Carolina Bays Parkway (SC 31)

[sturmde]

If US 17 upgrades continue to progress and I-74 is routed to end in Wilmington... clearly AASHTO could assign I-89 from south of Myrtle up to Wilmington and beyond.   It "fits" with the "logic" of 85 and 87, right?

[sprjus4]

If US 17 upgrades continue to progress and I-74 is routed to end in Wilmington... clearly AASHTO could assign I-89 from south of Myrtle up to Wilmington and beyond.   It "fits" with the "logic" of 85 and 87, right?

I-89 would be completely east of I-95, it wouldn't fit in the grid.

I-87 works because while a lot of the Norfolk-Raleigh highway is east of I-95, it's southern terminus is located east of I-85 and west of I-95, so it does fit.

Not to mention, Wilmington to Myrtle Beach wouldn't warrant a 2-d, at most an extension of I-140.

If an interstate was built between Norfolk and Myrtle Beach, then I-99 would be the appropriate designation.

[goobnav]

What about I-173, would make more sense and explain the break between Wilmington and Myrtle.

[sprjus4]

What about I-173, would make more sense and explain the break between Wilmington and Myrtle.

Could be either really. A full build out (the existing parkway, the proposed extension, and future final phase to I-140) would link I-73 and I-40.

I suggested I-140 since it already exists for part of the corridor, and it'd be easier to extend that than introduce a new I-x73 designation.

Plus I-140 is essentially a southern extension of I-40, and would be a valuable connection for I-95 traffic bound to Myrtle Beach, especially since I-73 isn't getting built anytime soon. Both the existing I-95 -> I-795 -> I-40 -> I-140 -> US-17 and the I-95 -> SC-38 -> US-501 routings are about the same mileage, so having the former a full freeway with the latter still arterial would make the former more attractive and quicker with a 65-70 mph limit thruout, for long-distance tourist traffic, and bring some business thru Southeastern NC at the same time.

[LM117]

Both the existing I-95 -> I-795 -> I-40 -> I-140 -> US-17 and the I-95 -> SC-38 -> US-501 routings are about the same mileage, so having the former a full freeway with the latter still arterial would make the former more attractive and quicker with a 65-70 mph limit thruout, for long-distance tourist traffic, and bring some business thru Southeastern NC at the same time.

Slightly OT, but when I last drove I-795 two years ago, I was surprised at how much busier it was compared to a decade ago. Seemed like over half the traffic had out-of-state plates, mostly from the Northeast. I was living in Fremont when I-795 first opened in 2006 and for the first few years, traffic was very light.

[sprjus4]

Both the existing I-95 -> I-795 -> I-40 -> I-140 -> US-17 and the I-95 -> SC-38 -> US-501 routings are about the same mileage, so having the former a full freeway with the latter still arterial would make the former more attractive and quicker with a 65-70 mph limit thruout, for long-distance tourist traffic, and bring some business thru Southeastern NC at the same time.

Slightly OT, but when I last drove I-795 two years ago, I was surprised at how much busier it was compared to a decade ago. Seemed like over half the traffic had out-of-state plates, mostly from the Northeast. I was living in Fremont when I-795 first opened in 2006 and for the first few years, traffic was very light.

Could be also Wilmington bound, don't forget there's tourist beaches there too.

I-95 to I-40 was likely the standard routing, as US-117 was only a 2-lane road passing thru small towns where I-795 is now. The part south of there is 4-lane expressway, and now that a viable shortcut is opened, that likely explains the increase of traffic. There's also the completion of I-140 a couple years back, which opened up a new viable routing for Myrtle Beach traffic. A completed I-795 would likely bring more, especially if the Parkway gets extended to I-140.

[sprjus4]

Sunset Beach to consider submitting new concept for controversial Carolina Bays Parkway extension project

SUNSET BEACH, N.C. (WECT) - Sunset Beach Town Council is expected Monday to consider submitting what would be the tenth concept for the Carolina Bays Parkway extension project planned by the N.C. and S.C. state transportation departments.

The project, which intends to extend Carolina Bays Parkway from S.C. 9 in Horry County, S.C., across the N.C. state line to U.S. 17 in Brunswick County, has faced backlash over concerns all nine concepts being considered would negatively impact residential and commercial areas.

Though the location of the tie-in to existing U.S. 17 varies by concept, each one would use existing U.S. 17 for approximately 6.3 miles between N.C. 904 (Longwood Road/Seaside Road) and N.C. 130 in Brunswick County.

Sunset Beach's concept differs from that common theme, instead proposing a route inland of and roughly parallel to U.S. 17, ultimately intersection U.S. 17 north of Shallotte.

"This tenth concept would explore a route inland of and roughly parallel to US 17, providing a second corridor alleviating congestion, minimizing impact on the growing commercial and residential US 17 corridor, and providing an additional evacuation route for the rapidly growing Brunswick County population,"  a staff report included in Town Council's agenda packet states. "Ideally, it would be designed to eventually connect with the I-140 bypass around Leland and Wilmington."

My opinion is that a northern route as they propose could work, but still could tie back into existing US-17 at the Shallote Bypass. In the future, a decent amount of the existing US-17 could be utilized for a freeway extension to I-140, notably the existing 7-mile limited-access portion north of Bolivia. Either way, the small Shallote Bypass should be attempted to be included in the parkway concept, as it's already limited-access, meets rural freeway standards, has an interchange and rest area, and another interchange upcoming.

[tolbs17]

Which concept is the best? I was thinking 7. when I looked at 1 and 4 again, i think those are a little too far, just in my opinion.

Honestly, I do NOT like the ones that parallel Hickman Rd.

EDIT: when looking at it again, when I saw a file saying "CONCEPT 10 ROUTE" That almost looks like this file where it's completely on a new location

https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/TPBCTP/Brunswick%20County/Brunswick_HighwayMap.pdf

So in that case, alternative 1 or 4 would have to be built.

Also, if it's on a new alignment, then it's definitely going to be 4 lanes.

[tolbs17]

https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/carolina-bays-parkway/Documents/carolina-bays-alternative-map.pdf

Forgot to mention about this project, some alternatives (such as concepts 3, 5, 6, and 9) have been removed and 1A and 4A have been added.

So I assume either 1A or 4A will be built?

7 would plow through a nice neighborhood that has been recently built (with more houses coming right now) so that's probably not the one that they will choose.

8 runs through a golf course and some wetlands so also doubtful.

[tjcreasy]

Ultimately the goal should be to use as much of the US 17 Bypass as possible. Freeway conversion that includes  the use of frontage roads as one way pairs is an underused/undervalued design in NC. Oftentimes to the detriment of existing businesses that lose significant revenue when greenfield routes are selected.

IMO I-99 should pursued to provide a continuous route number following I-795, I-40, I-140, The Carolina Bays Parkway extension, and SC 31. I-795, I-140, and SC 31 would be decommissioned along this new interstate. The ultimate goal would be to extend this new interstate to Charleston. This new route would alleviate I-95 and further boost economic development along the coast in NC and SC.

[sprjus4]

Alternatives 1A and 4A seem like the most likely. As for any potential "interstate" designation - we're now getting fictional here - it'd seem most logical to have such a corridor follow up US-17 to meet the proposed I-87 near Williamston, passing through Jacksonville, New Bern, and Washington.

[tolbs17]

Also, I'm pretty sure they didn't want to choose 1 or 4 because of the graveyard (Brunswick Memorial Gardens) that it might plow through.

If that's the case, 2 is also unlikely.

Yes, I-99 will be the number used for it.

[tjcreasy]

I don't know if discussing an interstate designation ventures too far into fictional considering a majority of this new route will be built in North Carolina with a long term goal of connecting to I-140. NCDOT will undoubtably build this route to interstate standards.

Improving travel between the Northeast and Wilmington/Myrtle Beach should be a high priority. Having a single interstate corridor over 200 plus miles with improved travel times over the existing options seems more than logical especially when a large portion of this route exists today.

[sparker]

I don't know if discussing an interstate designation ventures too far into fictional considering a majority of this new route will be built in North Carolina with a long term goal of connecting to I-140. NCDOT will undoubtably build this route to interstate standards.

Improving travel between the Northeast and Wilmington/Myrtle Beach should be a high priority. Having a single interstate corridor over 200 plus miles with improved travel times over the existing options seems more than logical especially when a large portion of this route exists today.

Technically, it's certainly not fictional from SC 9 north past this particular study area all the way to the junction of US 17 and NC 211 at Supply, since after 1995 it's been part of the longstanding I-74/HPC #5 alignment.  Although that route is supposed to turn inland along NC 211, there's been a general consensus that a corridor continuing north on US 17 to the I-140 bypass of Wilmington is by far a more useful idea than anything parallel to NC 211, since that routing generally duplicates the I-73 corridor within SC (if that ever gets built!); a corresponding extension of I-74 all the way along US 74/76 into Wilmington has been posited as the 2nd leg of a Wilmington Interstate server.

But regardless of what happens in the Wilmington area, the study area depicted in the previous post's maps is hardly a fictional undertaking, although any extensions might be considered to be so.  But given NC's proclivities toward establishing Interstate corridors, just about anything --especially along US 17 -- could be well within the realm of possibility.   

[wdcrft63]

I don't know if discussing an interstate designation ventures too far into fictional considering a majority of this new route will be built in North Carolina with a long term goal of connecting to I-140. NCDOT will undoubtably build this route to interstate standards.

Improving travel between the Northeast and Wilmington/Myrtle Beach should be a high priority. Having a single interstate corridor over 200 plus miles with improved travel times over the existing options seems more than logical especially when a large portion of this route exists today.

A better plan for the Supply area would be a new route a little to the north tying into the existing Bolivia Bypass a mile or two farther north. The Bypass is expressway-grade, rather easy to upgrade to a freeway. This plus the SC 31 extension would create about half of a Myrtle Beach to Wilmington freeway connection.

Technically, it's certainly not fictional from SC 9 north past this particular study area all the way to the junction of US 17 and NC 211 at Supply, since after 1995 it's been part of the longstanding I-74/HPC #5 alignment.  Although that route is supposed to turn inland along NC 211, there's been a general consensus that a corridor continuing north on US 17 to the I-140 bypass of Wilmington is by far a more useful idea than anything parallel to NC 211, since that routing generally duplicates the I-73 corridor within SC (if that ever gets built!); a corresponding extension of I-74 all the way along US 74/76 into Wilmington has been posited as the 2nd leg of a Wilmington Interstate server.

But regardless of what happens in the Wilmington area, the study area depicted in the previous post's maps is hardly a fictional undertaking, although any extensions might be considered to be so.  But given NC's proclivities toward establishing Interstate corridors, just about anything --especially along US 17 -- could be well within the realm of possibility.   

[tolbs17]

I don't know if discussing an interstate designation ventures too far into fictional considering a majority of this new route will be built in North Carolina with a long term goal of connecting to I-140. NCDOT will undoubtably build this route to interstate standards.

Improving travel between the Northeast and Wilmington/Myrtle Beach should be a high priority. Having a single interstate corridor over 200 plus miles with improved travel times over the existing options seems more than logical especially when a large portion of this route exists today.

A better plan for the Supply area would be a new route a little to the north tying into the existing Bolivia Bypass a mile or two farther north. The Bypass is expressway-grade, rather easy to upgrade to a freeway. This plus the SC 31 extension would create about half of a Myrtle Beach to Wilmington freeway connection.

Technically, it's certainly not fictional from SC 9 north past this particular study area all the way to the junction of US 17 and NC 211 at Supply, since after 1995 it's been part of the longstanding I-74/HPC #5 alignment.  Although that route is supposed to turn inland along NC 211, there's been a general consensus that a corridor continuing north on US 17 to the I-140 bypass of Wilmington is by far a more useful idea than anything parallel to NC 211, since that routing generally duplicates the I-73 corridor within SC (if that ever gets built!); a corresponding extension of I-74 all the way along US 74/76 into Wilmington has been posited as the 2nd leg of a Wilmington Interstate server.

But regardless of what happens in the Wilmington area, the study area depicted in the previous post's maps is hardly a fictional undertaking, although any extensions might be considered to be so.  But given NC's proclivities toward establishing Interstate corridors, just about anything --especially along US 17 -- could be well within the realm of possibility.   

Quoting?

[The Ghostbuster]

Is there any chance that a northern extension of the CBP might be canceled, with the northern terminus permanently ending at SC 9? If North and South Carolina can't come to a consensus on what route future Interstate 74 will take from Myrtle Beach to Wilmington, they might just scrap the whole extension plan. I'm not saying that is what is going to happen (I hope it doesn't), but it is possible.

[sparker]

Is there any chance that a northern extension of the CBP might be canceled, with the northern terminus permanently ending at SC 9? If North and South Carolina can't come to a consensus on what route future Interstate 74 will take from Myrtle Beach to Wilmington, they might just scrap the whole extension plan. I'm not saying that is what is going to happen (I hope it doesn't), but it is possible.

The CBP extension will likely see development sooner or later if only to serve as relief for the congestion on US 17 between Wilmington and Myrtle Beach, Interstate aspirations notwithstanding.  Tourist-related interests in both states see benefit in improving the coastal connection; the tenets heading inland via I-74 and the perennially-postponed I-73 are ancillary to the localized push for an efficient way to move along the coast with, of course, numerous connecting pathways down to the beach and its associated means of separating tourists from their money!  The traffic along that section of coast has gotten so bad that, even prior to the COVID situation, it was posing an obstacle to the overall tourist trade (if it's too much of a PITA to reach the beach, a lot of folks won't even try or go elsewhere on the coast).  A completed freeway extending from north of Wilmington to south of Myrtle gives the commercialized area what it wants -- enhanced local circulation.  Once that has been achieved (or is in process) attention can be then turned to I-73 and I-74 as "feeders".     

[sturmde]

Alternatives 1A and 4A seem like the most likely. As for any potential "interstate" designation - we're now getting fictional here - it'd seem most logical to have such a corridor follow up US-17 to meet the proposed I-87 near Williamston, passing through Jacksonville, New Bern, and Washington.

.
Which is another rationale for having a Southern I-89.  Consider I-95 to be farther west than it should be and out of the grid.  Then you've got 85 - 87 - 89.

[carbaugh2]

Is there any chance that a northern extension of the CBP might be canceled, with the northern terminus permanently ending at SC 9? If North and South Carolina can't come to a consensus on what route future Interstate 74 will take from Myrtle Beach to Wilmington, they might just scrap the whole extension plan. I'm not saying that is what is going to happen (I hope it doesn't), but it is possible.

The agreement between North and South Carolina dating back to 2005 is that I-74 or a spur of it will make it to Myrtle Beach. The concept of running I-74 directly to Wilmington and improving US 17 and the Carolina Bays Parkway into a spur of I-74 would certainly fit this agreement.

[sparker]

Alternatives 1A and 4A seem like the most likely. As for any potential "interstate" designation - we're now getting fictional here - it'd seem most logical to have such a corridor follow up US-17 to meet the proposed I-87 near Williamston, passing through Jacksonville, New Bern, and Washington.

.
Which is another rationale for having a Southern I-89.  Consider I-95 to be farther west than it should be and out of the grid.  Then you've got 85 - 87 - 89.

Why import another New England/Northeast Interstate designation hundreds of miles south?  If NC elects to deploy an Interstate-grade freeway along US 17, Just make all of it, including the portion of I-87 (gag!) planned along that US route, a southern I-97 (hey, it's all east of I-95) and give the US 64 portion of HPC #13 the even number it should have had to begin with.  That number is the only one that would ever stand a snowball's chance in hell of connecting with an existing alignment.   

[tolbs17]

Will SCDOT build their portion or are they trying to wait for NCDOT to start construction on it? This could easily tie onto Hickman Road until it gets extended again when NCDOT is ready to build it.

[Mapmikey]

Will SCDOT build their portion or are they trying to wait for NCDOT to start construction on it? This could easily tie onto Hickman Road until it gets extended again when NCDOT is ready to build it.

it is a joint project.  See this website for lots of good info.  The draft EIS is due out in spring 2022.  South Carolina is set to start ROW purchases in 2023.

Note that only 1 of the 7 alternate routes touches Hickman Rd on the SC side...

[tolbs17]

Will SCDOT build their portion or are they trying to wait for NCDOT to start construction on it? This could easily tie onto Hickman Road until it gets extended again when NCDOT is ready to build it.

it is a joint project.  See this website for lots of good info.  The draft EIS is due out in spring 2022.  South Carolina is set to start ROW purchases in 2023.

Note that only 1 of the 7 alternate routes touches Hickman Rd on the SC side...

Done. And I voted for 1A because it appears to have the least impacts.

[PColumbus73]

Reasonably, the parkway could be extended 2.5 miles southwards to US-17, then upgrade 5 miles of the pre-existing bypass down to the southern terminus to freeway standards, since it's limited-access but has intersections & frontage roads.

From what I understand, there is no planned extension of SC 31 to US 17.

BUT... if the proposed Southern Evacuation Lifeline (SELL) highway, which is apart of Horry County's RIDE program, gets built, I believe there is a plan to extend SC 31 to meet the SELL highway, which itself would end at US 17.

For background, the SELL highway is a proposed toll highway that would begin at the interchange with US 501 and SC 22 and travel the southern portion of Horry County until it reached it's end at US 17 near Glenns Bay Road, combined with SC 22, it would create a beltway around Myrtle Beach, similar to I-526 in Charleston, but with a larger radius.