' opinions.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

I was at a couple of funerals in the Midwest this year.  I was astounded by the deference shown to the procession.  People not only in the procession's lane, but in all lanes of the road–oncoming included–pulled to the side.  One participant told me he felt insult at the few oncoming cars that didn't pull aside.

Here this is not the case.  The deference to the procession is shown primarily by cross traffic at intersections signalized and not.  I don't see anyone pulling over to let the funeral pass.  People here seem to express no feeling of slight at this.

[Brian556]

I say it would probably be a good idea to ban them. Nobody, other than emergency vehicles, should have special privileges to break traffic laws or obstruct traffic.

I don't like law enforcing or fire departments doing them for their dead, either. It's not that I am a cop hater or anything, it's just that it is unfair to everyone else that needs to use the roads. It gives the impression that they feels like they are more important than everyone else and have the right to take over the roads for their own personal benefit whenever they please, which bothers me.

Just because it is an old tradition does not mean we need to keep doing it. Smoking and chewing tobacco are traditions, too, but we are trying to eliminate those.

[Pete from Boston]

Just because it is an old tradition does not mean we need to keep doing it. Smoking and chewing tobacco are traditions, too, but we are trying to eliminate those.

Smoking and chewing tobacco, as you know, are conclusively detrimental to one's health.  Funeral processions are primarily detrimental to one's convenience.  Despite this being the United States, where "convenience or death" sometimes seems to be our national philosophy, I don't think they're equal.

[roadman65]

Oh boy.  There were very heated, emotional discussions of this on m.t.r.  I'm hoping the same doesn't happen here. 

Oh, I didn't know. Sorry.

It's less likely here, I should admit.  There was a greater tendency there toward all-out flameout, and more people with a greater respect for their own ability to say just about anything than for others' opinions.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

I was at a couple of funerals in the Midwest this year.  I was astounded by the deference shown to the procession.  People not only in the procession's lane, but in all lanes of the road–oncoming included–pulled to the side.  One participant told me he felt insult at the few oncoming cars that didn't pull aside.

Here this is not the case.  The deference to the procession is shown primarily by cross traffic at intersections signalized and not.  I don't see anyone pulling over to let the funeral pass.  People here seem to express no feeling of slight at this.

Not if NE 2 gets involved.  All you need is one of his Ronald Reagan rants and it could deter the OP.

Anyway, yes certain parts of the country drivers are more courteous than others.  Like out in Kansas you will have truckers flash their headlights after you pass them to let you know you are clear and that they won't speed up on you.  In fact most of the west excluding California, is more courteous than us on the east coast. 

[jeffandnicole]

Personally, the OP's reasoning why they should be banned (a single accident) isn't a good reason why they should be banned.  Based on his description, the vehicle turning left turned into another car when the light was turning red.  That accident can easily occur during normal traffic conditions, when a vehicle enters an intersection late and a left turning vehicle simply decides to turn left.

If I would propose any reason why they should be banned, it would be due to the traffic congestion that can occur when motorists can't get thru a traffic light cycle, or when they otherwise congest a roadway needlessly.

NJ law requires a break in a funeral procession of longer than 5 minutes, although it's tough to tell who's actually going to be able to enforce that.

[roadman65]

Personally, the OP's reasoning why they should be banned (a single accident) isn't a good reason why they should be banned.  Based on his description, the vehicle turning left turned into another car when the light was turning red.  That accident can easily occur during normal traffic conditions, when a vehicle enters an intersection late and a left turning vehicle simply decides to turn left.

If I would propose any reason why they should be banned, it would be due to the traffic congestion that can occur when motorists can't get thru a traffic light cycle, or when they otherwise congest a roadway needlessly.

NJ law requires a break in a funeral procession of longer than 5 minutes, although it's tough to tell who's actually going to be able to enforce that.

Also we got to consider those red light cameras which can get a ticket for those who run the red light.  Remember the camera cannot make a judgement call which is why I think they should be banned, but that is for another thread.  Anyway, most funeral directors tell me that they have gotten tickets for running the lights even thought they are legally and morally right, but the camera does not know the difference and those viewing the photo before they mail it to the driver cannot see in the photo the actual procession either.

[1995hoo]

What I hated was that when I lived in North Carolina for three years, there were people who would stop for funeral processions even if they were on the other side of a divided highway with a wide grassy median. For those who know the area, one place where I recall this happening was on US-64 near the Leith car dealerships in Cary a short distance west of US-1. Some idiots ahead of me abruptly stopped their cars, without pulling into the shoulder, in the left eastbound lane to get out and stand there while a funeral procession went by westbound, and it wasn't any special thing like a cop or a celebrity or the like (I mean, OK, if I'd been on the M1 the day of Princess Diana's funeral, I'd have expected people to stop, but I don't expect that for just any old funeral!). I later learned once upon a time apparently this sort of thing was "traditional" in parts of the South as a way to show "respect."

There was a controversy here in Northern Virginia a few months ago about a guy in a funeral procession who got pulled over and given a ticket for running a red light. It was a City of Alexandria cop and he said because the procession didn't have a police escort, the members of the procession were not allowed to go through red lights even if the hearse did go through. The driver missed the burial as a result. I know he said he would fight the ticket, but I don't know what came of it.

I remember when my grandmother was buried in Brooklyn (the most recent time I was in a funeral procession, though in standard New York fashion we were in a limo) people constantly broke into the procession. Of course you don't have a police escort up there and the segment from the Prospect Expressway onto Ocean Parkway and then a left turn somewhere wound up being a hassle because it simply wasn't practical for all the following vehicles to try to go through the red light to turn, and eventually the hearse driver just had to pull over and wait.

[cjk374]

Oh boy.  There were very heated, emotional discussions of this on m.t.r.  I'm hoping the same doesn't happen here. 

Oh, I didn't know. Sorry.

It's less likely here, I should admit.  There was a greater tendency there toward all-out flameout, and more people with a greater respect for their own ability to say just about anything than for others' opinions.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

I was at a couple of funerals in the Midwest this year.  I was astounded by the deference shown to the procession.  People not only in the procession's lane, but in all lanes of the road–oncoming included–pulled to the side.  One participant told me he felt insult at the few oncoming cars that didn't pull aside.

Here this is not the case.  The deference to the procession is shown primarily by cross traffic at intersections signalized and not.  I don't see anyone pulling over to let the funeral pass.  People here seem to express no feeling of slight at this.

Pulling over to pay respect for the procession is what we do here. I feel disrespectful if I don't pull over. On the interstates, you have 2 lanes (or more depending where you are) full of people who don't want to be disrespectful and then plug up the lanes and surround the procession...trying to create more business for the undertaker. That is why processions should be restricted to non-freeways.

[Jardine]

(IANMTU)

One of my uncles had a funeral procession exceed 70 MPH for over 20 miles on a paved county road.   I wouldn't go over 70 and arrived at cemetery mid ceremony.


No one ever explained WTF happened.

[CtrlAltDel]

Personally, the OP's reasoning why they should be banned (a single accident) isn't a good reason why they should be banned.

I know, that's why I'm looking for data and statistics on the phenomenon.

[traffic light guy]

This is a very touchy subject, but personally I think they should only be held during low-traffic ours, usually from 10pm-5am, but hey I'm a unique person, that's just me.

[roadman65]

After hearing all of this I finally concluded why we have processions.  It is a way to honor the dead as they go by, but our society has changed so much that you would never know it.

However a single incident should not change the laws on it, however with more cars on the road the procession seems to be only a means for all members of the grieving party to arrive at the cemetery together instead of protocol like it might of once been.

[triplemultiplex]

(IANMTU)

One of my uncles had a funeral procession exceed 70 MPH for over 20 miles on a paved county road.   I wouldn't go over 70 and arrived at cemetery mid ceremony.


No one ever explained WTF happened.

Was he a NASCAR driver?  Sheesh.

Most cultures have something stupid they do related to death.  The convoy of mourners is one of ours.

[jeffandnicole]

I remember when my grandmother was buried in Brooklyn (the most recent time I was in a funeral procession, though in standard New York fashion we were in a limo) people constantly broke into the procession. Of course you don't have a police escort up there and the segment from the Prospect Expressway onto Ocean Parkway and then a left turn somewhere wound up being a hassle because it simply wasn't practical for all the following vehicles to try to go through the red light to turn, and eventually the hearse driver just had to pull over and wait.

Even if you have a police escort, what are they going to do?  If the procession is long enough, a cop may not see the offending car break in.  And if the cop does see the car and pull over the car, now you don't have a police procession because the cop is dealing with the other vehicle.

[Rothman]

I remember when my grandmother was buried in Brooklyn (the most recent time I was in a funeral procession, though in standard New York fashion we were in a limo) people constantly broke into the procession. Of course you don't have a police escort up there and the segment from the Prospect Expressway onto Ocean Parkway and then a left turn somewhere wound up being a hassle because it simply wasn't practical for all the following vehicles to try to go through the red light to turn, and eventually the hearse driver just had to pull over and wait.

Even if you have a police escort, what are they going to do?  If the procession is long enough, a cop may not see the offending car break in.  And if the cop does see the car and pull over the car, now you don't have a police procession because the cop is dealing with the other vehicle.

Heh. Reminds me of the time when NY was considering putting a trooper in a cruiser at every interstate construction site.  There are just so many ideas out there that "sound good" but are impractical when it comes to practice.

[Pete from Boston]

I remember when my grandmother was buried in Brooklyn (the most recent time I was in a funeral procession, though in standard New York fashion we were in a limo) people constantly broke into the procession. Of course you don't have a police escort up there and the segment from the Prospect Expressway onto Ocean Parkway and then a left turn somewhere wound up being a hassle because it simply wasn't practical for all the following vehicles to try to go through the red light to turn, and eventually the hearse driver just had to pull over and wait.

Even if you have a police escort, what are they going to do?  If the procession is long enough, a cop may not see the offending car break in.  And if the cop does see the car and pull over the car, now you don't have a police procession because the cop is dealing with the other vehicle.

Heh. Reminds me of the time when NY was considering putting a trooper in a cruiser at every interstate construction site.  There are just so many ideas out there that "sound good" but are impractical when it comes to practice.

Not only is this (formerly de jure, now de facto) required in Massachusetts, but the police pretty much intimidate and bully anyone that's not going to support it.  In one North Shore town, police in civilian cars blocked and drove against the flow of traffic in a construction zone, loudly boasting that they couldn't follow the civilian flagger's instructions.

[Rothman]

I remember when my grandmother was buried in Brooklyn (the most recent time I was in a funeral procession, though in standard New York fashion we were in a limo) people constantly broke into the procession. Of course you don't have a police escort up there and the segment from the Prospect Expressway onto Ocean Parkway and then a left turn somewhere wound up being a hassle because it simply wasn't practical for all the following vehicles to try to go through the red light to turn, and eventually the hearse driver just had to pull over and wait.

Even if you have a police escort, what are they going to do?  If the procession is long enough, a cop may not see the offending car break in.  And if the cop does see the car and pull over the car, now you don't have a police procession because the cop is dealing with the other vehicle.

Heh. Reminds me of the time when NY was considering putting a trooper in a cruiser at every interstate construction site.  There are just so many ideas out there that "sound good" but are impractical when it comes to practice.

Not only is this (formerly de jure, now de facto) required in Massachusetts, but the police pretty much intimidate and bully anyone that's not going to support it.  In one North Shore town, police in civilian cars blocked and drove against the flow of traffic in a construction zone, loudly boasting that they couldn't follow the civilian flagger's instructions.

Weird.  The troopers here hated the idea and thought it was a waste of resources.