NC is requesting I-36 for US 70 East Corridor and I-89 for RDU to Norfolk corr

[Jmiles32]

There's gotta be some sort of secret way long term plan to connect the I-87s, no way AASHTO just randomly picks stuff like NC does. I would have preferred I-50 but if it had to be north/south I would have done I-97 and replaced finally that stupid little 17 mile thing in Maryland.

[froggie]

There's gotta be some sort of secret way long term plan to connect the I-87s, no way AASHTO just randomly picks stuff like NC does.

There isn't.  About a decade ago, VDOT studied the idea of a Delmarva Interstate that also extended down the coast into South Carolina.  What they found amongst both themselves and the other states was a mix of a lack of funding, a lack of interest, and higher priorities elsewhere in those states, so they dropped the idea.  While it's clear that NCDOT has interest in an Interstate, given their request for an Interstate number, it's clear that even they don't have the funding to do anything about it in the next couple decades.

[WashuOtaku]

There's gotta be some sort of secret way long term plan to connect the I-87s, no way AASHTO just randomly picks stuff like NC does.

There isn't.  About a decade ago, VDOT studied the idea of a Delmarva Interstate that also extended down the coast into South Carolina.  What they found amongst both themselves and the other states was a mix of a lack of funding, a lack of interest, and higher priorities elsewhere in those states, so they dropped the idea.  While it's clear that NCDOT has interest in an Interstate, given their request for an Interstate number, it's clear that even they don't have the funding to do anything about it in the next couple decades.

They have interest and we will likely see I-87 shields up by Christmas.  The entire corridor may not be ready, but several sections are.

[CanesFan27]

Breaking news: it's I-42, not I-36, and I-87, not I-89.

Raleigh, N.C. – North Carolina has received approval for the names of two new interstate route designations in the eastern part of the state. The American Association of State and Transportation Officials approved I-42 for the U.S. 70 Corridor between I-40 and Morehead City, and I-87 for U.S. 64/17 between Raleigh and the Virginia state line.

"These connections are an integral part of my 25-Year Vision for North Carolina to improve the state's infrastructure, expand economic opportunities and create jobs,"  says Governor Pat McCrory. "They bring a much-needed interstate corridor to the Hampton Roads area, stronger connections between our important military bases, and enhance economic development through faster shipment of freight for our ports and Global TransPark."

The N.C. Department of Transportation may now proceed with determining where "Future I-42"  and "Future I-87"  signs should be installed and pursue approval to install those signs from the Federal Highway Administration.

https://apps.ncdot.gov/NewsReleases/details.aspx?r=12558

Well this could explain why the website 4042.com is no more :-p

http://johnstoncounty.today/4042-com-domain-name-please-update-old-links-and-bookmarks

In all seriousness, NC 42 is the first/last (depending on travel direction) on the new I-42 and it is the exit immediately before/after the soon to be 40 and I-42 interchange.  Maybe NC 42 will become NC 36.

Kinda surprised that they picked 87 (may as well keep 89) but wouldn't it be fitting if I-87 was a typo and it's still I-89.

My wife suggested we claim 4242.com not a bad idea

[kinupanda]

Given that Interstate 42 has been designated on Towel Day, I think a petition to name it the Douglas Adams Freeway is appropriate.

[LM117]

Fuck AASHTO for duplicating I-87.  That should be an east-west interstate in any case.

We stole your interstate. Herp derp.

[paulthemapguy]

So in my grand scheme, I-87 gets extended down the Garden State Parkway to Cape May...would this possibly be part of a grand plan to connect to the original I-87 via crossings of the Chesapeake and Delaware Bays?  Would it be viable to have an Interstate cross a waterway by ferry?  Kind of pie-in-the-sky, but I thought I'd throw the idea out there.  This loooooong stretch of an idea is my ONLY desperate attempt to make sense of selecting the number 87.  Otherwise I echo the sentiment of "Fuck AASHTO etc etc."  Then again, US17 fails by a longshot to fit the grid.  Maybe they said "ah fuck it.  We'll adopt the same leniency that allowed US17 to exist."

Edit: So apparently this idea has been suggested already.  But I still beg the question, are ferry crossings for an Interstate okay or not okay?

[CanesFan27]

There's gotta be some sort of secret way long term plan to connect the I-87s, no way AASHTO just randomly picks stuff like NC does.

There isn't.  About a decade ago, VDOT studied the idea of a Delmarva Interstate that also extended down the coast into South Carolina.  What they found amongst both themselves and the other states was a mix of a lack of funding, a lack of interest, and higher priorities elsewhere in those states, so they dropped the idea.  While it's clear that NCDOT has interest in an Interstate, given their request for an Interstate number, it's clear that even they don't have the funding to do anything about it in the next couple decades.

Yes and no - there are some standard segments already. And there are plans to upgrade a section of 17 around Edenton to interstate standards in the current STIP. wdcrft63 can correct me on where on 17 if I am incorrect with Edenton. 

The key is in the next STIP and if continued accelerated funding sources change thugs further.

[oscar]

Edit: So apparently this idea has been suggested already.  But I still beg the question, are ferry crossings for an Interstate okay or not okay?

Precedent both ways:

-- Most recently, AASHTO approved addition of the ferry crossing of Lake Michigan to US 10, to connect the existing segments in MI and WI.

-- in 1960, the Bureau of Public Roads (now FHWA) blew off a request by Alaska, when it became a state, for an Interstate route consisting of the mainline Inside Passage ferry route through the southeast panhandle. Unlike conventional Interstate proposals elsewhere in the state, which got analyzed and scored on a 100-point scale (cut line was 90, no proposed route scored higher than the mid-80s, and the silliest one got only 22), BPR treated the proposed liquid Interstate as totally unworthy of discussion.

[wdcrft63]

Yes and no - there are some standard segments already. And there are plans to upgrade a section of 17 around Edenton to interstate standards in the current STIP. wdcrft63 can correct me on where on 17 if I am incorrect with Edenton. 

The key is in the next STIP and if continued accelerated funding sources change thugs further.

That's correct. NCDOT has a feasibility study going that will identify options for the creation of the new interstate. That's the first step toward getting projects into future STIPs.

[sparker]

If my understanding of procedure is correct, these designations will be forwarded to FHWA for final approval.  Assuming they're not particularly inclined to "rubber-stamp" the AASHTO decisions, there's always a glimmer that they would rather see an even number applied to the RDU-Norfolk corridor.  I certainly wouldn't bet big $$ on it...but 46 through 56 could conceivably be back in play before the year is out.  Nevertheless, like other posters, I'll bet NCDOT is not too happy about either number; and, yes, it repudiates their "internal-considerations-first" rationale.  Six months ago I would have placed money on 42/46 being the selections; I guess batting .500 isn't too hard to take.

It's interesting to note that for the last five years running one previously unused Interstate trunk designation (if not full deployment or signage) has been forthcoming each year:  2012, I-11; 2013, I-2; 2014, I-41; 2015, I-14; 2016, I-42.  Since all seem to have come about by the concerted efforts of local interest groups and the politicos tethered to those groups, I for one would be curious to see if regional entities in other parts of the country would be, for better or worse, encouraged or even empowered by this seeming continuum -- and similar corridor proposals (particularly in states that have tacitly acceded to the will of these groups) might be  a regular occurrence over the next decade or so.  In any event, it might be of interest to do a bit of analysis and project just where 2017's and 2018's proposals will manifest themselves (not that the contributors on this board don't do more than their share of that already!).     

[LM117]

If my understanding of procedure is correct, these designations will be forwarded to FHWA for final approval.  Assuming they're not particularly inclined to "rubber-stamp" the AASHTO decisions, there's always a glimmer that they would rather see an even number applied to the RDU-Norfolk corridor.  I certainly wouldn't bet big $$ on it...but 46 through 56 could conceivably be back in play before the year is out.  Nevertheless, like other posters, I'll bet NCDOT is not too happy about either number; and, yes, it repudiates their "internal-considerations-first" rationale.

FHWA usually goes along with AASHTO, so I'm fairly certain I-42 and I-87 are here to stay. If NCDOT is unhappy with the numbers they were given, then they need to get over it, though I think they're happy just to have numbers to put on the I-shields. AASHTO made the right call with I-42. NCDOT should've realized I-36 would get rejected since it's out of grid. Not one of their brightest moments, even if their reasoning was understandable. I'm not thrilled with the Raleigh-Norfolk corridor being a north-south route, whether it's I-87 or I-89, but what's done is done. NCDOT will probably send more applications to AASHTO and FHWA this fall to get I-42 posted on the Clayton and Goldsboro bypasses and I-87 on the Knightdale bypass. They'll also (hopefully) try to get I-495 and the part of I-440 that I-87 is planned to use decommissioned while they're at it. It's fitting that US-70 gets an I-4x since I-40 was originally proposed to follow US-70 to Morehead City before it was changed to Wilmington.

[kkt]

I wish AASHTO would be less eager to approve interstate numbers for routes that aren't likely to be completed to interstate standard within a reasonable time.  Say, a decade or so.

[WashuOtaku]

FHWA usually goes along with AASHTO, so I'm fairly certain I-42 and I-87 are here to stay. If NCDOT is unhappy with the numbers they were given, then they need to get over it, though I think they're happy just to have numbers to put on the I-shields. AASHTO made the right call with I-42. NCDOT should've realized I-36 would get rejected since it's out of grid. Not one of their brightest moments, even if their reasoning was understandable. I'm not thrilled with the Raleigh-Norfolk corridor being a north-south route, whether it's I-87 or I-89, but what's done is done. NCDOT will probably send more applications to AASHTO and FHWA this fall to get I-42 posted on the Clayton and Goldsboro bypasses and I-87 on the Knightdale bypass. They'll also (hopefully) try to get I-495 and the part of I-440 that I-87 is planned to use decommissioned while they're at it. It's fitting that US-70 gets an I-4x since I-40 was originally proposed to follow US-70 to Morehead City before it was changed to Wilmington.

I hear that from some road geeks that the original routing of I-40 was to Morehead City.  But, I rewrote the I-40 NC history section on wikipedia and none of the research I pulled actually says that.  If you, or anyone else, has references that back that up, I would like to see them so I can incorporate it on the page.

[WashuOtaku]

I wish AASHTO would be less eager to approve interstate numbers for routes that aren't likely to be completed to interstate standard within a reasonable time.  Say, a decade or so.

Why? 

I say this because the original interstates were proposed and took well over 30 years to complete most of them.  Why change the standard now?  Interstates were not built overnight then and they will not be in the future either.

[LM117]

FHWA usually goes along with AASHTO, so I'm fairly certain I-42 and I-87 are here to stay. If NCDOT is unhappy with the numbers they were given, then they need to get over it, though I think they're happy just to have numbers to put on the I-shields. AASHTO made the right call with I-42. NCDOT should've realized I-36 would get rejected since it's out of grid. Not one of their brightest moments, even if their reasoning was understandable. I'm not thrilled with the Raleigh-Norfolk corridor being a north-south route, whether it's I-87 or I-89, but what's done is done. NCDOT will probably send more applications to AASHTO and FHWA this fall to get I-42 posted on the Clayton and Goldsboro bypasses and I-87 on the Knightdale bypass. They'll also (hopefully) try to get I-495 and the part of I-440 that I-87 is planned to use decommissioned while they're at it. It's fitting that US-70 gets an I-4x since I-40 was originally proposed to follow US-70 to Morehead City before it was changed to Wilmington.

I hear that from some road geeks that the original routing of I-40 was to Morehead City.  But, I rewrote the I-40 NC history section on wikipedia and none of the research I pulled actually says that.  If you, or anyone else, has references that back that up, I would like to see them so I can incorporate it on the page.

I've only read it on this page. I couldn't find it anywhere else. 

http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-040.html

An original Interstate highway, Interstate 40 was initially slated to end at its junction with Interstate 85 in Greensboro until 1968, when its route was extended eastward to Interstate 95. There was some difficulty in determining which route Interstate 40 would ultimately take. At first, the state petitioned for the Interstate 40 freeway to follow U.S. 70 from Raleigh-Durham east to Morehead City in 1962. Although that plan was rejected, U.S. 70 has gradually been upgraded to freeway and expressway standards from 2000 onward.

[sparker]

In the 1968 Interstate addition legislation, I-40 was slated to depart from I-85 near Durham, just as it exists today, but the eastern terminus was to be I-95 at the US 70 junction near Selma.  Curiously, the Gousha maps of that era showed a proposed freeway (originally shown as a dotted line but undesignated) from I-95 near Benson south along what is now the I-40 extension generally following NC 50 and US 117 -- all the way to Wilmington.  While the Durham-Raleigh routing was retained, eventually I-40 was rerouted more or less along NC 50 south of Raleigh to Benson to connect to this route, with the whole corridor finally becoming I-40.  The only originally chargeable mileage per the 1968 legislation was west of I-95; the remainder was completed under NC state aegis.

[Mapmikey]

From Kurumi's website showing requests that were actually submitted by 1970.  Shows request to Morehead City though not explicitly as I-40:

[english si]

if you accept the notion that the US 64/17 corridor is north/south, then the grid says that I-87 is the best choice.

How is it better than I-89? Given that 90% of it will be east of I-95, a lower number is even worse!

If, and it's a big 'if', you accept that it's north-south, a number in the 90s would be the best fit.

[wdcrft63]

They'll also (hopefully) try to get I-495 and the part of I-440 that I-87 is planned to use decommissioned while they're at it.

I'm sure I-495 is dead now; the 495 shields already posted will be replaced by 87 shields. I'm not so sure that I-440 will be decommissioned on the overlap with I-87. Everyone calls that road "440." If it's decommissioned, the northbound side would still have to be signed "TO 440" and the southbound side "TO 40", so there's really nothing to be gained by decommissioning.

[CanesFan27]

FHWA usually goes along with AASHTO, so I'm fairly certain I-42 and I-87 are here to stay. If NCDOT is unhappy with the numbers they were given, then they need to get over it, though I think they're happy just to have numbers to put on the I-shields. AASHTO made the right call with I-42. NCDOT should've realized I-36 would get rejected since it's out of grid. Not one of their brightest moments, even if their reasoning was understandable. I'm not thrilled with the Raleigh-Norfolk corridor being a north-south route, whether it's I-87 or I-89, but what's done is done. NCDOT will probably send more applications to AASHTO and FHWA this fall to get I-42 posted on the Clayton and Goldsboro bypasses and I-87 on the Knightdale bypass. They'll also (hopefully) try to get I-495 and the part of I-440 that I-87 is planned to use decommissioned while they're at it. It's fitting that US-70 gets an I-4x since I-40 was originally proposed to follow US-70 to Morehead City before it was changed to Wilmington.

I hear that from some road geeks that the original routing of I-40 was to Morehead City.  But, I rewrote the I-40 NC history section on wikipedia and none of the research I pulled actually says that.  If you, or anyone else, has references that back that up, I would like to see them so I can incorporate it on the page.

I posted newspaper links about it awhile back

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=100.msg2045477#msg2045477

40 appeared headed to Morehead City but during the 70s it was pushed towards Wilmington.  The goal to have a four lane and a freeway to Morehead never changed though.

I never got around to updating this page http://www.gribblenation.com/ncpics/history/i40.html with the more detail on the Morehead to Wilmington debate and change in the late 70s.  Hence why I posted the links here (in case I never move it to the blog or update it).

[WashuOtaku]

They'll also (hopefully) try to get I-495 and the part of I-440 that I-87 is planned to use decommissioned while they're at it.

I'm sure I-495 is dead now; the 495 shields already posted will be replaced by 87 shields. I'm not so sure that I-440 will be decommissioned on the overlap with I-87. Everyone calls that road "440." If it's decommissioned, the northbound side would still have to be signed "TO 440" and the southbound side "TO 40", so there's really nothing to be gained by decommissioning.

Well, not yet.  NCDOT now got the numbers from AASHTO and needs them approved by FHWA.  I expect the Autumn AASHTO Meeting they will ask for I-495 to be replaced by I-87, as well as establishing I-42 along part(s) of US 70.

[JacobNC]

The major problem I have with the proposed I-87 -- and I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone in this thread bring it up -- is that it's utterly redundant.  No one would ever use this route to travel between Raleigh and Norfolk.  It's almost 30 miles longer than taking I-95/US-58.

If they really wanted to improve travel between Raleigh and Norfolk, upgrading US-58 east of Emporia would be the way to go.  Actually, an interstate from I-85 near the VA/NC state line all the way to Norfolk would give travelers a faster route between Norfolk and Durham, and Norfolk and Charlotte as well.  (The proposed I-87 would not, check out a map.)  Some of it would have to be on new location, but some of it could be built from the existing US 58 highway.  The problem is, Virginia would have to pay for this.

But this is a complete waste of money.  The largest city along the route between Rocky Mount and VA is Elizabeth City, pop. 18,000.  No reason to make an interstate that goes so far out of the way between point A and point B just to connect several tiny eastern NC towns.

[PHLBOS]

if you accept the notion that the US 64/17 corridor is north/south, then the grid says that I-87 is the best choice.

How is it better than I-89? Given that 90% of it will be east of I-95, a lower number is even worse!

If, and it's a big 'if', you accept that it's north-south, a number in the 90s would be the best fit.

Since 2dis are now being duplicated; why not use either I-97, 99 or even I-91 (if MD & PA get their panties in a wad about reusing their number for another corridor despite considerable separation)?

[LM117]

The major problem I have with the proposed I-87 -- and I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone in this thread bring it up -- is that it's utterly redundant.  No one would ever use this route to travel between Raleigh and Norfolk.  It's almost 30 miles longer than taking I-95/US-58.

True, but being able to avoid VA's infamous US-58 speed traps is an idea that I'm sure most people who have driven on US-58 (including myself) can get behind.