Most Worthless Control Cities

[amroad17]

Gulfport is where US 49 intersects and is a popular beach destination.  It's much better than Bay St. Louis, that was a hold out from when I-10 was still being built as it ended there ( or before there) which is why LADOTD chose that originally.

I-10 was completed near the Louisiana-Mississippi line (to Exit 2) and the Alabama-Mississippi line (where it merged with US 90 at the line) long before the rest was even started in Mississippi.  That is why Bay St. Louis is used EB instead of Gulfport or Mobile and why Pascagoula is used WB in Alabama instead of Gulfport/Biloxi or New Orleans.

We can more than likely agree that these control points need to be updated.

If I was to pick one I think I'd just go with Mobile. Followed by Tallahassee and Jacksonville east of there.

For WB I'd just use Baton Rouge, then Lafayette, Beaumont, Houston, San Antonio, El Paso, Phoenix, Los Angeles.

I would add Gulfport and Pensacola to the above EB list.  However, Mississippi uses Mobile instead of Gulfport or Biloxi at the Exit 2 interchange. https://goo.gl/maps/QSYk98stzD7wRt1t6
New Orleans is used at Exit 75 (first WB interchange in Mississippi), https://goo.gl/maps/v8t9yKVQiR8WvXbU9  thus proving that the control points in Louisiana and Alabama need to be updated and that even Mississippi does not believe their cities are worthy of mention as control points along I-10.

[MATraveler128]

Having spent a few days in the Asheville area in NC, I can't help but wonder why NCDOT decided to use Statesville on I-40 east. Westbound is fine as it is signed for Knoxville, but Statesville makes no sense. I get that it's the junction of I-77, but Winston-Salem or Greensboro would make more sense.

[Flint1979]

Having spent a few days in the Asheville area in NC, I can't help but wonder why NCDOT decided to use Statesville on I-40 east. Westbound is fine as it is signed for Knoxville, but Statesville makes no sense. I get that it's the junction of I-77, but Winston-Salem or Greensboro would make more sense.

Same reason it's used on I-77 north from Charlotte. It's an Interstate junction, not too small of a place either really. I believe the point is that Statesville would be a turning off point going north and south on I-77 and you haven't reached Winston-Salem or Greensboro yet.

[hotdogPi]

Statesville is used on I-77 north from Charlotte because there are no other good options. Going east on I-40, however, there are two good options that BlueOutback7 just listed.

[hbelkins]

Having spent a few days in the Asheville area in NC, I can't help but wonder why NCDOT decided to use Statesville on I-40 east. Westbound is fine as it is signed for Knoxville, but Statesville makes no sense. I get that it's the junction of I-77, but Winston-Salem or Greensboro would make more sense.

The reason is in bold above, and it's a perfectly good reason. Statesville is a decision point for traffic.

[hbelkins]

Statesville is used on I-77 north from Charlotte because there are no other good options. Going east on I-40, however, there are two good options that BlueOutback7 just listed.

So you subscribe to the theory that control cities can be/should be different for two different intersecting roads that meet there?

Sounds like Virginia -- I-81 is signed for Roanoke/Bristol but I-77 is signed for Wytheville instead of Charlotte/Beckley.

[SkyPesos]

I wonder how much long-distance traffic actually use the ramps in a (near) 90-degree interstate to interstate junction. I-70/I-77 in Cambridge, OH is similar to Statesville, and using diagonal routes are much preferable than using this interchange. I-76 and US 250 covers the northeast quadrant, I-71 for the northwest, US 23/35 and US 33 for the southwest and I-79 for the southeast. This is a good enough reason to not sign Cambridge as a control city on either I-70 or I-77 even though it's an interstate junction (which OhioDOT doesn't anyways)

[Flint1979]

Statesville is used on I-77 north from Charlotte because there are no other good options. Going east on I-40, however, there are two good options that BlueOutback7 just listed.

Statesville is used north of Charlotte because it's at the junction of I-40. There might not be too many good choices but Statesville is a good enough choice. A lot of people here seem to think that a control city has to be a big city which it does not.

[Flint1979]

Using I-40 west to I-77 south was the way to get from my uncle's house who lived outside of Winston-Salem to Charlotte, even quicker than taking I-285 to I-85 so I've used the ramps from I-40 west to I-77 south and I-77 north to I-40 east more than a few times. I've spent the night in Statesville before as well so to be honest about it I think people are nitpicking too much on what should or shouldn't be a control city. Just because a city is bigger doesn't mean it should be used first.

[amroad17]

Having spent a few days in the Asheville area in NC, I can't help but wonder why NCDOT decided to use Statesville on I-40 east. Westbound is fine as it is signed for Knoxville, but Statesville makes no sense. I get that it's the junction of I-77, but Winston-Salem or Greensboro would make more sense.

You must not have driven through the western I-240/26/40 interchange.  I-40 at that interchange has a control point of Hickory instead of Statesville, which is the control point at the eastern I-40/240/US 74-A interchange.  At the other interchanges along I-40 in the Asheville area (NC 191, US 25), Black Mountain and Canton are used.  The newest interchange, US 25A, uses Asheville (?!?) and Hickory.  These are holdovers from when I-40 was partially completed (to Canton WB and to Black Mountain EB as I-40 wasn't officially designated on the section between Ridgecrest and Old Fort until 1982—it was officially just US 70).  Unfortunately, many DOT's carbon copy signs instead of updating them.  The control points in the Asheville area should be Knoxville and Statesville.

As far as I-77's control points, many of those used are smaller cities.  Going NB from Charlotte, it is Statesville, Elkin (used at the US 421/I-77 interchange), Wytheville, Bluefield, Beckley, Charleston, Parkersburg, Cleveland (with a few Canton's and Akron's signed).  There is no way that NCDOT would use Charlotte and Charleston WV (or Cleveland) at the I-40/I-77 interchange in Statesville–they aren't Illinois.  There are a few mileage signs on I-77 north of Statesville that list Ft. Chiswell as the bottom destination of the two shown.  NCDOT should seriously look into updating control points and mileage signs throughout the state.  Elkin should never be used as a control point nor should Hickory, Benson, and Dunn.  However, these cities can be used on mileage signs.  Maybe Mt. Airy will be changed to Wytheville along US 52 when I-74 is signed along that section north of Rural Hall.

As an aside, it was good to be that the control point for I-77 NB on I-40 was changed from Elkin to Wytheville and that the control point for I-40 WB was changed from Hickory to Asheville.

[Flint1979]

The western I-240/26/40 exit also has Biltmore Estate on it for an EB control city on I-40. Isn't that a horse racing track or something like that?

[MATraveler128]

The western I-240/26/40 exit also has Biltmore Estate on it for an EB control city on I-40. Isn't that a horse racing track or something like that?

Yeah I don't like that they use Biltmore Estate on I-40 east. I get what they're trying to do by helping people get to a tourist destination, but still.

[StogieGuy7]

The western I-240/26/40 exit also has Biltmore Estate on it for an EB control city on I-40. Isn't that a horse racing track or something like that?

Yeah I don't like that they use Biltmore Estate on I-40 east. I get what they're trying to do by helping people get to a tourist destination, but still.

A tourist destination shouldn't really be a control city, it belongs as an addendum (for lack of a better word). Even Disney World isn't an appropriate control city, even if it's definitely needed as a destination on signage for exits that serve it.

[Flint1979]

The western I-240/26/40 exit also has Biltmore Estate on it for an EB control city on I-40. Isn't that a horse racing track or something like that?

Yeah I don't like that they use Biltmore Estate on I-40 east. I get what they're trying to do by helping people get to a tourist destination, but still.

I looked Biltmore Estate up and come to find out it's a historic house museum. I guess it's the largest privately owned house in the United States at nearly 180,000 square feet (about the size of a Walmart Supercenter). TBH I have no interest in visiting this place.

[tmoore952]

The western I-240/26/40 exit also has Biltmore Estate on it for an EB control city on I-40. Isn't that a horse racing track or something like that?

Yeah I don't like that they use Biltmore Estate on I-40 east. I get what they're trying to do by helping people get to a tourist destination, but still.

I looked Biltmore Estate up and come to find out it's a historic house museum. I guess it's the largest privately owned house in the United States at nearly 180,000 square feet (about the size of a Walmart Supercenter). TBH I have no interest in visiting this place.

Actually an old Vanderbilt mansion. I have been there with my wife (in 2004). Spectacular if you are into that kind of thing (I'm not but my wife is, didn't think I'd like it but I did). They also own a lot of land outside of just the house footprint, I remember gardens and a winery.

To get back on topic, I'm not going to try to get into NC's head, nor do I know what relationship the estate has with the state -- but if it was decided that a routing sign was needed (too many tourists getting lost), I'm not going to question their judgment.

[Flint1979]

The thing is I thought Biltmore Estate was a city from just looking at it and then I was wondering why haven't I heard of it before? I'm not familiar with that part of NC but I find it kind of ridiculous to put it on a sign where a control city is supposed to be. Hickory is fine, it comes before Statesville though coming from that direction and Statesville is used on the other end of Asheville.

[Flint1979]

The western I-240/26/40 exit also has Biltmore Estate on it for an EB control city on I-40. Isn't that a horse racing track or something like that?

Yeah I don't like that they use Biltmore Estate on I-40 east. I get what they're trying to do by helping people get to a tourist destination, but still.

I think it's only used once though but I could be wrong. I think Hickory should be used until you get to Hickory then use Statesville after that.

[tmoore952]

The thing is I thought Biltmore Estate was a city from just looking at it and then I was wondering why haven't I heard of it before? I'm not familiar with that part of NC but I find it kind of ridiculous to put it on a sign where a control city is supposed to be. Hickory is fine, it comes before Statesville though coming from that direction and Statesville is used on the other end of Asheville.

FWIW - I had also never heard of it until my wife told me she wanted to go there when we were planning our 2004 trip.

If we jump ahead about 18+ years, I have seen commercials for Biltmore recently in the DC area. (also see them for other areas (e.g., NJ, WV) within a few hours drive -- although Asheville was at least an 8 hour drive from north of DC, when I did it in 2004)

[Ted$8roadFan]

The thing is I thought Biltmore Estate was a city from just looking at it and then I was wondering why haven't I heard of it before? I'm not familiar with that part of NC but I find it kind of ridiculous to put it on a sign where a control city is supposed to be. Hickory is fine, it comes before Statesville though coming from that direction and Statesville is used on the other end of Asheville.

I went there back in 2008. It is a spectacular place to visit - both the estate itself and its setting in the mountains and valleys of Western NC. It is (arguably) the top attraction in Asheville and well worth a visit if you're in that area (and are willing to spend $$ and are into historic estates). All that having been said, it's not a control city. It may have been put there at the behest of the management or some other significant individual with pull.

[SkyPesos]

Biltmore is one of those places I would visit because I'm in the area already, be amazed but also depressed that my wallet got $85 lighter for the per-person entry fee. Definitely not control city worthy.

[mrsman]

How I-80 in PA should look

Eastbound

OH - I-99: State College
I-99 - US 220: Williamsport
US 220 - I-81: Scranton/NYC
From I-81 East: NYC

Westbound

To I-380: Scranton
I-380 - I-180: Williamsport
I-180 - I-99: State College
I-99 - OH: Youngstown (also Cleveland at I-79 and I-376 junctions)

There is beauty in this simplicity!

But I can also see the point of putting in occasional secondaries, especially since the state authorities seem to want every little town mentioned.  But for the  most part, all cities mentioned here are relatively well known regionally.  And there is consistency in both directions.

But I love the suggestion!

[mrsman]

There's an argument to be made that Irvine, a giant suburb on one end of the 405 (300k population), and Santa Clarita, a giant exurb on the other end (225k), are not only great control cities for the 405, but the 5 as well.

I prefer keeping off suburbs. I-5 south of LA should be San Diego and north of LA Sacramento/San Francisco

Irvine is already being used on portions of I-405 south (with San Diego) around CA-22. Irvine blurs the line between suburb and satellite city - it's a major employment and retail center as well as home to a UC campus.

IMO, the modern purpose of control cities is to provide guidance to people not using GPS, or to provide reinforcement to those who are. By and large, locals do not need control cities - so controls that aren't termini or major junctions should be selected on where non-local people (i.e. tourists) are going, directly or indirectly. If you're visiting L.A. and taking I-5 south, it is most likely you're heading to Anaheim or San Diego - those should be the controls. I-5 north, you're most likely going to Sacramento or San Francisco. In that vein, US-101 out of L.A./Hollywood should be signed for Santa Barbara (instead of Ventura). Secondary controls are fine (I'm always in favor of two controls per sign).

Irvine is only on the I-405 signs in Orange County because they (District 12) want to have their county represented on signs (see also I-5 northbound for Santa Ana where it used to say Los Angeles within OC limits) - LA county (District 7) doesn't care and signs San Diego only

You may be ascribing malice to District 7 when it's really inertia - when I-405 was originally signed Irvine was little more than a bump in the road. Re-signing projects largely just replicate what was there before.

It also should be noted that if Irvine was signed further up the I-405, it would start at I-710 (only ~4 miles upstream). From the last Google street view (February 2023), the pull-through signage at I-710 is still original (or at least button-copy era); and approaching CA-22/I-605, the signage covers both I-405 south (San Diego) and CA-22 east (Garden Grove), so not a lot of extra room available.

My thoughts are that control cities for 2dis should ideally be the biggest cities: Phoenix, Sacramento, San Diego.  And the 3dis that lead to it shold also have similar cities used.

With regard to Sacramento, this is absolutely followed currently.  And it is a good practice.  I-5 and roads that lead to it (405, 170, 210) all have that control and signify the road leading out of town to the north.

5 and 405 used to have san diego south of Santa Ana and Long Beach.  Replacing San diego with Irvine is not helpful.

The NB control of I-5  in OC should simply  be L.A.  (Replacing this with santa ana is not helpfl.)

So if D12 wants to add Irvine or Santa Ana or Anaheim or whatever - it should be as an addition, not a replacement.

The control cities in the LA area also have a feature of reminiscing the old names of the freeways that are now not to be posted.  Pomona Fwy for 60, San Bernardino Fwy for 10, Santa Ana Fwy for 5.  Because of this, I am more tolerant of keeping some of the more local controls on certain freeways -- but it is frustrating at times.  60 onlly hits the edge of Pomona (10 is usually a better way of getting to most of Pomona).  10 skirts the southern parts of San Bernardino and now 210 reaches the more central parts of it.

So if money were no object, I would replace a lot of controls for many of the LA area freeways to be more consistent with where the freeways actually go and to have more long distance destinations on the 2dis and roads that lead to the 2dis.

[mrsman]

Ran4sh,

I love your signature:

Control cities CAN be off the route!
Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

And this absolutely fits the theme of this thread. 

Picking good control cities can be a little challenging.  The idea is that it must be a proper city and leads to where people are going, not limited to where the highway ends up.

So as one example, the SB control for I-15 from Las Vegas is Los Angeles.  This is where most traffic is going and it is a big well know city.  When crossing into CA, the control city changes to San Bernardino.  This is a huge mistake as L.A. is still where most traffic is headed and even though I-15 doesn't hit L.A. directly (or San Bernardino for that matter), it should absolutely be signed as such until you get to I-10 and traffic is then further directed to L.A.

The Caltrans D7 standard seems to sign L.A. as a control all the way to Downtown.  This isn't strictly necessary.  Many areas that are clearly within the city should instead have a control of Downtown LA or LA Civic Center (there is a difference) as the case may be.  Basically anywhere within the city limits that is south of the Santa Monica Mountains and north of I-105 the controls for L.A. on freeways like 5, 10, 101 should probably be replaced with "Downtown L.A."  It is certainly weird to be directed toward Los Angeles from the USC area which is well within the city and only a few miles from the heart of Downtown.

But at the same time, the control city should not end right at the city limit without clear direction to Downtown.  One bad offender here is Memphis.  Yes, you are within city limits at 40/240 at teh east end of town, but helpful directions to Downtown are probably better accepted than guide signs to Little Rock.

[Chrysler375Freeway]

As for the even-numbered east-west two-digit Interstates: I-80 and I-90 eastbound use Indiana instead of South Bend or Toledo, or even cities like Hammond and Gary. Likewise, it uses Iowa westbound as opposed to Davenport or Moline, or even Joliet. I-94 uses Wisconsin or Indiana, as opposed to Milwaukee, although some signs north of the Chicago Loop say Milwaukee, and the Indiana signs say Indiana as opposed to Detroit.

[Lukeisroads]

You know District 6 you could have put barstow instead of mojave working with district 8 but nope https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3436168,-119.0394765,0a,99y,16.23h,90.27t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s3PczSSl5HV00pCu9WUBzbA!2e0?source=apiv3