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Author Topic: US 31 --> I-67 ?  (Read 22228 times)

silverback1065

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2016, 07:48:47 PM »

Aren't Henderson and Owensboro getting connected by I-X69?
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vegas1962

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #51 on: April 12, 2016, 10:30:58 PM »

I honestly think that neither INDOT nor the lobby group pushing to upgrade 31 has ever mentioned i-67 at all.  So I'm not sure if it's even on anyone's radar.

And I doubt Michigan would be interested at all.  A US highway freeway is just as good as an Interstate freeway.
I agree with both of these points.  Plus, assuming that InDOT puts I-67 on that corridor, what becomes of US-31?  Multiplex with I-67, or just de-commission?

Just as when InDOT wanted to de-commission US-27 north of Indy, it could not do so without Michigan DOT taking similar action on its own portion on US-27.  US-31 isn't going away in Indiana without a big assist from MDOT regarding its own (very significant) portion of the road.  I can't imagine a scenario where Michigan would see any value in de-commissioning US-31.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2016, 03:38:55 PM »

How soon does anyone think it will be before Interstate 67 signs appear? I'd say a very long time, if ever. So why are we still talking about this?
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silverback1065

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2016, 09:50:38 PM »

How soon does anyone think it will be before Interstate 67 signs appear? I'd say a very long time, if ever. So why are we still talking about this?

50 yrs?+
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CobaltYoshi27

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #54 on: April 14, 2016, 10:33:35 PM »

What would be the purpose of it? Traffic from the west will take I-65 to Indy and traffic from the east will take I-69. It'd be a completely regional route, which in my view doesn't necessitate an Interstate designation.
Below are the lengths of other 2dis for comparison:

   I-17   146
   I-19   102
   i-22   213
   I-27   124
   I-37   143
   I-41   176
   I-43   192
   i-45   285
   i-66   76
   I-68   113
   I-72   184
   I-73   82
   I-78   144
   I-82   144
   I-83   85
   I-84 e   232
   I-86 w   101
   I-88 e   118
   I-88 w   141
   I-89   191
   i-96   192
   I-97   18
   I-99   99


While an Intersate designation would not be necessary, it would be easily justifiable.
  I-19 was in kilometers, so it would be just over 60 miles.  I-12 is not listed, and it's a glorified 3-d bypass of about 85 miles.
Do not forget I-2 in Texas.  Its just about over 46 miles long.
By comparison, I-476 in PA is 129 miles long, and that's longer than eleven 2di's!

I-16 is 167 miles long, I-76 W is 188 miles long and I-93 is 190 miles long.
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dvferyance

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2016, 10:47:12 PM »

I could see it happening though not for awhile.
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ftballfan

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2016, 09:24:40 PM »

I drove past the northern end of the US 31 freeway in MI along Napier Avenue just a couple of months ago.  Thought I read somewhere that it was never completed to tie into I-94 or I-196 because of local opposition or lack of demand.  Can't imagine that it'd be a priority to build now if it hasn't been already.

It was never completed because it would have encroached on the habitat of an endangered butterfly. The alternative now is to build the freeway up to where BL 94 joins I-94, but construction hasn't yet started.

Makes me wonder how far work is along getting such a project to construction at this point.
It would have been built already if this stretch were in Detroit or Grand Rapids
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hbelkins

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #57 on: November 10, 2016, 09:56:29 PM »

I just drove this route today (Indy to South Bend). I will state again, for the record, that converting existing US 31 to a full freeway would be a total and complete waste of money. There are probably fewer than 10 traffic lights on the route (I didn't think to count them) and traffic flows very, very well. North of Kokomo there was very little traffic. I was driving at 65-70 on a mostly 60-mph road and was being passed by quite a few vehicles.

Again I say -- not everything needs to be a full freeway. And this route certainly doesn't.
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cabiness42

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2016, 07:39:30 AM »

I just drove this route today (Indy to South Bend). I will state again, for the record, that converting existing US 31 to a full freeway would be a total and complete waste of money. There are probably fewer than 10 traffic lights on the route (I didn't think to count them) and traffic flows very, very well. North of Kokomo there was very little traffic. I was driving at 65-70 on a mostly 60-mph road and was being passed by quite a few vehicles.

Again I say -- not everything needs to be a full freeway. And this route certainly doesn't.

Thank you.  I drive New Albany/Jeffersonville to South Bend several times per year.  I get far more frustrated at the lack of a 3rd lane on 65 betweeen Sellersbug and Greenwood than I do at the few stoplights that are left on 31. 

I think it would be really cool to see an interstate in the county where I grew up (Marshall County) but I don't think it's necessary.  Although they could make 31 from the ITR to Plymouth I-180 without doing the rest of the upgrades.
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silverback1065

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2016, 05:16:21 PM »

complete the gap between westfield and kokomo and it would be good for a while
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mvak36

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2016, 07:16:47 PM »

complete the gap between westfield and kokomo and it would be good for a while

Agree. I think they need to focus on finishing I-69 and widening 65 and 70 statewide before they need to worry about having to complete the freeway (if they even need to at that point)
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codyg1985

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2016, 07:59:54 PM »

complete the gap between westfield and kokomo and it would be good for a while

Agree. I think they need to focus on finishing I-69 and widening 65 and 70 statewide before they need to worry about having to complete the freeway (if they even need to at that point)

Based on the limited experience I have with it, finishing the freeway up to Kokomo would be good.
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Cody Goodman
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mvak36

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2016, 08:38:06 PM »

complete the gap between westfield and kokomo and it would be good for a while

Agree. I think they need to focus on finishing I-69 and widening 65 and 70 statewide before they need to worry about having to complete the freeway (if they even need to at that point)

Based on the limited experience I have with it, finishing the freeway up to Kokomo would be good.

Yes. I meant to say the part from Kokomo to South Bend (or is it Plymouth???) should be done later. My mistake
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 08:44:43 PM by mvak36 »
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cabiness42

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #63 on: November 12, 2016, 07:46:48 AM »

complete the gap between westfield and kokomo and it would be good for a while

Agree. I think they need to focus on finishing I-69 and widening 65 and 70 statewide before they need to worry about having to complete the freeway (if they even need to at that point)

Based on the limited experience I have with it, finishing the freeway up to Kokomo would be good.

Yes. I meant to say the part from Kokomo to South Bend (or is it Plymouth???) should be done later. My mistake

Yeah, Plymouth to South Bend is already done.  Even the part from Westfield to Kokomo really should be a lower priority than other projects. 
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mukade

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #64 on: November 12, 2016, 11:37:18 PM »

This topic has been discussed over and over. So one last time for my opinion.

Keep in mind, this is a long distance, high speed highway that connects Indianapolis with third biggest metropolitan area in the state (bigger than Fort Wayne and Evansville). It also connects the biggest cities in Western Michigan to points south. As stated, the biggest problems are the 236th Street stoplight, the Division Road stoplight, the Miami County stoplights, the railroad tracks north of SR 28(tanker trucks and buses stop), all of the driveways on the road (this means school buses stop), and farm equipment using the highway in the spring and fall. At least two of these issues are reported to be in line for resolution.

My opinion is that US 31 should be upgraded to freeway standards from US 24 to Kokomo, from Kokomo to SR 38, and then selective upgrades north of US 24. Specific areas north of US 24 include interchanges for that stoplight at the truck stop which is dangerous for many reasons, SR 10, and around Plymouth. THe SR 110 intersection can be problematic with trucks entering and leaving the highway.

I just drove this route today (Indy to South Bend). I will state again, for the record, that converting existing US 31 to a full freeway would be a total and complete waste of money. There are probably fewer than 10 traffic lights on the route (I didn't think to count them) and traffic flows very, very well. North of Kokomo there was very little traffic. I was driving at 65-70 on a mostly 60-mph road and was being passed by quite a few vehicles.

Again I say -- not everything needs to be a full freeway. And this route certainly doesn't.

Thank you.  I drive New Albany/Jeffersonville to South Bend several times per year.  I get far more frustrated at the lack of a 3rd lane on 65 betweeen Sellersbug and Greenwood than I do at the few stoplights that are left on 31. 

I think it would be really cool to see an interstate in the county where I grew up (Marshall County) but I don't think it's necessary.  Although they could make 31 from the ITR to Plymouth I-180 without doing the rest of the upgrades.

Obviously, improvements cannot be limited to one highway like I-65 or to one region. If that were the case, almost all highway funding would be focused on the most populous cities.

If you want to go by the highest traffic counts, I-69 from SR 32 to Pendleton (SR 38) is the inter-city Interstate highway in greatest need of widening - much more than I-65 south of Franklin. After that, I-465 has sections that need to be widened. But the state can and should upgrade certain highways throughout the state as has been the policy by at least Daniels and Pence.

I just drove this route today (Indy to South Bend). I will state again, for the record, that converting existing US 31 to a full freeway would be a total and complete waste of money. There are probably fewer than 10 traffic lights on the route (I didn't think to count them) and traffic flows very, very well. North of Kokomo there was very little traffic. I was driving at 65-70 on a mostly 60-mph road and was being passed by quite a few vehicles.

There are six stoplights. From Indy to Kokomo (or US 24) is frequently a very busy highway because of commuters living in Kokomo and working in Indy and vice versa. I spent the day down in the Indy area today, and as we were driving back north in heavy traffic just after 6:00 pm, I mentioned to my wife (who is certainly no road geek) that some guy on this road forum keeps saying US 31 is perfectly good the way it is. No offense, but her reaction was "what an idiot" because the assertion is so outrageous. People who live here and frequently drive on the road know the heavy traffic and understand the deadly accidents that have occurred. Locals know full well that this road is a big problem as it exists today.

One of the best ways to assess needs and compare with other highways is to simply look at the traffic count maps. Here are some traffic counts from Indiana and other states to consider and compare:

Non-freeway portion of US 31 in Indiana
North of SR 3827,010
South of SR 931 (S)24,075
At Grissom ARB23,661
South of US 2422,238
North of US 2414,275
South of Rochester10,938
South of SR 1016,194
South of US 3016,024

Selected Indiana freeway traffic counts (similar or lower traffic volumes):
I-64   East of I-69   16,342
I-64   East of US 41   17,353
I-64   East of SR 65   13,551
I-64   East of SR 69   12,696
I-64   West of US 231   15,803
I-64   East of SR 37   17,034
I-69   South of Michigan line   19,979
I-69   East of SR 37 inchg.   9807
I-69   East of US 231   6301
I-69   North of Sr 56   6056
I-69   South of SR 168   14,700
I-69   South of I-64   27,913
I-74   East of Greensburg   23,525
I-74   West of Batesville   24,847
I-74   East of Pittsboro   23,098
I-74   East of Crawfordsville   16,029
I-74   East of SR 63   17,074
I-80/90   East of US 31   29,750
I-80/90   West of US 131   25,340
I-80/90   Between I-69 and SR 9   22,300
Imagine the Indiana Toll Road, I-64, or I-74 having driveways, stoplights, and railroad crossings.

Selected Michigan freeway traffic counts:
US 31   At US 12   17400
US 31   N of Walton Rd   16,300
US 31   West of Berrien Springs   14,600
US 31   N of Tabor Rd   9900
US 31   N of Montague   8000-12,000
US 31   S of Napier Rd.   7900
I-196   N of I-94   22,000
I-196   W of M-140   19,400
I-196   At M-89   22,600
US 131    N of Reed City   7500-12,000
US 127   S of I-75   as low as 4800

Selected Illinois freeway traffic counts:
I-55   N of Ill 138   22,000
I-72   West of Decatur   13,400-22,000
I-72   East of Decatur   10,900-15,100
I-74   East of Bloomington   19,500
I-74   East of Galesburg   14,100
I-74   North of Galesburg   13,600
I-172   South of US 24 in Quincy   6900
US 67   N of Ill 255   10,600

Selected Kentucky freeway traffic counts:

I-24   Lyon County   22,168
I-64   West of US 60   25,116
I-69   East of Pennyrile   10,278
I-69   North of Madisonville   16,168
I-69   North of Sebree   11,087
I-69   South of Audobon Pkwy   19,520
US 60   Just east of Owensboro   14,600
Natcher   North of Bowling Green   11,035
Natcher   South of WK   7240
Mtn   East of Ky 974   12,557
Pur   N of Fulton   6604
Pur   N of Mayfield   7241
WK   East of Bardstown   10,969
WK   At Leitchfield   11,775
WK   West of Leitchfield   9750
WK   Rockport   10,175
WK   East of I-69   10,504
Maybe a couple of stoplights on I-64 in Winchester might be good.


To say none of US 31 needs to be upgraded cannot be supported by facts. How much to upgrade the part north of US 24 is debatable, but clearly other states have built freeways carrying significantly less traffic than US 31.


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silverback1065

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2016, 09:54:45 AM »

just about what i was saying, at least finish it up to kokomo, but up to 24 is a better idea.
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monty

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #66 on: November 13, 2016, 09:43:20 PM »

Thanks mukade. The traffic between Kokomo and INDY is heavy and consistent. This highway is getting more dangerous as it also grows in importance because drivers  drive it like a freeway - but it isn't. There have been a number of fatalities at the remaining stoplights.
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monty

theline

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #67 on: November 14, 2016, 03:07:47 PM »

As someone who lives in South Bend and often travels the road, I'll endorse mukade's well-supported ideas. As much as I'd some day like to see the full interstate completed to the Cap City, I realize that the Plymouth to Peru (US-24) portion is a low priority. Everything south of US-24 is needed, sooner rather than later. I'm not saying that this should be the highest priority in the state, but it ranks up there with the others mentioned.
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Terry Shea

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #68 on: November 14, 2016, 06:48:30 PM »

This topic has been discussed over and over. So one last time for my opinion.

Keep in mind, this is a long distance, high speed highway that connects Indianapolis with third biggest metropolitan area in the state (bigger than Fort Wayne and Evansville). It also connects the biggest cities in Western Michigan to points south. As stated, the biggest problems are the 236th Street stoplight, the Division Road stoplight, the Miami County stoplights, the railroad tracks north of SR 28(tanker trucks and buses stop), all of the driveways on the road (this means school buses stop), and farm equipment using the highway in the spring and fall. At least two of these issues are reported to be in line for resolution.

My opinion is that US 31 should be upgraded to freeway standards from US 24 to Kokomo, from Kokomo to SR 38, and then selective upgrades north of US 24. Specific areas north of US 24 include interchanges for that stoplight at the truck stop which is dangerous for many reasons, SR 10, and around Plymouth. THe SR 110 intersection can be problematic with trucks entering and leaving the highway.

I just drove this route today (Indy to South Bend). I will state again, for the record, that converting existing US 31 to a full freeway would be a total and complete waste of money. There are probably fewer than 10 traffic lights on the route (I didn't think to count them) and traffic flows very, very well. North of Kokomo there was very little traffic. I was driving at 65-70 on a mostly 60-mph road and was being passed by quite a few vehicles.

Again I say -- not everything needs to be a full freeway. And this route certainly doesn't.

Thank you.  I drive New Albany/Jeffersonville to South Bend several times per year.  I get far more frustrated at the lack of a 3rd lane on 65 betweeen Sellersbug and Greenwood than I do at the few stoplights that are left on 31. 

I think it would be really cool to see an interstate in the county where I grew up (Marshall County) but I don't think it's necessary.  Although they could make 31 from the ITR to Plymouth I-180 without doing the rest of the upgrades.

Obviously, improvements cannot be limited to one highway like I-65 or to one region. If that were the case, almost all highway funding would be focused on the most populous cities.

If you want to go by the highest traffic counts, I-69 from SR 32 to Pendleton (SR 38) is the inter-city Interstate highway in greatest need of widening - much more than I-65 south of Franklin. After that, I-465 has sections that need to be widened. But the state can and should upgrade certain highways throughout the state as has been the policy by at least Daniels and Pence.

I just drove this route today (Indy to South Bend). I will state again, for the record, that converting existing US 31 to a full freeway would be a total and complete waste of money. There are probably fewer than 10 traffic lights on the route (I didn't think to count them) and traffic flows very, very well. North of Kokomo there was very little traffic. I was driving at 65-70 on a mostly 60-mph road and was being passed by quite a few vehicles.

There are six stoplights. From Indy to Kokomo (or US 24) is frequently a very busy highway because of commuters living in Kokomo and working in Indy and vice versa. I spent the day down in the Indy area today, and as we were driving back north in heavy traffic just after 6:00 pm, I mentioned to my wife (who is certainly no road geek) that some guy on this road forum keeps saying US 31 is perfectly good the way it is. No offense, but her reaction was "what an idiot" because the assertion is so outrageous. People who live here and frequently drive on the road know the heavy traffic and understand the deadly accidents that have occurred. Locals know full well that this road is a big problem as it exists today.

One of the best ways to assess needs and compare with other highways is to simply look at the traffic count maps. Here are some traffic counts from Indiana and other states to consider and compare:

Non-freeway portion of US 31 in Indiana
North of SR 3827,010
South of SR 931 (S)24,075
At Grissom ARB23,661
South of US 2422,238
North of US 2414,275
South of Rochester10,938
South of SR 1016,194
South of US 3016,024

Selected Indiana freeway traffic counts (similar or lower traffic volumes):
I-64   East of I-69   16,342
I-64   East of US 41   17,353
I-64   East of SR 65   13,551
I-64   East of SR 69   12,696
I-64   West of US 231   15,803
I-64   East of SR 37   17,034
I-69   South of Michigan line   19,979
I-69   East of SR 37 inchg.   9807
I-69   East of US 231   6301
I-69   North of Sr 56   6056
I-69   South of SR 168   14,700
I-69   South of I-64   27,913
I-74   East of Greensburg   23,525
I-74   West of Batesville   24,847
I-74   East of Pittsboro   23,098
I-74   East of Crawfordsville   16,029
I-74   East of SR 63   17,074
I-80/90   East of US 31   29,750
I-80/90   West of US 131   25,340
I-80/90   Between I-69 and SR 9   22,300
Imagine the Indiana Toll Road, I-64, or I-74 having driveways, stoplights, and railroad crossings.

Selected Michigan freeway traffic counts:
US 31   At US 12   17400
US 31   N of Walton Rd   16,300
US 31   West of Berrien Springs   14,600
US 31   N of Tabor Rd   9900
US 31   N of Montague   8000-12,000
US 31   S of Napier Rd.   7900
I-196   N of I-94   22,000
I-196   W of M-140   19,400
I-196   At M-89   22,600
US 131    N of Reed City   7500-12,000
US 127   S of I-75   as low as 4800

Selected Illinois freeway traffic counts:
I-55   N of Ill 138   22,000
I-72   West of Decatur   13,400-22,000
I-72   East of Decatur   10,900-15,100
I-74   East of Bloomington   19,500
I-74   East of Galesburg   14,100
I-74   North of Galesburg   13,600
I-172   South of US 24 in Quincy   6900
US 67   N of Ill 255   10,600

Selected Kentucky freeway traffic counts:

I-24   Lyon County   22,168
I-64   West of US 60   25,116
I-69   East of Pennyrile   10,278
I-69   North of Madisonville   16,168
I-69   North of Sebree   11,087
I-69   South of Audobon Pkwy   19,520
US 60   Just east of Owensboro   14,600
Natcher   North of Bowling Green   11,035
Natcher   South of WK   7240
Mtn   East of Ky 974   12,557
Pur   N of Fulton   6604
Pur   N of Mayfield   7241
WK   East of Bardstown   10,969
WK   At Leitchfield   11,775
WK   West of Leitchfield   9750
WK   Rockport   10,175
WK   East of I-69   10,504
Maybe a couple of stoplights on I-64 in Winchester might be good.


To say none of US 31 needs to be upgraded cannot be supported by facts. How much to upgrade the part north of US 24 is debatable, but clearly other states have built freeways carrying significantly less traffic than US 31.



Thank you for posting this.  I'd like to add that sometimes raw traffic figures don't tell the whole story.  I live in Grand Rapids and have family living in Indianapolis.  I prefer to take the shorter route, I-196 to US 31 to Indy and back, but the rest of my family, and I suspect many other people too, prefer taking I-96 to I-69, even though it's much longer and usually takes more time.  People don't like having to stop and will drive miles out of the way to avoid doing so.  So simply looking at traffic count numbers may not always tell the whole story, because people may be intentionally avoiding a route they would obviously take if it were indeed a freeway all the way through.
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JREwing78

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #69 on: November 14, 2016, 11:49:23 PM »

Traffic signals have no business on a rural highway with AADT > 20,000, period. Yes, the highway can handle the traffic, to a point. But it won't do so safely. The more work put into removing traffic signals on US 31, the greater the accident rate at the remaining signals will be.

It's one thing to have them in a suburban setting, when there's few heavy trucks, a lower speed limit, and the expectation you will encounter a signal. It's quite another on rural highways where such stops are few and far between.
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monty

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2016, 07:30:00 PM »

Signs were up and crews were striping the SR 28 interchange today. Opening should be soon!  Today's Kokomo Tribune article again stated INDOT's goal Of a "free flowing traffic system unhindered by stoplights" on US 31 from INDY to South Bend.
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monty

hbelkins

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #71 on: November 18, 2016, 03:37:14 PM »

Indiana would be better served by a better pavement maintenance program instead of turning US 31 into a freeway. Much of US 31, US 20 and US 33 that I drove on last weekend is riddled with potholes and cracks.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #72 on: November 18, 2016, 06:34:38 PM »

I say give up the Interstate 67 fantasies for the US 31 corridor. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Have a nice day!
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roadfan6500

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2018, 09:08:55 PM »

US31 is six-lanes between Kern Rd and US20 in South Bend.  Was the Kern interchange built to carry more lanes one day?  This bridge looks to me like it was built to be able to carry more lanes...

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6083667,-86.2578149,3a,62.3y,72.26h,84.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9Zjm8FCTbpxH4yLwcmbzaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
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Jordanes

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Re: US 31 --> I-67 ?
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2018, 05:40:04 AM »

What would be the purpose of it? Traffic from the west will take I-65 to Indy and traffic from the east will take I-69. It'd be a completely regional route, which in my view doesn't necessitate an Interstate designation.

When I was truck driving back and forth between Kalamazoo and Murfreesboro TN, US 31 in Hoosier was the most direct route.
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