NY 17 / I-86 Conversion Resurrected?

[froggie]

Even the new Woodrow Wilson Bridge (I-95/495 over the Potomac) has a drawbridge.  But while it exists (and is fairly rare), there's nothing that expressly prohibits Interstates from having drawbridges.

Preferred?  No.  But prohibited?  Also no.

[ixnay]

Because I-278 was an "original Interstate route", i.e. designated as part of the official system.  New routes added to the system since then have had to meet Interstate standards of the time before they get included.

NY 17 also has a few true at-grade intersections with cross traffic. Won't find that on I-278 even with how substandard it is.

No, but you will find it on I-70, I-78, and I-180.

We know about Breezewood, and there used to be at-grades on I-70 (ex-I-70N) east of Frederick (Ijamsville Road, for example) before that gap was bypassed, but are there at-grades elsewhere on 70?  And where are at-grades on I-78?

ixnay

[odditude]

And where are at-grades on I-78?

the Holland Tunnel approach on the NJ side has several streetlights.

[AMLNet49]

Because I-278 was an "original Interstate route", i.e. designated as part of the official system.  New routes added to the system since then have had to meet Interstate standards of the time before they get included.

NY 17 also has a few true at-grade intersections with cross traffic. Won't find that on I-278 even with how substandard it is.

No, but you will find it on I-70, I-78, and I-180.

We know about Breezewood, and there used to be at-grades on I-70 (ex-I-70N) east of Frederick (Ijamsville Road, for example) before that gap was bypassed, but are there at-grades elsewhere on 70?  And where are at-grades on I-78?

ixnay

In New Jersey there are 4 intersections between the NJ-139 interchange and the tunnel

[Rothman]

*reads back*

*yawns*

Still nothing but Woodbury Commons (Exit 131) going to happen in terms of I-86 conversion over the next five years unless there's a massive administration change and tidal change in political pressures.

[ixnay]

And where are at-grades on I-78?

the Holland Tunnel approach on the NJ side has several streetlights.

Yeah, that's right.

ixnay

[The Ghostbuster]

Was there ever a plan to connect the Holland Tunnel and the end of the New Jersey Turnpike Newark Extension with a freeway? I've never seen any documentation that there was.

[vdeane]

Exit 131 is in the Assembly budget.  In unrelated budget news, BOTH the assembly and senate have rejected Cuomo's proposed tax credit on E-ZPass tolls over $50.

[Alps]

Was there ever a plan to connect the Holland Tunnel and the end of the New Jersey Turnpike Newark Extension with a freeway? I've never seen any documentation that there was.

I've never seen a plan. I've drawn one up where you take one lane from 139 and one lane from 78, run them down the middle, and have two lanes on either side at ground level. In order to not cut off Marin Blvd., this would require AET: the freeway merges into one lane, and the ground ramps come together as the other tunnel lane. Or cut off Marin and use the existing toll plaza. Coming out of the city is easier, because you can get two lanes up on the freeway and onto either side without cutting anything off.

[tckma]

And I-278 (as well as I-695 in MD) has a drawbridge on it.

Isn't 695 in Baltimore and AA Counties technically a state route, even though it's signed as an interstate?  And that's how MD can get away with non-mileage-based exit numbers on 695, too?

[froggie]

And that's how MD can get away with non-mileage-based exit numbers on 695, too?

The MUTCD requirement for mileage-based exit numbers is not limited to Interstates.  It should also be noted that most of those Maryland non-Interstates that have exit numbers (namely US 29 in Howard County, US 50, US 340, MD 32, MD 100, and MD 200) have mile-based exit numbers.  The only exception I can think of offhand is US 15 through Frederick, but that's also much older-vintage freeway.

[The Ghostbuster]

Back to the subject title, I hope the exit 84-87 segment of NY 17 is eventually upgraded to Interstate Standards. Otherwise, Interstate 86 should not go any further east.

[noelbotevera]

If interest was already going ebb and eventually peter out, what was the point of having an interstate through the Catskills and Southern Tier? NY 17 as a freeway/expressway is good enough, besides, is there a ton of traffic that goes through Woodbury Commons or Hancock to Hale Eddy?

[vdeane]

Woodbury Commons, definitely.  That part of the state is very much part of NYC's suburbia, and Orange County is big enough to have its own MPO.  Woodbury Commons is basically a large shopping mall.

Hale Eddy is the opposite.  If that part of NY 17 ever becomes I-87, it will be in competition with the Northway in Essex County for least traveled section of interstate in NY.

[Alps]

Woodbury Commons, definitely.  That part of the state is very much part of NYC's suburbia, and Orange County is big enough to have its own MPO.  Woodbury Commons is basically a large shopping mall.

Hale Eddy is the opposite.  If that part of NY 17 ever becomes I-86, it will be in competition with the Northway in Essex County for least traveled section of interstate in NY.

You have the traffic counts for that? I've been up there and there's a steady stream of cars.

[vdeane]

Traffic Data Viewer (ohhhh... an update!  The 2014 counts weren't available as of just yesterday!) puts the count at ~7500 west of Hale Eddy (August 2014 count).

[Snappyjack]

The numbers I pulled are as follows. Hancock to Hale Eddy shows counts at 9047, while Hale Eddy to Deposit drops to 7598, and a small stretch west of there to the Sanford exit is 6683. 6215 is the lowest count on I-87.

[Mapmikey]

And that's how MD can get away with non-mileage-based exit numbers on 695, too?

The MUTCD requirement for mileage-based exit numbers is not limited to Interstates.  It should also be noted that most of those Maryland non-Interstates that have exit numbers (namely US 29 in Howard County, US 50, US 340, MD 32, MD 100, and MD 200) have mile-based exit numbers.  The only exception I can think of offhand is US 15 through Frederick, but that's also much older-vintage freeway.

US 15 does appear to have mileage based exit numbers (starts at brand new Exit 9 which is at US 15 MM 10).  US 340 has no exit numbers on its solo freeway portion.

[cl94]

The already Interstate-quality section west of Deposit is the lowest on the Quickway and a good 10% more than the lowest count on I-87. 6683 isn't much more than parts near the western end, which nears 7000 west of Jamestown. I'll bet that traffic on that section of the Quickway is much less affected by the seasons than the Northway. Regardless, the section that would be upgraded would see 20% more traffic than the quiet part of the Northway and I only see that number increasing as Stroudsburg becomes more of a pain or if they increase the Jersey Exit Tax again.

[Duke87]

Hancock to Hale Eddy shows counts at 9047, while Hale Eddy to Hancock drops to 7598

So wait, does this mean there is more traffic westbound than eastbound? Or did you mean to say "Deposit" in the second bit?

[Snappyjack]

Hancock to Hale Eddy shows counts at 9047, while Hale Eddy to Hancock drops to 7598

So wait, does this mean there is more traffic westbound than eastbound? Or did you mean to say "Deposit" in the second bit?

Yes, I meant Deposit. Fixed.

[vdeane]

The numbers I pulled are as follows. Hancock to Hale Eddy shows counts at 9047, while Hale Eddy to Deposit drops to 7598, and a small stretch west of there to the Sanford exit is 6683. 6215 is the lowest count on I-87.

The numbers listed on top of the segments are run through forecasting formulas.  Further, I've come to the conclusion that the update is still in progress, and they're also all wrong right now (the most extreme example of this is the section of NY 342 south of I-781, which is still showing the pre-781 AADT value on the map; also, the shapefiles are missing all the stations that have 5000 series numbers) (finally, a tool we use internally called Traffic Data Forecaster is acting weird right now).  If you click on the segment a window will pop up with an "Open Report" link that can be used to pull up the last count and get the "real" AADT from there, which is where my 7500 came from.

[rickmastfan67]

And that's how MD can get away with non-mileage-based exit numbers on 695, too?

The MUTCD requirement for mileage-based exit numbers is not limited to Interstates.

Tell that to PA.  They are still using sequential exit numbers for PA-28, even though all the Interstates (& PA Turnpike routes) were converted back in 2000.

[froggie]

As I recall, the PA 28 exit numbers predate the requirement.

[tckma]

Tell that to PA.  They are still using sequential exit numbers for PA-28, even though all the Interstates (& PA Turnpike routes) were converted back in 2000.

Also, 16 years later, I think it's time to remove the "Old Ext 32" (e.g.) signs, don't you?  If someone's coming to PA and they remember the way they went > 16 years ago was to take "exit 32" someplace and it's now exit 257 or something... well, either they don't go to that place often enough and/or should distrust their memory.