The Sorry State of Affairs in Automobilia in the 1970s, 80s and 90s

[Max Rockatansky]

It is also all about tolerences. A ford V8 will run for hundreds of hundreds of thousands of miles before needing a rebuild. A German engine will have tighter tolerances, and will need a valve adjustment among other things over time, due to how tight they are. a Ford V8 is designed for longevity not outright power. A understressed engine will last forever. Plus BMW engines run on 91 or 93 octane, ford tunes theirs for 87

A strung-out M motor will need valve adjustments only because they run solid lifters - but the entire rest of their line will outlast any 302 out there. Ford guys think 200k miles is a lot. Hell, they think 150k is a lot. Go on any Ford forum and ask about high mileage. Then go on a BMW forum and you'll see double the numbers. There's plenty of guys on the BMW forums with 400k miles on their car. I saw someone open up a 4.0 from an old 740 that had 173k on it - and you could still see the cross-hatching on the cylinder walls. It literally wasn't even broken-in yet.

My haggard ass 325 spent its entire life in NYC - all 212k miles of it - and it runs like it's brand new. Doesn't burn a spot of oil, bounces happily off the rev limiter all day at the track, and you can clearly tell this car was NOT taken care of. At all. Every piece of upholstery torn, every body panel dented, half the switches are broken, convertible top doesn't work - but that engine baby, god damn that engine.

But you know what? It's not just BMW. As long as the chassis will hold out, you see the same from Honda, Toyota, hell - even Hyundai.

But people love to make excuses for the piles of crap that America makes.

Basically if you don't take care of any car it isn't going to last much past 100,000 miles.  That's something you see across the board and isn't exclusive to any particular brand or origin point like Domestic, European or Asian.  To borrow a line from those old Motorweek shows, cars have largely become almost "idiot" proof where they last the buyer 100,000 miles without a fuss despite the beating that typically flung upon them.  For me I've never understood why 100,000 or 150,000 became the mark of when you're supposed to toss a car, they'll last twice as long so long as you follow the maintenance schedule.  Problem with that is that almost everyone in the general public treats their car like a red headed step child or "appliance" if you will....hence why I don't general peruse the used car market since I don't know what was or WASN'T done.

But in regards to this Domestic Guy, Tuner Guy and Euro-Tuner Guy thing that just popped up.  Yes through the mid-70s to the late 1990s the Domestic brands were WAY behind the quality standards in build quality to their overseas counterparts....especially in the compact and mid-sized segments.  That really more than anything led to the gradual grind down of the domestic market share over the last four decades.  I never found that really to be true with push rod V8s per se on the domestic side but I do recall a lot of issues being more common with 4 and 6 cylinder drive trains.  More so the build quality issues were body fit, cheap materials, over all poor design and things of the like.  Pretty much since the early 2000s all the automakers have been on a level playing field in terms of build quality.  There really isn't a substantial difference in the quality you would see from a VW, to a Chevy, to a Toyota, to a Hyundai and that's probably due to consumers basically making it pretty clear that they won't accept the crap from automakers chugged out decades earlier....but wasn't that kind of the point of this thread to begin with?  Regardless, I would certainly hope that a luxury automaker with lower production numbers like BMW or Mercedes would have better build quality standards...  In the instance of BMW, the problem they are having nowadays is that the cars they are chugging out are losing comparison tests to vehicles in similar segments that are way cheaper.  BMW hasn't been about the "driving machine" in about a decade but has become more like Mercedes with a larger emphasis the luxury part of the coin.

[GCrites]

The things that are going out on modern Euro cars isn't internal engine stuff. Pretty much every manufacturer has that stuff down and has for 30 years with the exception of timing belts, tensioners, rollers etc. which aren't themselves internal. It's stuff like radiators, VANOSes, heater cores and other accessory things that are affected by time, heat, fragile plastic pieces, rubber drying out etc. that can make an older Euro car boobytrapped. American cars simply aren't full of those expensive gotchas. Japanese cars used to not have those either, but as they've gotten more complex they have started popping up.

[Max Rockatansky]

AMC Special for today; 66 Marlin, 70 Rebel Machine and 69 SC/Rambler:

[Max Rockatansky]

One of the odder birds to come out of the 1970s:

Always had mixed feelings on these cars.  They seem a lot more approachable for me given that they have a 351 but usually they are owned by the same guy who has the collection of Ferraris for some reason which generally means the examples I've seen have been beaten up pretty badly.

[GCrites]

So they're actually driving the Panteras while the Ferraris sit? Enzo would be displeased.

[Max Rockatansky]

So they're actually driving the Panteras while the Ferraris sit? Enzo would be displeased.

Yep in my old neighborhood in Scottsdale/Paradise Valley out in Arizona it wasn't too unusual to see them parked at local car show.  Anything greater than a Porche usually didn't see much road duty, but you'd see things like Panteras floating about now and then.  That was surprising to hear that about 66% of the Panteras are accounted for. 

[capt.ron]

Those days were suck city.  It all was started in 1971 when compression started coming down because of low to no lead.  Then in 1973 the looks went away with the 5 mph bumper, then 1975 the catalytic converters started putting the nails in the coffin.  From there with only a few exceptions it was all down hill compounded by the oil embargo.  A lot of the cars then became performance cars by just adding some paint, letters, and/or numbers.  Almost all were dogs and fell apart. 

Talking about rebadged cars.  Remember Cadillac rebadged Chevys. 

My wife had a high end Plymouth Acclaim with the V-6.  It really was not a bad car.  For the day it handled pretty good, not too slow, and it was comfortable.  My wife and three daughters took a cross country trip in it.  We had to dump it at 200,000 + miles.  Transmission went out at 77,000 and replaced under partial warranty, we paid half. 

I had a 95 Dodge full size van it was good.  Had the 360 with the old 727 auto with OD, whatever they numbered it with OD.  I got over 200,000 mi out of it then my daughter drove the s*** out of it for another year, but hey, it was really a truck.  I now have a 1993 Dodge Dakota with the V-6 and 216,000 miles on it, the AC still works.  But once again, it is a truck.

Cadillac rebadged Chevys. The ugly Cadillac Cimarron comes to mind. Ugh!
And I agree that the 1970's and early 1980's were a dark period for the American Automobile Industry. Like others have iterated, you have the falling compression ratios, smog pumps, falling final drive axle ratios also, especially from the mid 1970's onto the late 1980's.
My least favorite era was the late 1970's / early 1980's boxy look. The movie National Lampoon's Vacation really takes a jab at the incredibly bad styling cues during that time with that monstrosity Family Truckster, a highly hoked up LTD station wagon. I thought it was funny when Clark had the thing up to 80!
Things got slightly better when the automakers FINALLY went to the 4 speed overdrive automatic transmission (10 years too late... it should have come out in the mid 1970's!!).
My first car was a 1986 mustang with the 2.3 four cylinder. Mediocre gas mileage, compounded by the fact that it leaked gas. Pinged like crazy, even on 91 octane gas.
2nd car was a 1990 mustang with the 5.0 engine. It went fast but boy was it unreliable. Catalytic converters begin to stop up by summer of 1998, causing it to stall when it got hot. Mileage wasn't that bad for a 5.0, as long as you didn't floorboard it all the time. I averaged 20 to 21 mpg overall, and it got 25 to 28 on the highway, thanks to its incredibly tall gearing: 2.73 axle ratio w/ the 4 speed AOD.
3rd car was a 1999 accord. While I missed the acceleration of the 5.0 'stang, the car was reliable. I took a course in electronics at a tech. / trade school so I needed a car that would be reliable and affordable (I was leasing the car at the time).
Traded that for a 2002 Honda Civic 5 spd. that I'm still driving today.
Both Hondas have been very good cars. I'm about to trade off the Civic since things in it are starting to go south, namely the suspension.

[Max Rockatansky]

Those days were suck city.  It all was started in 1971 when compression started coming down because of low to no lead.  Then in 1973 the looks went away with the 5 mph bumper, then 1975 the catalytic converters started putting the nails in the coffin.  From there with only a few exceptions it was all down hill compounded by the oil embargo.  A lot of the cars then became performance cars by just adding some paint, letters, and/or numbers.  Almost all were dogs and fell apart. 

Talking about rebadged cars.  Remember Cadillac rebadged Chevys. 

My wife had a high end Plymouth Acclaim with the V-6.  It really was not a bad car.  For the day it handled pretty good, not too slow, and it was comfortable.  My wife and three daughters took a cross country trip in it.  We had to dump it at 200,000 + miles.  Transmission went out at 77,000 and replaced under partial warranty, we paid half. 

I had a 95 Dodge full size van it was good.  Had the 360 with the old 727 auto with OD, whatever they numbered it with OD.  I got over 200,000 mi out of it then my daughter drove the s*** out of it for another year, but hey, it was really a truck.  I now have a 1993 Dodge Dakota with the V-6 and 216,000 miles on it, the AC still works.  But once again, it is a truck.

Cadillac rebadged Chevys. The ugly Cadillac Cimarron comes to mind. Ugh!
And I agree that the 1970's and early 1980's were a dark period for the American Automobile Industry. Like others have iterated, you have the falling compression ratios, smog pumps, falling final drive axle ratios also, especially from the mid 1970's onto the late 1980's.
My least favorite era was the late 1970's / early 1980's boxy look. The movie National Lampoon's Vacation really takes a jab at the incredibly bad styling cues during that time with that monstrosity Family Truckster, a highly hoked up LTD station wagon. I thought it was funny when Clark had the thing up to 80!
Things got slightly better when the automakers FINALLY went to the 4 speed overdrive automatic transmission (10 years too late... it should have come out in the mid 1970's!!).
My first car was a 1986 mustang with the 2.3 four cylinder. Mediocre gas mileage, compounded by the fact that it leaked gas. Pinged like crazy, even on 91 octane gas.
2nd car was a 1990 mustang with the 5.0 engine. It went fast but boy was it unreliable. Catalytic converters begin to stop up by summer of 1998, causing it to stall when it got hot. Mileage wasn't that bad for a 5.0, as long as you didn't floorboard it all the time. I averaged 20 to 21 mpg overall, and it got 25 to 28 on the highway, thanks to its incredibly tall gearing: 2.73 axle ratio w/ the 4 speed AOD.
3rd car was a 1999 accord. While I missed the acceleration of the 5.0 'stang, the car was reliable. I took a course in electronics at a tech. / trade school so I needed a car that would be reliable and affordable (I was leasing the car at the time).
Traded that for a 2002 Honda Civic 5 spd. that I'm still driving today.
Both Hondas have been very good cars. I'm about to trade off the Civic since things in it are starting to go south, namely the suspension.

My Mom had a blue Vista Cruiser that looked a lot like that Truckster.  She got really offended any time Vacation came on TV. 

[formulanone]

Enzo would be displeased.

From the stories the press and racing drivers have given over the years, it sounds like he was never publicly happy.

[Max Rockatansky]

Enzo would be displeased.

From the stories the press and racing drivers have given over the years, it sounds like he was never publicly happy.

That's one of the reason I just couldn't get into Ferrari's, the whole driver base seems to take after his snobbery.  I always thought it was amusing that Lamborghini created is company largely just to show the guy up.   

[GCrites]

I thought it was funny that Lamborghini's entry into the car market centered around problems with Ferrari clutches but then Lamborghini clutches turned out to be terrible.

One day if I'm ever stupid rich I wouldn't mind having a modern Lamborghini tractor shipped over for use at our farm. We don't own our own equipment since the farm is too small to make it economically feasible (357 tilled acres), but it sure would be fun to say "Let the Lamborghini handle this" or say "Hey. Take the Lamborghini" to our farmers. Of course this is until something breaks. I don't know if a U.S. Lamborghini car dealer can get tractor parts or not. Also the farmers wouldn't feel like moving all of their GPS, seed population, fertilizer control devices etc. over to the Lamborghini. Who knows if they would even integrate with the steering control.

[Max Rockatansky]

I thought it was funny that Lamborghini's entry into the car market centered around problems with Ferrari clutches but then Lamborghini clutches turned out to be terrible.

Either way I find both brands to be completely forgettable....them all all the high-end super cars or uber luxury brands.  It just feels there is no room to improve the car or really make it yours.  At MINIMUM you can still build out something like a 911, Corvette, GT-R or other vehicles just a notch below super car territory that will blow the doors off any of them stock.  About the only supercar that bothered to break the mold at all the last couple decades that I can think of off the top of my head was the Veyron....well the 918 also.

[GCrites]

I read an article about John Carmack's (maker of the Doom game) efforts to turbo his Testarossa and F50. It sounded like a total nightmare.

[Max Rockatansky]

This one?

Man those guys at Id must have made some stupid money over the years with all that credibility they got from Doom.  John Romero basically screwed himself over with that Daikatana abortion.  I still play vanilla Doom and Brutal Doom on a regular....I prefer good old vanilla since I can use my keyboard exclusively which works great for a lap top.

[GCrites]

Ugh, the street. You can't do ANYTHING. At least he had enough cash that he could IDDQD the things when they acted up.

[Max Rockatansky]

Ugh, the street. You can't do ANYTHING. At least he had enough cash that he could IDDQD the things when they acted up.

That and IDCLIP....I'm just surprised that I found anything with his car at all.

[Max Rockatansky]

For when you are feeling "festive" but don't want an actually party:

[Ned Weasel]

For when you are feeling "festive" but don't want an actually party:

At least Festiva was a better name than Fiesta.  It's basically the difference between putting a modest effort into choosing a fairly creative name, and just picking a Spanish word that everyone knows.

On the topic of Ford car names, who here has heard of the Ford Ka?  What is that supposed to be, the sound a Falcon makes?

[Max Rockatansky]

For when you are feeling "festive" but don't want an actually party:

At least Festiva was a better name than Fiesta.  It's basically the difference between putting a modest effort into choosing a fairly creative name, and just picking a Spanish word that everyone knows.

On the topic of Ford car names, who here has heard of the Ford Ka?  What is that supposed to be, the sound a Falcon makes?

Having never bothered to research the entomology of "Ka" I would just got and say that to me it just sounds like how someone in Boston would say "car."   They could have called the Fiesta the Ford Party and had the hatch back version be the "Party Wagon?"   I always though Fiesta was pretty girly sounding for a car name. But then again what is an Aveo, Yaris, and Versa?

[Max Rockatansky]

Rather than trying to explain this....apparently this is the scope behind the "Ka" in Ford Ka:

https://petroleumvitae.com/2011/04/19/ka-rant-not-are-ay-en-tee/

[cpzilliacus]

Rather than trying to explain this....apparently this is the scope behind the "Ka" in Ford Ka:

https://petroleumvitae.com/2011/04/19/ka-rant-not-are-ay-en-tee/

I always like the name Ford Mondeo, though I am not aware of the Blue Oval selling under name in the United States or Canada (the Mondeo has been sold under names like Fusion, Ford Contour and Mercury Mystique in North America).

[Max Rockatansky]

Rather than trying to explain this....apparently this is the scope behind the "Ka" in Ford Ka:

https://petroleumvitae.com/2011/04/19/ka-rant-not-are-ay-en-tee/

I always like the name Ford Mondeo, though I am not aware of the Blue Oval selling under name in the United States or Canada (the Mondeo has been sold under names like Fusion, Ford Contour and Mercury Mystique in North America).

At least Contour was better sounding than Probe and Escort.  For awhile there the Ford lineup sounded like the line menu at a brothel.

[7/8]

Rather than trying to explain this....apparently this is the scope behind the "Ka" in Ford Ka:

https://petroleumvitae.com/2011/04/19/ka-rant-not-are-ay-en-tee/

I always like the name Ford Mondeo, though I am not aware of the Blue Oval selling under name in the United States or Canada (the Mondeo has been sold under names like Fusion, Ford Contour and Mercury Mystique in North America).

At least Contour was better sounding than Probe and Escort.  For awhile there the Ford lineup sounded like the line menu at a brothel.

LOL, that reminds of The Office (U.S. TV show), when Michael Scott tells this joke:

First guy says "Well, I'm an astronaut, so I drive a Saturn". And the second guy says, "Well, I am a pimp, so I drive a cheap Escort". And the third guy says "I gotcha both beat, I'm a proctologist, so I drive a brown Probe".

[Max Rockatansky]

http://www.complex.com/sports/2012/07/the-25-most-ridiculous-car-names-of-all-time/daihatsu-naked

Some of my favorites include:

-  Light Dump
-  Titan Dump
-  Homey Super Long
-  Scat

[Henry]

LeCar, P'up, Probe and Quattroporte I'm familiar with, but the rest are forgettable to me. Although that Mazda Titan Dump makes an interesting case, because the first thing that came to mind was, shouldn't that be a Nissan (as the Titan is that brand's large truck)?