Traffic signals to be obsolete by 2030 :(

[Dr Frankenstein]

Self-driving/driverless cars aren't ready by any means and they aren't close either. Despite the outrageous amount of hype around Google's project, it's not currently practical to use and still has several caveats.

For one, it relies mostly on map data to locate traffic signals, stops, speed limits and other TCDs, rather than computer vision. I think it still has trouble parking and/or navigating parking lots.

It's not ready and won't be in the near future, and even if self-driving cars hit the market soon, I won't trust them for at least a decade and governments cannot make them immediately a requirement and tear down all traffic signals just like that.

[DaBigE]

Doesn't matter what phase you have the walk signal on, people in the US will still only treat that signal as a suggestion rather than a traffic control device. The rise of cellphones, iPods, and ear buds have only seemed to make the problem worse.

MFFY towards pedestrians!

That best be sarcasm...unless you're saying pedestrians have a MFFY view. Can't quite tell until I have my 

[DaBigE]

Self-driving/driverless cars aren't ready by any means and they aren't close either. Despite the outrageous amount of hype around Google's project, it's not currently practical to use and still has several caveats.

For one, it relies mostly on map data to locate traffic signals, stops, speed limits and other TCDs, rather than computer vision. I think it still has trouble parking and/or navigating parking lots.

It's not ready and won't be in the near future, and even if self-driving cars hit the market soon, I won't trust them for at least a decade and governments cannot make them immediately a requirement and tear down all traffic signals just like that.

Agreed. Look at how many errors Google Maps and the like have...if we can't even get the maps accurate, how can anyone trust them to be used to power driverless cars?

[silverback1065]

don't buy into the "X will be gone by year XXXX" it's almost always not true.  Just like this hyperloop stuff everyone is so happy about, while a great idea in concept, good luck getting the R/W for it.  We have enough trouble getting new roads to be built in this country.  I don't care how smart and innovative elon musk is, NIMBYS can be pretty relentless and annoying when it comes to building new infrastructure. 

[ET21]

Highly doubt traffic signals are going away completely in 15 years. I'd give it till the end of this century though, could see no signals past 2100

[silverback1065]

I feel like non self driving cars need to be banned before signals can go away

[1995hoo]

Doesn't matter what phase you have the walk signal on, people in the US will still only treat that signal as a suggestion rather than a traffic control device. The rise of cellphones, iPods, and ear buds have only seemed to make the problem worse.

This is what I was getting at in my prior comment that Baloo Whatever dismissed. Regardless of his opinion, pretty much everywhere in the USA pedestrians do not have an absolute right to step out into the street wherever and whenever they wish, and they have an obligation to ensure drivers have time and space to stop.

[DaBigE]

Doesn't matter what phase you have the walk signal on, people in the US will still only treat that signal as a suggestion rather than a traffic control device. The rise of cellphones, iPods, and ear buds have only seemed to make the problem worse.

This is what I was getting at in my prior comment that Baloo Whatever dismissed. Regardless of his opinion, pretty much everywhere in the USA pedestrians do not have an absolute right to step out into the street wherever and whenever they wish, and they have an obligation to ensure drivers have time and space to stop.

There must be a lot of people that skipped or slept though their basic physics lessons in school. The laws of physics will always trump any constitutional laws.

[1995hoo]

If Baloo is trying to say drivers can't hit pedestrians just because they're crossing illegally, then I have no problem with that principle. The problem is that too many pedestrians think it means they can walk with impunity. Try walking in front of a New York cab barreling down Sixth Avenue on the green wave and it won't go well for you!

[tradephoric]

A mall around me went out of business 5 years ago and the traffic signal still hasn't been removed.  There are over 300,000 traffic signals in America.  A traffic signal removal every 5 years means there will be no more traffic signals in 1.5 million years.  I'm not holding my breath.

[DaBigE]

Even if a technology were to be implemented that renders traffic signals obsolete, it's going to take a long time to find its way across the globe. Many smaller towns won't have the funds (nor probably be able to justify the expense) to change. Maybe the authors of the articles actually meant 3020.

How many other items that have been declared obsolete have truly been 100% abandoned? Record players? Nope. Mechanical cash registers? Nope. I don't see traffic signals as being any different.

[AlexandriaVA]

If Baloo is trying to say drivers can't hit pedestrians just because they're crossing illegally, then I have no problem with that principle. The problem is that too many pedestrians think it means they can walk with impunity. Try walking in front of a New York cab barreling down Sixth Avenue on the green wave and it won't go well for you!

We both drive in the same areas and I just don't know where you're getting this from.

How about this way, based on my own observations: I have witnessed cars not stopping for pedestrians at a marked crosswalk without a stop sign/stoplight (especially when it is a four-lane road with no median) than I have witnessed pedestrians brazenly walk in front of a fast-moving vehicle without concern.

[1995hoo]

If Baloo is trying to say drivers can't hit pedestrians just because they're crossing illegally, then I have no problem with that principle. The problem is that too many pedestrians think it means they can walk with impunity. Try walking in front of a New York cab barreling down Sixth Avenue on the green wave and it won't go well for you!

We both drive in the same areas and I just don't know where you're getting this from.

How about this way, based on my own observations: I have witnessed cars not stopping for pedestrians at a marked crosswalk without a stop sign/stoplight (especially when it is a four-lane road with no median) than I have witnessed pedestrians brazenly walk in front of a fast-moving vehicle without concern.

I see it all the time near Seven Corners. Also saw it last night downtown–cars on Ninth Street approaching a green light at 35 to 40 mph and people sauntered out in front of them. Really dumb when the pavement is wet like it was last night!

[AlexandriaVA]

If Baloo is trying to say drivers can't hit pedestrians just because they're crossing illegally, then I have no problem with that principle. The problem is that too many pedestrians think it means they can walk with impunity. Try walking in front of a New York cab barreling down Sixth Avenue on the green wave and it won't go well for you!

We both drive in the same areas and I just don't know where you're getting this from.

How about this way, based on my own observations: I have witnessed cars not stopping for pedestrians at a marked crosswalk without a stop sign/stoplight (especially when it is a four-lane road with no median) than I have witnessed pedestrians brazenly walk in front of a fast-moving vehicle without concern.

I see it all the time near Seven Corners. Also saw it last night downtown–cars on Ninth Street approaching a green light at 35 to 40 mph and people sauntered out in front of them. Really dumb when the pavement is wet like it was last night!

Seven Corners is certainly a bit of a weird case though - there really aren't many ways to legally cross the major thoroughfares. I once got ticketed for an illegal U-turn there (it was a sting operation but I fully admit I was in violation of the rule) and the cop mentioned that it's the most dangerous pedestrian area in Fairfax County. Given the high amount of people without cars who live there, thus necessitating that they walk to their retail outlets or bus stops, I can totally believe that. Fairfax County recently built the pedestrian bridge of course, but that only is of value if your route happens to take you between those points. (Plus apparently people take dumps in the bridge's stairwells). I cite Seven Corners as flawed pedestrian design - I wonder how the planned redevelopment will play out.

The same issue happened further down Arlington Blvd near Graham Road. That's why Fairfax County or VDOT built the fences near Loehmann's Plaza. Too many crossings away from the intersection. Again, not a particularly safe or pleasant place to cross the street.

Downtown is a different case since there's signal-protected crossings all over. I'm more amazed that you were able to manage 35-40 MPH in the first place. Green wave of sorts?

[Ace10]

If Baloo is trying to say drivers can't hit pedestrians just because they're crossing illegally, then I have no problem with that principle. The problem is that too many pedestrians think it means they can walk with impunity. Try walking in front of a New York cab barreling down Sixth Avenue on the green wave and it won't go well for you!

We both drive in the same areas and I just don't know where you're getting this from.

How about this way, based on my own observations: I have witnessed cars not stopping for pedestrians at a marked crosswalk without a stop sign/stoplight (especially when it is a four-lane road with no median) than I have witnessed pedestrians brazenly walk in front of a fast-moving vehicle without concern.

I see it all the time near Seven Corners. Also saw it last night downtown—cars on Ninth Street approaching a green light at 35 to 40 mph and people sauntered out in front of them. Really dumb when the pavement is wet like it was last night!

I see it a bunch in Portland, though Portland is considered to be quite walkable and very pedestrian- and bicycle-friendly. I think it's a combination of motorists not knowing the law or generally unaware or blatantly ignoring the fact that a pedestrian is standing at the street corner and just blow right past them.

Keep in mind I see this mostly in built-up areas along 2-lane streets with speed limits of 20-30 mph (namely Hawthorne Blvd and tons of places in Northwest right around 21st and 23rd Aves). There are crosswalks, marked or unmarked, at every intersection in Oregon (except for when a "crosswalk closed" sign is posted) and vehicles are supposed to stop for pedestrians in these crosswalks. However, pedestrians have a duty to not cross so close to a moving vehicle that it presents a hazard, and motorists have a duty to keep from hitting pedestrians even if they're crossing the road outside of a crosswalk, marked or unmarked. It's also illegal for a vehicle to pass another vehicle going in the same direction when the stopped vehicle is yielding to a pedestrian.

However to "trigger" the right of way of the pedestrian, they must step off the curb or otherwise extend some part of their body, wheelchair, cane, or bicycle into the roadway. Problem is, I think either pedestrians don't know this or assume (rightly so) that motorists don't know this and won't stop, thus they play it safe and wait for a break in traffic. Me, I'm always keeping my eye out for those little green street signs at unsignalized intersections and for a pedestrian on the corner looking like they're about to cross, and I always stop for them. Once or twice vehicles in other lanes will breeze by while I'm stopped to allow the pedestrian to cross, completely unaware of their requirement to stop.

To add to this, in Oregon, blind persons apparently have the right of way - or at least vehicles are required to stop for them - at any point along the road, even outside of marked or unmarked crosswalks, and vehicles must stop for them and remain stopped until they have completely crossed the roadway. The relevant law (ORS 811.035) doesn't make mention of whether or not such a roadway is controlled access, or at least I couldn't locate any language to the contrary, so theoretically vehicles could be required to stop if a blind person with a cane or guide dog attempts to cross a freeway (not that I would ever advocate such a pedestrian to do so).

Anyway, all this to say I consider it a sign of responsibility and respect to know the laws regarding pedestrians, the breadth of which I was never taught in driver's ed and didn't know until I did the research myself, and always try 100% to make things easier on them when I'm driving and they're trying to cross to stop and wait for them so they don't have to wait for a break in traffic which could take potentially minutes because drivers refuse (knowingly or unknowingly) to stop for them.

[AlexandriaVA]

Anyway, all this to say I consider it a sign of responsibility and respect to know the laws regarding pedestrians, the breadth of which I was never taught in driver's ed and didn't know until I did the research myself, and always try 100% to make things easier on them when I'm driving and they're trying to cross to stop and wait for them so they don't have to wait for a break in traffic which could take potentially minutes because drivers refuse (knowingly or unknowingly) to stop for them.

Driver's ed should require everyone to cross busy roads on foot before they can drive a car on them. I honestly think that some people never cross busy roads on foot and don't know the challenges/fears facing pedestrians.

[jeffandnicole]

Anyway, all this to say I consider it a sign of responsibility and respect to know the laws regarding pedestrians, the breadth of which I was never taught in driver's ed and didn't know until I did the research myself, and always try 100% to make things easier on them when I'm driving and they're trying to cross to stop and wait for them so they don't have to wait for a break in traffic which could take potentially minutes because drivers refuse (knowingly or unknowingly) to stop for them.

Driver's ed should require everyone to cross busy roads on foot before they can drive a car on them. I honestly think that some people never cross busy roads on foot and don't know the challenges/fears facing pedestrians.

And change a tire on the side of the highway, so they know how it feels when they're driving past someone doing 75.

[AlexandriaVA]

How many other items that have been declared obsolete have truly been 100% abandoned? Record players? Nope. Mechanical cash registers? Nope. I don't see traffic signals as being any different.

Telegrams, at least in the United States. They're still heavily used in India.

[Ace10]

Driver's ed should require everyone to cross busy roads on foot before they can drive a car on them. I honestly think that some people never cross busy roads on foot and don't know the challenges/fears facing pedestrians.

And change a tire on the side of the highway, so they know how it feels when they're driving past someone doing 75.

Yes and yes! I wholeheartedly agree.

[kkt]

How many other items that have been declared obsolete have truly been 100% abandoned? Record players? Nope. Mechanical cash registers? Nope. I don't see traffic signals as being any different.

I think it's been 30 years since I've seen a mechanical cash register in use.

Hmm.  8-track tapes?  8" floppy disks?  Pagers?  Acoustic couple modems?

[jakeroot]

Driver's ed should require everyone to cross busy roads on foot before they can drive a car on them. I honestly think that some people never cross busy roads on foot and don't know the challenges/fears facing pedestrians.

And change a tire on the side of the highway, so they know how it feels when they're driving past someone doing 75.

So you two want a scared-straight program in driver's ed? Nice try.

How many other items that have been declared obsolete have truly been 100% abandoned? Record players? Nope. Mechanical cash registers? Nope. I don't see traffic signals as being any different.

I think it's been 30 years since I've seen a mechanical cash register in use.

Nothing ever disappears. It either finds its way into an antique shop or a museum at some point, but it never stops existing.

[1995hoo]

....

Downtown is a different case since there's signal-protected crossings all over. I'm more amazed that you were able to manage 35-40 MPH in the first place. Green wave of sorts?

I was standing on the corner waiting to cross the street, but yes, traffic was surprisingly light and the drivers had a string of greens.

[Ace10]

Driver's ed should require everyone to cross busy roads on foot before they can drive a car on them. I honestly think that some people never cross busy roads on foot and don't know the challenges/fears facing pedestrians.

And change a tire on the side of the highway, so they know how it feels when they're driving past someone doing 75.

So you two want a scared-straight program in driver's ed? Nice try.

I'd at least want to make the first a requirement because the entire time I lived in Mississippi, I think I only crossed one street (two-way, four-lane with center turn lane - a pretty major street for its area) a handful of times. It wasn't until I moved to the Portland area and actually began walking to a bunch of places that I took it upon myself to read up on the fact that most states recognize the concept of unmarked crosswalks and that vehicles must yield to pedestrians within them (under certain parameters which you can glean from a few of my posts here). Certainly nothing of the sort was taught in my driver's ed, and even if it was, it didn't stick - and I paid attention and was one of the best performing students there. If only to give students that experience so that as time passes more and more drivers have been through the experience and know what it feels like for a pedestrian, they may be more aware of how things are supposed to work and everyone can get to where they're going understanding the rules and making it safe for all involved.

For the second, I just could have benefited from the knowledge and experience of changing a tire when the need finally arose years after driver's ed (I took it at 15 years old and had to change a tire around 20).

[jakeroot]

Driver's ed should require everyone to cross busy roads on foot before they can drive a car on them. I honestly think that some people never cross busy roads on foot and don't know the challenges/fears facing pedestrians.

And change a tire on the side of the highway, so they know how it feels when they're driving past someone doing 75.

So you two want a scared-straight program in driver's ed? Nice try.

I'd at least want to make the first a requirement...For the second, I just could have benefited from the knowledge and experience of changing a tire when the need finally arose years after driver's ed (I took it at 15 years old and had to change a tire around 20).

Don't get me wrong, I want those things taught in Driver's ed, I just don't want them taught out in the real world.

[US 41]

How many other items that have been declared obsolete have truly been 100% abandoned? Record players? Nope. Mechanical cash registers? Nope. I don't see traffic signals as being any different.

I think it's been 30 years since I've seen a mechanical cash register in use.

Hmm.  8-track tapes?  8" floppy disks?  Pagers?  Acoustic couple modems?

It's 2015 and they still sell cassette tapes in Walmart, K Mart, Dollar General, and many other places. CDs don't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon either. I can bet every dollar I got stop lights will still be around in 2030.