NC is requesting I-36 for US 70 East Corridor and I-89 for RDU to Norfolk corr

[LM117]

How long does it usually take AASHTO to post their PDF binder of approvals and/or rejections once their meetings are done and over with? I was surprised they put up their list of applications this early.

It may depend on the decisions the Committee makes. Given that NCDOT went to much effort to publicize the placement of a blank Future Interstate corridor sign on US 70, you would expect them to post a news release very quickly if AASHTO approves at least one of the two numbers. If not, it may be, as Froggie noted, a week or two before AASHTO posts their decisions.

I think you're right. I highly doubt NCDOT would keep it a secret if I-36 and/or I-89 got approved. Super 70 Corridor Commission's next meeting is May 26 in New Bern. They might get the news then and if NCDOT doesn't announce it first, there's a good chance one of the Commission members will. FHWA usually takes a lot longer, I believe.

[hbelkins]

WV stopped being interested when the FHWA wouldn't let the coal miners grade the road

West Virginia never intended on building the route as a freeway. They were always building as a surface route four-lane expressway rather than a full freeway.

And I don't think it was FHWA that stopped the public-private partnership wherein coal companies were building the grade and drain. SP Cook may have more details, but I seem to remember that it was an adverse court ruling in a lawsuit filed over prevailing wage requirements for highway contractors, or something similar.

[slorydn1]

How long does it usually take AASHTO to post their PDF binder of approvals and/or rejections once their meetings are done and over with? I was surprised they put up their list of applications this early.

It may depend on the decisions the Committee makes. Given that NCDOT went to much effort to publicize the placement of a blank Future Interstate corridor sign on US 70, you would expect them to post a news release very quickly if AASHTO approves at least one of the two numbers. If not, it may be, as Froggie noted, a week or two before AASHTO posts their decisions.

I think you're right. I highly doubt NCDOT would keep it a secret if I-36 and/or I-89 got approved. Super 70 Corridor Commission's next meeting is May 26 in New Bern. They might get the news then and if NCDOT doesn't announce it first, there's a good chance one of the Commission members will. FHWA usually takes a lot longer, I believe.

Wouldn't you know it...they're gonna have the meeting right here and I'm gonna be out of town on vacation <facepalm>

[Gnutella]

I'm beginning to believe that a comprehensive renumbering of the Interstate Highway system is necessary. I-39 and I-43 should not be east of I-49, I-26 should not be used on a north/south Interstate, and Congress should butt out of the numbering process once and for all. One other change I'd make is to have 3DI Interstates beginning with '1' classified as short-distance primary routes. For example, I-99 could be renumbered as I-170 or I-176. Using that approach, a Raleigh/Norfolk Interstate could be numbered as I-140 or I-195.

[Thing 342]

I'm beginning to believe that a comprehensive renumbering of the Interstate Highway system is necessary. I-39 and I-43 should not be east of I-49, I-26 should not be used on a north/south Interstate, and Congress should butt out of the numbering process once and for all. One other change I'd make is to have 3DI Interstates beginning with '1' classified as short-distance primary routes. For example, I-99 could be renumbered as I-170 or I-176. Using that approach, a Raleigh/Norfolk Interstate could be numbered as I-140 or I-195.

No, it isn't. It would involve spending a massive amount of money just to make a few internet neckbeards happy.

Nexus 6P

[The Ghostbuster]

The Interstate Highway numbering system may be screwed up, but its too late to do anything about it (except in Fictional Highways).

[wdcrft63]

Now that we've all decided what numbers these roads should have, let's look at whether NC is actually going to build these interstate highways anytime soon. I've been studying the STIP and STIP Amendments, and this is what I see.

I-36: A big piece of this highway, the Goldsboro Bypass, is nearly complete; it should open within a few weeks, and it meets interstate standards. There's also some work underway near Pine Level to replace several intersections on US 70 with interchanges, although I don't believe this project is bringing the road all the way to interstate standards.

The next project will be the Havelock Bypass (10 miles), scheduled for construction starting in fiscal 2018. In fiscal 2020, there's a project to bring several miles of the Wilson's Mills Bypass to freeway status with two new interchanges. In fiscal 2023 there's a project to build the freeway through James City, the town across the Trent River from New Bern. The remaining section from James City to Havelock is scheduled for right of way acquisition starting in 2025, so construction is probably considered for around 2027.

This is the North Carolina Way: a project here and another one there, keep moving the dirt and pouring the concrete, and eventually we have a road. The next big project would be the Kinston Bypass, with construction around 2030. Bottom line: I-36 will get built, but don't plan to drive all of it before 2040.

I-89: Don't hold your breath for work on this one. There are zero projects scheduled for upgrading the US 64 freeway between Raleigh and Williamston. The first project scheduled for US 17 is upgrading the existing Edenton Bypass to interstate standards, and that isn't scheduled for construction until fiscal 2025. So nothing will be done on I-89 for the next nine years.

[CanesFan27]

Now that we've all decided what numbers these roads should have, let's look at whether NC is actually going to build these interstate highways anytime soon. I've been studying the STIP and STIP Amendments, and this is what I see.

I-36: A big piece of this highway, the Goldsboro Bypass, is nearly complete; it should open within a few weeks, and it meets interstate standards. There's also some work underway near Pine Level to replace several intersections on US 70 with interchanges, although I don't believe this project is bringing the road all the way to interstate standards.

The next project will be the Havelock Bypass (10 miles), scheduled for construction starting in fiscal 2018. In fiscal 2020, there's a project to bring several miles of the Wilson's Mills Bypass to freeway status with two new interchanges. In fiscal 2023 there's a project to build the freeway through James City, the town across the Trent River from New Bern. The remaining section from James City to Havelock is scheduled for right of way acquisition starting in 2025, so construction is probably considered for around 2027.

This is the North Carolina Way: a project here and another one there, keep moving the dirt and pouring the concrete, and eventually we have a road. The next big project would be the Kinston Bypass, with construction around 2030. Bottom line: I-36 will get built, but don't plan to drive all of it before 2040.

I-89: Don't hold your breath for work on this one. There are zero projects scheduled for upgrading the US 64 freeway between Raleigh and Williamston. The first project scheduled for US 17 is upgrading the existing Edenton Bypass to interstate standards, and that isn't scheduled for construction until fiscal 2025. So nothing will be done on I-89 for the next nine years.

This can change - a number of projects throughout the state were bumped up as a result of the changes to the funding program.  Also as discussed in southeast roads on Facebook.  64 is interstate standard east of Tarboro (to Williamston).  It's conceivably possible that funds could be found to upgrade the shoulders on 64 from 95 to Tarboro.  89 or whatever number is chosen can then be applied.

[LM117]

NCDOT also has the section of US-70 from the western end of the Goldsboro Bypass to Edwards Road just across the Johnston County line near Princeton on their radar. This feasibility study is from November 2015.

https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_1204A_Report_2015.pdf

PS: For future reference, do we post updates on construction projects involving these two corridors here or on the main North Carolina thread? 

[wdcrft63]

This can change - a number of projects throughout the state were bumped up as a result of the changes to the funding program.  Also as discussed in southeast roads on Facebook.  64 is interstate standard east of Tarboro (to Williamston).  It's conceivably possible that funds could be found to upgrade the shoulders on 64 from 95 to Tarboro.  89 or whatever number is chosen can then be applied.

That's true, and the interstate designation is helpful in that regard. When shields go up and there are gaps, there's pressure to fill those gaps. However, it's hard to accelerate the planned schedule very much; the recent STIP amendments moved a number of projects up, but only by a year or two.

[slorydn1]

Now that we've all decided what numbers these roads should have, let's look at whether NC is actually going to build these interstate highways anytime soon. I've been studying the STIP and STIP Amendments, and this is what I see.

I-36: A big piece of this highway, the Goldsboro Bypass, is nearly complete; it should open within a few weeks, and it meets interstate standards. There's also some work underway near Pine Level to replace several intersections on US 70 with interchanges, although I don't believe this project is bringing the road all the way to interstate standards.

The next project will be the Havelock Bypass (10 miles), scheduled for construction starting in fiscal 2018. In fiscal 2020, there's a project to bring several miles of the Wilson's Mills Bypass to freeway status with two new interchanges. In fiscal 2023 there's a project to build the freeway through James City, the town across the Trent River from New Bern. The remaining section from James City to Havelock is scheduled for right of way acquisition starting in 2025, so construction is probably considered for around 2027.

This is the North Carolina Way: a project here and another one there, keep moving the dirt and pouring the concrete, and eventually we have a road. The next big project would be the Kinston Bypass, with construction around 2030. Bottom line: I-36 will get built, but don't plan to drive all of it before 2040.

I-89: Don't hold your breath for work on this one. There are zero projects scheduled for upgrading the US 64 freeway between Raleigh and Williamston. The first project scheduled for US 17 is upgrading the existing Edenton Bypass to interstate standards, and that isn't scheduled for construction until fiscal 2025. So nothing will be done on I-89 for the next nine years.

I believe your assessment is pretty much spot-on. Besides the projects you mentioned we also already have a 70 mph facility between SR 1005 in Jones County and the Freedom Memorial Bridge in New Bern (only the last 3 miles or so is 55 mph) that wouldn't need much work to be interstate standard (really all that's needed is slightly wider shoulders and a redesigned Pembroke Rd interchange eastbound) that has been in place since the mid 70's. I think a 25 year corridor completion window for "I-36" is a definite possibility-may be less if they can ever figure out what they are going to do with the Kinston Bypass.

I also second your assessment on "I-89". I haven't seen or heard much discussed on it locally, not that I have done the research that you have done. There just doesn't seem to be any real push to get the ball rolling. Maybe the new designation will kick-start some projects that haven't been announced yet.

[LM117]

Now that we've all decided what numbers these roads should have, let's look at whether NC is actually going to build these interstate highways anytime soon. I've been studying the STIP and STIP Amendments, and this is what I see.

I-36: A big piece of this highway, the Goldsboro Bypass, is nearly complete; it should open within a few weeks, and it meets interstate standards. There's also some work underway near Pine Level to replace several intersections on US 70 with interchanges, although I don't believe this project is bringing the road all the way to interstate standards.

The next project will be the Havelock Bypass (10 miles), scheduled for construction starting in fiscal 2018. In fiscal 2020, there's a project to bring several miles of the Wilson's Mills Bypass to freeway status with two new interchanges. In fiscal 2023 there's a project to build the freeway through James City, the town across the Trent River from New Bern. The remaining section from James City to Havelock is scheduled for right of way acquisition starting in 2025, so construction is probably considered for around 2027.

This is the North Carolina Way: a project here and another one there, keep moving the dirt and pouring the concrete, and eventually we have a road. The next big project would be the Kinston Bypass, with construction around 2030. Bottom line: I-36 will get built, but don't plan to drive all of it before 2040.

I-89: Don't hold your breath for work on this one. There are zero projects scheduled for upgrading the US 64 freeway between Raleigh and Williamston. The first project scheduled for US 17 is upgrading the existing Edenton Bypass to interstate standards, and that isn't scheduled for construction until fiscal 2025. So nothing will be done on I-89 for the next nine years.

I believe your assessment is pretty much spot-on. Besides the projects you mentioned we also already have a 70 mph facility between SR 1005 in Jones County and the Freedom Memorial Bridge in New Bern (only the last 3 miles or so is 55 mph) that wouldn't need much work to be interstate standard (really all that's needed is slightly wider shoulders and a redesigned Pembroke Rd interchange eastbound) that has been in place since the mid 70's. I think a 25 year corridor completion window for "I-36" is a definite possibility-may be less if they can ever figure out what they are going to do with the Kinston Bypass.

I also second your assessment on "I-89". I haven't seen or heard much discussed on it locally, not that I have done the research that you have done. There just doesn't seem to be any real push to get the ball rolling. Maybe the new designation will kick-start some projects that haven't been announced yet.

I'm guessing the freeway section of US-70 from Dover to New Bern will probably be the last section to get upgraded since it wouldn't take much work. NCDOT seems to be tackling the tougher spots first. The northern alternatives for the Kinston Bypass have been eliminated but that's the only development there that I know of. I-36 will likely be finished long before I-89 is even halfway done, especially since Virginia will have to build their part and if I-73 in VA is any indication, I-89 will be dormant for a long time, IMO.

[WashuOtaku]

I'm guessing the freeway section of US-70 from Dover to New Bern will probably be the last section to get upgraded since it wouldn't take much work. NCDOT seems to be tackling the tougher spots first. The northern alternatives for the Kinston Bypass have been eliminated but that's the only development there that I know of. I-36 will likely be finished long before I-89 is even halfway done, especially since Virginia will have to build their part and if I-73 in VA is any indication, I-89 will be dormant for a long time, IMO.

I agree the US 70 corridor will be completed before the US 64-US 17 corridor.  However, I do not think it would take Virginia much time to build their section since they have been upgrading US 17 there to toll roads; they can easily slap an interstate on it, assuming in 30 years it will no longer be a toll road.

[WillWeaverRVA]

I'm guessing the freeway section of US-70 from Dover to New Bern will probably be the last section to get upgraded since it wouldn't take much work. NCDOT seems to be tackling the tougher spots first. The northern alternatives for the Kinston Bypass have been eliminated but that's the only development there that I know of. I-36 will likely be finished long before I-89 is even halfway done, especially since Virginia will have to build their part and if I-73 in VA is any indication, I-89 will be dormant for a long time, IMO.

I agree the US 70 corridor will be completed before the US 64-US 17 corridor.  However, I do not think it would take Virginia much time to build their section since they have been upgrading US 17 there to toll roads; they can easily slap an interstate on it, assuming in 30 years it will no longer be a toll road.

US 17 or VA 168? Last I checked the only tolled portions of US 17 in Virginia under consideration were bridges.

[froggie]

However, I do not think it would take Virginia much time to build their section since they have been upgrading US 17 there to toll roads; they can easily slap an interstate on it, assuming in 30 years it will no longer be a toll road.

This is incorrect.  Virginia (Chesapeake in particular) is only building their portion to a freeway-grade toll facility from VA 165/Cedar Rd north.  South of VA 165/Cedar Rd to the state line is and will remain at-grade with intersections.  That's about 13-14 miles that'll require frontage roads, bridges, and interchanges (much of it adjacent to swampland, so wetlands impacts).  So there is no ease in "slapping an Interstate on it" like you suggest.

[Thing 342]

In addition, most of the the Chesapeake Expressway (VA-168 freeway) is not up to interstate standards (at least north of Hillcrest Pkwy, not sure about the tolled portion) and would require a considerable amount of work to upgrade.

[froggie]

VA 168 is a moot point here, because you'd need some sort of new roadway to get the proposed Raleigh-Norfolk corridor over to 168 to begin with.

[LM117]

VA 168 is a moot point here, because you'd need some sort of new roadway to get the proposed Raleigh-Norfolk corridor over to 168 to begin with.

Not to mention a new highway connecting US-17 and VA-168 would likely face stiff opposition and lawsuits from environmental groups since it would go through sensitive wetlands, if I'm not mistaken.

[Henry]

I can see I-36 get completed long before I-89 does.

[The Ghostbuster]

Maybe the entire existing future 89 corridor should be 495, until more upgrades are made to the corridor. I'd wait until there is some freeway in Virginia along future 89 before giving the entire corridor that number.

[WashuOtaku]

Maybe the entire existing future 89 corridor should be 495, until more upgrades are made to the corridor. I'd wait until there is some freeway in Virginia along future 89 before giving the entire corridor that number.

Why should they wait till all is completed?  The interstate system didn't do that when it was under construction for the 30+ years.  When a section was ready, it was signed and good to go.  You are just experiencing the benefits of a mostly completed system and not use to the piece-meal method these systems take. 

Heck, look at other nations that have freeway systems and you will see gaps in them too.

[kkt]

Maybe the entire existing future 89 corridor should be 495, until more upgrades are made to the corridor. I'd wait until there is some freeway in Virginia along future 89 before giving the entire corridor that number.

Why should they wait till all is completed?  The interstate system didn't do that when it was under construction for the 30+ years.  When a section was ready, it was signed and good to go.  You are just experiencing the benefits of a mostly completed system and not use to the piece-meal method these systems take. 

Heck, look at other nations that have freeway systems and you will see gaps in them too.

Because there was less room for doubt that all the segments would be completed, in some form.  At least the construction funding was pretty much settled.

[CanesFan27]

I-89: Don't hold your breath for work on this one. There are zero projects scheduled for upgrading the US 64 freeway between Raleigh and Williamston. The first project scheduled for US 17 is upgrading the existing Edenton Bypass to interstate standards, and that isn't scheduled for construction until fiscal 2025. So nothing will be done on I-89 for the next nine years.

I believe your assessment is pretty much spot-on. Besides the projects you mentioned we also already have a 70 mph facility between SR 1005 in Jones County and the Freedom Memorial Bridge in New Bern (only the last 3 miles or so is 55 mph) that wouldn't need much work to be interstate standard (really all that's needed is slightly wider shoulders and a redesigned Pembroke Rd interchange eastbound) that has been in place since the mid 70's. I think a 25 year corridor completion window for "I-36" is a definite possibility-may be less if they can ever figure out what they are going to do with the Kinston Bypass.

I also second your assessment on "I-89". I haven't seen or heard much discussed on it locally, not that I have done the research that you have done. There just doesn't seem to be any real push to get the ball rolling. Maybe the new designation will kick-start some projects that haven't been announced yet.

Don't forget that a sizable section of "89" is a completed  freeway.  64 from Raleigh to Williamston is freeway.  So there's not a push to build a freeway as there was 15-25 years ago when they were finishing 64 east of Tarboro.  Yes, there's upgrading to Interstate standards to be done.   But a lot of the groundwork has been done. 

[Henry]

FWIW, I-495 can't be extended into VA anyway, because that number is already in use in the northern part of the state. So it's just as well that I-89 end at the border until something north of there can be figured out.

[The Ghostbuster]

I didn't mean extend 495 into Virginia (it can't be done as you point out), I only meant to extend the 495 designation to where US 64 exits US 13/17 around Williamston.